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Posted: 2/19/2006 7:21:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 7:22:02 PM EDT by chris1280]
Ok guys, I am a 1911 noobe and I think I made a big mistake ...I tightened the hex head grip screws a lil too tight and I cant loosen them up...I have my VZ grips coming any day now and I dont know how to take the screws out....if I try to unscrew them any more then I will just be stripping them.....what can I do???
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 7:53:52 PM EDT
you can try this:

get the right size hex head, put it vertical straight down on the screw, and tap it w/ a hammer, then try unscrewing it

if not, force it off and replace the screw bushing
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 7:56:36 PM EDT
One word: DREMEL
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:03:48 PM EDT
I will definatly try tapping it with the hammer first but im curious as to what i would do with the dremel...ive never used one but my father has one at his house...so i have access but how would I go about the dremel
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:27:56 PM EDT
Try heating the part with boiling water, THEN use the above tips: hammer, etc. I advise against trying to drill them out: the steel is harder than the hubs of Hell.

I've used the boiling water treatment on everything from bicycle cranks to automobile brake hose lines... hasn't failed me yet!
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:39:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 8:40:08 PM EDT by chris1280]
boiling water??? I guess I will try that too...I just tried tapping he wrench in with a hammer and it didnt move at all...(I think my finger almost broke trying to turn the wrench) too be comepletely honest with you I know that i didnt tighten the screws that much so I dont know why they would be so tight...its only on one side, on one grip...the other 2 grip screws come out with no problems
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 8:52:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 9:04:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 9:06:47 PM EDT by TBoneDetroit]
Opposites? I was gonna suggest the freezer.... metal contracts when it cools, expands when it heats.

The idea of either here is that the two surfaces (screws and bushings), may expand/contract at different rates, making them easier to remove. Make sure you have the correct allen bit (torx if Springfield Loaded). Make sure you're not using a metric wrench on a standard screw or vice versa. If you were having trouble trying to turn the wrench, but didn't strip the head, maybe try getting some more leverage on the wrench? (putting a small pipe over it to lengthen it, or using the round part of a box end wrench).

If you end up with the dremel, the objective would be to drill/grind off the heads to a point where the grip panel can be slipped off the screw studs (stay in the middle, you only need to drill/grind the size of the screw, not the head.... when you reach the shaft of the screw, the head will come off). They can then maybe be removed with pliers/vice grips.

The trick will be to use the dremel without damageing the grip panel. Caution and judicious use of tape will be helpful.

If the one side is coming off, I wonder if hitting the backs of the stuck screws with penetrating oil would be helpful.

Anyone?
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 3:06:32 AM EDT
have you tried soaking it with penetrating oil over night??
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:22:48 AM EDT
"metal contracts when it cools, expands when it heats"

Except that a hole in a uniform material behiaves like a cuylinder of the material.
When heated the hole gets larger in diameter.
When cooled the hole decreases in diameter.
Heat the area with a soldering iron applied to the screw and see if it breaks loose.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 11:06:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By douglasmorris99:
have you tried soaking it with penetrating oil over night??



Agreed! Try to find some Liquid Wrench. Great penetrating oil. Helps get lead out of the bore also. JD
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 12:52:36 PM EDT
Go to SEARS and get the screw remover bits. It'll eat up the screws but it will take them out.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 2:18:27 PM EDT
Before you start hammering anything, take a soldering iron and place the tip in the hole in the head. Heat it in the head of the screw til it is HOT, take a candle [preferably mostly beeswax] and put it on the head of the screw and let it melt and run. Make sure you also put a bit INSIDE the mag well on the threads. Then put the frame in the freezer for about an hour. Take it out and IMMEDIATELY try to get the screws out. It is worth a try and works pretty well.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:55:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 5:02:32 PM EDT by ThreeMan]

Originally Posted By brickeyee:
"metal contracts when it cools, expands when it heats"

Except that a hole in a uniform material behiaves like a cuylinder of the material.
When heated the hole gets larger in diameter.
When cooled the hole decreases in diameter.
Heat the area with a soldering iron applied to the screw and see if it breaks loose.




Come on guys.

Just the opposite with the hole. The metal expands which causes the outside metal around the hole to get larger and the hole to get smaller. You have to super heat the parts for the hole to expand. Try it on a wedding ring, wash you hands in cold water and the ring will slide right off.

Try placing the frame in the freezer let it stay over night and try to remove while tapping the wrench with a hammer the next day.

Good Luck.

Link Posted: 2/20/2006 4:59:51 PM EDT
"Just the opposite with the hole. The metal expands which causes the outside metal around the hole to get larger and the hole to get smaller."

This is completely wrong.
A hole in metal moves exactly like the removed material. Heat it up and the hole gets larger.
A shrink fit of metal parts is accomplished by freezing teh internal part (it get smaller) and heating the external part (it gets a larger hole) and then forcning the parts together.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 5:08:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 5:22:41 PM EDT by ThreeMan]
You have to super heat the part prior to having the bushing expand and the grip screws will expand with it.

Flash fire for the grip.

Freeze the frame overnight and come back tommorow and tell us all how it worked like I said it would.




Chances are that you cross threaded the screw and you'll have to either dremel or drill out the screw and replace the grip bushing.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 8:07:56 PM EDT
The other option you would have with a dremel is to use one of the cutting discs to slot the screw. Insert correct size flat head screw driver. This will give you a little more torque to get the screw out.

If you can see to the inside, look for steel slivers coming from the screw. This would be an indication that the screw is cross threaded and the bushing will need replaced.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:03:39 AM EDT
Your hands are not made of metal. A very bad example.

I guess in someone’s world a rod of metal gets shorter when heated.

A ring of metal is a rod with the ends joined.
The ring enlarges when heated.
A hole in metal is just a ring with thick walls.
Super heated or just heated makes no difference except for the amount of change.
It commonly appears as parts per million per degree of temp when the linear units are cancelled out.
The way every engineer learns to compute the change is to consider the hole as composed of the same material and apply the temperature coefficient of expansion.

Carbon steel is ~6.5 parts per million per degree F or 11.7 PPM/C.

Freezing and heating can still break a stuck fastener loose by stressing the threads. The heating and cooling are rarely uniform enough for both the threaded fastener and the base material to change temperature and size at exactly the same rate.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:20:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/21/2006 6:26:06 PM EDT by ThreeMan]
What's being overlooked or not communicated properly is what is going on durring the change.

A ring or tube of metal is not a rod and I think I understand what is trying to be said.
Overall yes a tube and ring of metal will expand when heated. This explination is good enouph for basic everyday engineering.

The statement

The way every engineer learns to compute the change is to consider the hole as composed of the same material and apply the temperature coefficient of expansion.
is for general assumptions in school.
Out in the real world this assumption gets space shuttle disasters.

Real world testing shows that initially or durring minor temperature changes (like the temperatures we are discussing in this forum) when heated the inner diameter of a tube/pipe/ring of metal shrinks before expanding.

I attached a crappy paint photo of forces that act on a tube/ring/pipe when heated prior to the heat getting so hot that the inner diameter expands or gets larger. In this photo what is not shown is the elongation forces that are causing the overall length to get longer. I'm only focusing on the inner diameter of the frame bushing.

Now for the screw it can be considered a solid cylinder which will only expand when heated causing the outer diameter of the screw to expand or grow. In essence locking the screw into the frame bushing tighter.

That is why I recomend freezing the frame and then trying to remove.

]xs69.xs.to/pics/06083/Heated-Ring-web.jpg.xs.jpg
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:24:26 PM EDT
Take it to the local gun store and trade it in for a Glock
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:28:39 PM EDT

Take it to the local gun store and trade it in for a Glock


Now that there is funny.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 6:47:41 PM EDT
This has worked for me in similar situations: Heat the parts first with a hair dryer on its highest setting. Get them nice and warm. Now take a can of "air" (for dusting off computer equipment), turn it upside down and give the screw a quick shot. Quickly put the wrench on and turn. Should work well.
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