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Posted: 2/26/2006 3:04:15 PM EDT
Probably a dupe, BUT check out the vid on EGW's website.

www.egw-guns.com/

Damn fast
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:16:15 PM EDT
Hell I'd be that fast too if the bottom of my 1911 looked like the Holland Tunnel..

I'm not trying to sound negitive, but do that with a stock carry gun and I'm impressed.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:22:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:
Hell I'd be that fast too if the bottom of my 1911 looked like the Holland Tunnel..

I'm not trying to sound negitive, but do that with a stock carry gun and I'm impressed.



+1. not impressed with the space guns. Id like to see how he'd do with a SA GI with NO, ZERO, ZIP beveling at the magwell.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 4:29:54 PM EDT
That was sped up. Had to have been. Jerry Miculek is faster though
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:40:24 PM EDT
Saw this on 1911.com and thought it was bogus too, until I mentioned it to a guy that shoots w/ the AMU...that guy is from the AMU (notice BDUs hanging in film) and regularly does that speed w/ his box stock M9...FYI
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 2:47:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JEHalloranIV:
regularly does that speed w/ his box stock M9...FYI



Now someone show that and I'm impressed.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 10:11:14 PM EDT
Damn fast, but were was the tap on the bottom of the mag to make sure it's seated?
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 10:26:40 PM EDT
cool but then there's no one shooting back at him and other things like that, plus those mags are weighted on the bottom
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:46:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Damn fast, but were was the tap on the bottom of the mag to make sure it's seated?

uspsa does not = real life. Plus when your slamming mags in that fast and hard, its not only usually seated, it sometimes jars the gun so hard the slide releases on its own.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:00:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Damn fast, but were was the tap on the bottom of the mag to make sure it's seated?

uspsa does not = real life. Plus when your slamming mags in that fast and hard, its not only usually seated, it sometimes jars the gun so hard the slide releases on its own.



My Beretta did that and I didn't even have to slam the mag in. The odd thing was, it only did it with the Italian mags, not the USA made mags. Strange, but off topic. I'll be going now. MJD
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:09:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
uspsa does not = real life.



Thanks Capt. Obvious
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:36:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
uspsa does not = real life.



Thanks Capt. Obvious

Obvious to some, not to all
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:25:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:28:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TalonArms_M:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Damn fast, but were was the tap on the bottom of the mag to make sure it's seated?

uspsa does not = real life. Plus when your slamming mags in that fast and hard, its not only usually seated, it sometimes jars the gun so hard the slide releases on its own.



IPSC shooters do not usually shoot their guns dry.



Exactly.

I was waiting for somebody else to point this out to Dusty_C.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 2:01:15 PM EDT
It's not uncommon during a "local" USPSA match to see some great reloads. Sometimes it's impossible to see exactly what happened unless you can slow it down on film.

Single stack reloads "can" be just as fast but have a higher disaster factor.

"uspsa does not = real life." If and when speed and accuracy counts, I'll not take my chances against USPSA B's or better unless it is a game. There would be easier choices.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:15:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By TalonArms_M:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Damn fast, but were was the tap on the bottom of the mag to make sure it's seated?

uspsa does not = real life. Plus when your slamming mags in that fast and hard, its not only usually seated, it sometimes jars the gun so hard the slide releases on its own.



IPSC shooters do not usually shoot their guns dry.



Exactly.

I was waiting for somebody else to point this out to Dusty_C.


The better ones don't. Most do.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:17:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
Damn fast, but were was the tap on the bottom of the mag to make sure it's seated?


------------------------
VaD' wasn't quite sure if you were joking with this comment. My thoughts on the mattter are - In a fast reload, whether from slidelock or even an IPSC speed reload where the gun isn't "dry" one aims to complete the reload without the unneccessary extra step of tapping the bottom of the mag to make sure it's seated. If done properly, the mag will be seated completly and then action can proceed from there. Every once in awhile I'll see new shooters completing there reloads with this improper technique, usually learned from the television or a movie. I've even seen guys lose the mag during that fraction of a second that they remove their hand from contact with the bottom of the mag to tap it the rest of the way in. If there forefinger was indexed properly and a correct grasp was taken of the mag out of the pouch, along with the correct seating technique, a tap wouldn't be needed. If you're doing an administrative load, then sure, seat the mag and then pull down on the baseplate to check if it's seated. That will suffice.

EricO
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:26:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 7:27:12 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By EricO:
VaD' wasn't quite sure if you were joking with this comment. My thoughts on the mattter are - In a fast reload, whether from slidelock or even an IPSC speed reload where the gun isn't "dry" one aims to complete the reload without the unneccessary extra step of tapping the bottom of the mag to make sure it's seated. If done properly, the mag will be seated completly and then action can proceed from there. Every once in awhile I'll see new shooters completing there reloads with this improper technique, usually learned from the television or a movie. I've even seen guys lose the mag during that fraction of a second that they remove their hand from contact with the bottom of the mag to tap it the rest of the way in. If there forefinger was indexed properly and a correct grasp was taken of the mag out of the pouch, along with the correct seating technique, a tap wouldn't be needed. If you're doing an administrative load, then sure, seat the mag and then pull down on the baseplate to check if it's seated. That will suffice.

EricO



I'm not sure who taught you this, but it's not a technique I would use for defensive purposes. In my experience IPSC guys aren't real worried about the occasional mag falling out or weapon malfunction. They live in a different world than I do, and more power to them. Personally, I would rather make sure the mag is properly seated.

I shoot IPSC & IDPA but just for the fun of it.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:42:40 PM EDT
I enjoy IPSC as one way to have fun w/my 1911's. Everything changes when clock is going. Really has helped me work on weaknesses over the years and gives me better ideas of how to practice when I'm not shooting w/ a squad. Def. seen what does and does not work....

But I would not confine myself to standing in one certain box or pretending plywood is "hard cover" in case of defending loved ones...

Does anyone have any specific cases of someone having "IPSC flashback" where his/her training in an IPSC environment w/ their 1911 has led to them losing an actual gunfight??? I'm interested for my own education. Or what is better? I keep myself somewhat grounded, I rotate between several styles of limited and limited 10 1911's, the only opengun is for my girlfriend-she enjoys the dot and comp. She makes her hits and shoots fast, and our guns are always reliable.

I figure just showing up at range w/desire to mix it up and do well and burning up 100-300 rounds/week---I've seen gangbangers shoot, they miss when no one is shooting back.
My buddies at the range are making Alpha hits rapid fire while moving....
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 12:53:58 AM EDT
Neat, thanks for the linky.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:28:38 AM EDT
VaDinger, you wrote, " I'm not sure who taught you this, but it's not a technique I would use for defensive purposes. "
--------
VaDinger, this is interesting. I've taken instruction from a couple guys (I'll pm you with references), both LEO/Response team members/Chief firearms instructors for agencies and one is/was an adjutant Gunsite instructor and runs his own instruction company. They didn't teach incorporating a additional tap on the bottom of the mag after seating it. In fact, quite the opposite. Once the mag is indexed properly and inserted into the well you just run it right in and seat it firmly. I can't recall ever losing a mag while seating it. I can tell you this though. If I ran to slidelock in the middle of a fight and needed the next round as quick as I could I don't think I'd want to take the extra fraction of a second to tap the bottom of the mag before extending out towards the threat. It's not neccessary if the mag if the technique is done properly. I've seen more guys who do this two-stage thing lose their mags on the ground. They insert the mag, run it up into the well/grip about 3/4's of the way, then lose contact with the mag baseplate in their efforts to remove their hand and give a sharp tap to the bottom of the mag. They get into more trouble by trying to do it that way than if they learned the other way I think. I understand the neccessity for checking and such, but speed is of the essence. I've never heard of any instructor teaching a handgun reload where after inserting the mag there was a separate, and dedicated tap on the bottom of the mag. I've got no problem with that as an administrative load, or while chambering your first round at the beginning of a shift for LEO and CCW. Instructors out there, speak up please, I'd like to hear if this is popular, since I've never seen it advocated. What it all comes down to though is using what you're comfortable with, and successful with also.

Take care,
EricO


Link Posted: 3/24/2006 2:53:19 AM EDT
For the critics and naysayers re: Travis Tomasie's reload ...

Sure, the big mag well helps, especially if you're not 100% in line with the mag, but ...

Even with a single stack 1911 with no external mag well, I doubt if any of you could come close to his speed on a reload. It may not be AS fast as with his Limited gun, but it's going to be faster than any of us mere mortals could do. In fact, give him the stock 1911 and any of us an Open gun with an even bigger mag well than on his Limited gun and we still won't come close.

You can deny the usefulness all you want and dismiss it as a game technique as well. The thing is, he could slow down to where he's absolutely 100% "in real life" with a "real gun" and still be faster than we can do it.

The kid has natual talent, fast hands, and has practiced reloads probably hundreds of thousands of times. There are only a handful of people who are at that level, and they're all USPSA or IPSC shooters.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:10:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rhino_:
For the critics and naysayers re: Travis Tomasie's reload ...

Sure, the big mag well helps, especially if you're not 100% in line with the mag, but ...

Even with a single stack 1911 with no external mag well, I doubt if any of you could come close to his speed on a reload. It may not be AS fast as with his Limited gun, but it's going to be faster than any of us mere mortals could do. In fact, give him the stock 1911 and any of us an Open gun with an even bigger mag well than on his Limited gun and we still won't come close.

You can deny the usefulness all you want and dismiss it as a game technique as well. The thing is, he could slow down to where he's absolutely 100% "in real life" with a "real gun" and still be faster than we can do it.

The kid has natual talent, fast hands, and has practiced reloads probably hundreds of thousands of times. There are only a handful of people who are at that level, and they're all USPSA or IPSC shooters.



Speed is a tactical all by itself!

All of the big boys like Leatham, Burkett, etc. can perform lightning speed reloads on demand. Yeah, they're playing a game but IPSC and/or IDPA is about as good a format as you'll find for learning, refining and practicing gun-handling skills.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:23:03 AM EDT
What is slide lock??? Ipsc mags and gun slide does not work thanks to the fordam tool.


Yeah its a game, Try it some time and see just how much fun it is.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 9:14:11 AM EDT
I shot steel at Rio Salado in Phoenix Tuesday before last, and some of the competition shooters there were telling me to change my loading technique. I put the flat of the mag to the rear of the magwell, then rotate as I push up. This is the Modern Technique way to do it, and it is more reliable than fast. They wanted me to use a mag funnel and slam the thing straight up.

Sorry guys, I am a defensive gunner before a game gunner.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 9:29:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
I shot steel at Rio Salado in Phoenix Tuesday before last, and some of the competition shooters there were telling me to change my loading technique. I put the flat of the mag to the rear of the magwell, then rotate as I push up. This is the Modern Technique way to do it, and it is more reliable than fast. They wanted me to use a mag funnel and slam the thing straight up.

Sorry guys, I am a defensive gunner before a game gunner.



How'd you like Tuesday Night Steel? How'd you place?
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 9:54:41 AM EDT
Tuesday night steel was awesome. My place on the other hand....

I have an excuse though. It was my first time shooting a pistol in a while, I have been living in a dorm. I did 48 seconds on stage one, my buddy with a G19 did it in 30 and said he was shooting slowly that day. By stage four I had it down. It was a drill something like el presidente but with no turn, and I was shooting almost at par. I did better than a lot of guys with single stacks there, so that is a minor consolation.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 12:59:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Sorry guys, I am a defensive gunner before a game gunner.




In this case, that's a false dichotomy. You need to get reloaded and get the gun operational as quickly as possible. How you do it doesn't matter, but it has to get done or all the speed in the world won't help.

Chuck Taylor can do a speedy reload the way you describe, without any external mag well. It may not be the fastest way, but it doesn't have to be slow.

I'm nowhere near Travis' speed on reloads, but I'm not slow compared to the average person who shoots a gun. I do it the way you do it, by matching the back of the mag with the back of the mag well.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:43:45 PM EDT
Ever been in a firefight before? Everything is a bit different when your body dumps a pharmacy of drugs into your system when your E-types are suddenly shooting back at you. No doubt these guys can shoot with their space age laser guns with heat seaking FMJ's but I find it hardly realistic to worry about precisely where your forefinger is placed when performing a "correct" mag change in order to have perfect timing. Realistically, after your vehicle was just hit with 5, 155mm artillery shells buried under the road and your crew doesn't even know who is still alive or if you still i have a dick or not, are you sure that your forefinger will be properly indexed? Makes for good talk down at the shooting club after an exhausting round of skeets though doesn't it?
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:35:00 PM EDT
Funny- all those who are knocking the video & training/shooting sports in general are NOT posting their own videos of THEIR reloads. All this whining is beginning to sound like so many excuses for being slow and NOT practicing.

Want to know what will get you killed? Being slower than the other guy, that's what.

The video is not a fluke. Rather, its a required skill for those who strive to overcome. Another example:

http://members.iolinc.net/smoney/jakedivita/the_reload.wmv

Here is a thought: let's get a Scott Warren reload video up here. Who is he? Oh just some poser who used to run the FBI's HRT.

Or how about this video?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363&q=handgun

I guess the military really F-ed up and hired a gamer (Todd Jarrett) who is sure to get a lot of soldiers killed with his shooting instruction?

Those who knock speed usually can't compete (outside of cyberspace anyway).

Regards,

D.C. Johnson
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:56:44 PM EDT
Speed is great, reliability is final. I will work on my technique and try to make it faster. But the other method, with the mag well, doesn't work very reliably, at least for me. And I tried it.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:32:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 8:33:41 PM EDT by rhino_]

Originally Posted By CBR900:
Those who knock speed usually can't compete (outside of cyberspace anyway).



Another example of the "been there and done that" people who also compete (which refutes the now tiresome "that won't work in real life" argument) would be Larry Vickers. Even the most sanctimonious tactibilly on the block can't refute his credentials, yet he was an excellent competitor (top 10 in USPSA Limited Nationals). I've never seen him reload, but I'll bet he's not too slow.

Lots of cops too. Phil Strader, for instance, is US Capitol Police.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 4:40:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rhino_:

Originally Posted By CBR900:
Those who knock speed usually can't compete (outside of cyberspace anyway).



Another example of the "been there and done that" people who also compete (which refutes the now tiresome "that won't work in real life" argument) would be Larry Vickers. Even the most sanctimonious tactibilly on the block can't refute his credentials, yet he was an excellent competitor (top 10 in USPSA Limited Nationals). I've never seen him reload, but I'll bet he's not too slow.

Lots of cops too. Phil Strader, for instance, is US Capitol Police.



I've heard SIMPLYDYNAMIC is pretty good too.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 7:01:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Trumpet:

Originally Posted By rhino_:

Originally Posted By CBR900:
Those who knock speed usually can't compete (outside of cyberspace anyway).



Another example of the "been there and done that" people who also compete (which refutes the now tiresome "that won't work in real life" argument) would be Larry Vickers. Even the most sanctimonious tactibilly on the block can't refute his credentials, yet he was an excellent competitor (top 10 in USPSA Limited Nationals). I've never seen him reload, but I'll bet he's not too slow.

Lots of cops too. Phil Strader, for instance, is US Capitol Police.



I've heard SIMPLYDYNAMIC is pretty good too.



Excellent examples; these two guys are personal friends of mine; simplydynamic was my team mate during the 2005 GSSF competition shooting season & we've shot USPSA/IDPA/multigun together as well. They both reload bone stock guns at the same speed as race guns. It ain't the gun, its about skill. Check out our team results at www.gssfonline.com.

For those who would judge others -are these two the "real deal"? Simplydynamic served on the security detail for former civilian administrator of Iraq, Paul Bremmer (in Iraq). Officer Strader currently serves for the federal LEO force Capitol Police and has won national titles in PPC as well. He recently beat world champ Dave Sevigny at the IDPA Winter Nationals. Equipment used? A department issued stock Glock out of an issued police holster (WITH retention gaurd employed).

Owning a gun is of little use unless you work to develope the SKILLS to shoot it with accuracy AND speed.

Regards,

CBR
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 11:57:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 12:09:23 AM EDT by uscbigdawg1]
For all the bashers:

First off, the video is not fudged. This video was taken at Fort Benning, after Travis had just finished ALL of his 11B training and was the first time he had touched a pistol since before that training started. He is a VERY talented and VERY successful Grandmaster pistol shooter in both Open and Limited divisions having even beaten Rob Leatham on Rob's home range at a MAJOR match. When he was younger (like 5 years ago) Travis routinely did a minimum of 200-300 reloads per night. 200-300 draws per night. 200-300 of EVERYTHING with his pistol(s) per night. He is that fast because for him, it's the same as pulling out the keys to his house, finding the right key without looking, inserting into the keyhole without looking and entering the house. It's a memorized, physical response to a situation. He executes every piece of it, including looking into the magwell, to make sure that the mag is entering at the right angle and location.

Now, for those that say 'do it on a singlestack'. No problem. Ask him to and he will. He routinely shuts up Ranger and SF folks that think that he's just a competition shooter, but as he's assigned to the Army Marksmanship Unit, he's primarily an instructor for all the military elite units. The techniques that we (USPSA/IPSC shooters) are use to compete with is what is now being taught for its application in CQB scenarios. BTW, not only will he do it with a singlestack, but will roast all day with his stock M9 (a.k.a. Beretta 92).

All I say is that in my experience, most folks that talk crap about IPSC shooters either have drank the IDPA, Bill Wilson, Ed Brown, Les Baer, Ted Yost Kool-Aid (all of which used to be a part of IPSC until they couldn't SELL firearms that were competitive any longer) or showed up, and had their precious egos hurt because they got smashed by a 12 year old kid. I'm not saying all, saying most.

Now...for those that say that it's different if bullets are coming back at you. Well duh. And for anyone that's curious if I've been in a gunfight...yes I have. And you know what kept me alive? Being able to acquire targets and shoot faster, than the bad guys could shoot me. Period. Cover and concealment go out the window and it's about I've got more bullets, and can shoot them faster and more accurately than you. That's a gunfight.

As for those that say IPSC/USPSA is just a game. Of course...we keep score. Guess what...IDPA is a game. When we (the military) train at the NTC and JRTC, it's a game. And EVERYTHING is a training opportunity so get over your Gunsite, Frontsight, Tactibilly, Col. Cooper dogma and just have some fun for cryin' out loud.

BTW, I used to live in Scottsdale and man I miss Tuesday Night Steel! Nothing like it in the world!!! Where else can you pay like $7 and shoot 4 stages in under an hour. Too awesome!!!

Good luck to everyone and hope that y'all go out, shoot and have some fun. I can't wait 'til I get home (back to the Real Army) and can shoot IPSC again. Playing with MP's is too easy...but still fun.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK


Link Posted: 4/6/2006 5:11:57 AM EDT
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