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Posted: 2/18/2006 1:54:57 AM EDT
Thread title says it all. So what is it?
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:23:53 AM EDT
Wilson Ultra Light. Charles.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:31:03 AM EDT
Greider solid aluminum.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 6:37:36 AM EDT
what hobbs said JD
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:40:39 PM EDT
Nowlins.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:32:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hobbs5624:
Greider solid aluminum.



+1
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 10:00:39 AM EDT
I like the looks of the CMC, has a similar look as the STI ones, but in metal. I'll tell you how i like the feel in a couple weeks when my champion comes back from Tripp
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 10:46:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 10:46:56 AM EDT by hobbs5624]
Here's a trigger that looks like the STI, but in aluminum. I've only istalled one, but it was very well made. It's a Nighthawk Custom trigger.

Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:18:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hobbs5624:
Greider solid aluminum.

+1
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:25:37 PM EDT
What are the differences between all these triggers?

How do aftermarket triggers compare to professional trigger jobs?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 1:59:32 PM EDT
Okay, here comes another diatribe, so I apologize. I'll give you the reader's digest answer, and you can read on if you want.

Aftermarket triggers exist for several reasons. They can improve ergonomics, looks, and enhance trigger function. A trigger job makes the trigger function and feel better. An aftermarket trigger, without a trigger job will at best allow you to limit overtravel, look nice, and fit in the frame with less vertical, and sometimes horizontal play. It does not lighten the pull, allow the pull to be adjusted, nor make it crisper.

Okay, here's the long answer:

A trigger job can be done with verying levels of skill, from simply cutting the mainspring or bending the sear spring (which is wrong and potentially unsafe), to boosting the hammer, to cutting the sear face and hammer hooks. A complete job addresses hammer hooks, sear face and escape angles, polishing of mating surfaces, trigger fit and overtravel, sometimes trigger takeup, spring weights, disconnector fit and interaction with the sear and slide, and honing/polishing of the above parts and a few others. Most professional trigger jobs will at the very least address the hammer hooks and sear face, making for a much crisper and lighter trigger pull.

Let's discuss trigger terminology real quick. These are some of the things your trigger finger can feel. Takeup, (or slack or pre-travel), is the initial movement of the trigger before pressure is put on the disconnector and sear. All you are feeling at this point is the friction of the trigger in the gun, and a leg of the sear spring. Once the trigger is to the rear of it's initial travel or takeup, any further movement of the trigger will cause the sear and disconnector to move, and will allow the hammer to fall. If the sear, which holds the hammer at cock, moves with any perceptible feel, this is called creep. You want the trigger to drop the hammer with a feeling akin to a glass rod breaking. You don't want to feel any motion, sponginess, grittiness, clicking, etc. once the trigger breaks and the hammer falls, the trigger moves all the way to the rear. This is called overtravel. The trigger needs a certain amount of overtravel to reset the sear, and also to allow the sear enough movement inside the gun for the hammer's primary and half cock notches to clear the sear without bumping. In a Series 80 gun, it also needs enough rearward movement to fully raise the firing pin plunger.

Aftermarket triggers were initially developed to have a longer pad and some had a screw to adjust out excessive overtravel. Some brands have a tab or tabs to adjust out takeup. The most important reasons for having an aftermarket trigger are these. When a trigger job is performed, parts are cut inside the gun to a minimal acceptable safe level. For instance, the average hammer has hooks of about .026" - .032". Most smiths lower these to .018" to .022". I go with .020". Some have lowered them more, especially in dedicated competition guns, with some going as low as .013" that I've seen. When engagement surfaces are this small, and spring pressures are minimized, just the inertia of the trigger can cause the hammer to drop, especially when dropping the slide on an empty chamber. Triggers made of lightweight materials, and/or trimmed internally, reduce the risk of hammer drop, sear battering, or even worse, a full auto uncontrollable gun.

Other important reasons for aftermarket triggers are these. Many are not drop in, givning the installer the ability to fit an oversized trigger that will have less wiggle room in the frame, translating to a better and more consistent pull. Many have an overtravel screw. Many have takeup or pretravel tabs. Many are so light that they can reset faster. There are many little things that can be imporved, but also many opportunities for something to go wrong.

I like the Greider solid triggers for my own reasons, but of the lightened and trimmed variety, I like Wilson Ultra Light and Nowlin, which are virtually identical. For a more competition oriented trigger, I love Dlask and STI. The choice is yours, and many pick one simply on looks.

Anyway, if you made it this far down, I'm impressed. One thing is for sure. I need to get a life and get away from the computer. Cheers!
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:09:11 PM EDT
Big +1 John. Another great and informative post. Charles.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 3:52:30 PM EDT
So aftermarket triggers and trigger jobs do different things, and go hand in hand with each other?

Does Yost-Bonitz do good trigger jobs?

What are other differences between all the different triggers? Which one would be suitable for both competitive target shooting and defense?
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 4:03:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2006 8:38:28 PM EDT by hobbs5624]
It's almost dinner time, so:

-Thanks Charles
-I've never touched a YoBo gun, though I've seen quite a few Yost guns from the Gunsite days, and Mr. Yost obviously does great trigger work.
-I'll get back to the various triggers and my opinion of them. Everyone has their faves, and it's almost a matter of taste, as almost all are good.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 9:12:53 PM EDT
There are too many brands of triggers to go into every one of them. Also, I readily admit I'm neither an expert on 1911s, nor even slightly knowledgeable about race guns, so I can't really comment about certain triggers, like the SVI Tri-Glide trigger.

If you're talking trigger pulls 3 lbs. or above, the actual weight in grains of the entire trigger is of very little consequence. If the trigger job is done a certain way, often very low weights can be achieved in safety with a factory steel trigger. Going with an aftermarket trigger is more a factor of having a nicely fit trigger with little perceptible movement up and down. Also, most can have excessive overtravel adjusted out, which is nice. Going to an aftermarket drop in trigger is almost pointless, unless all you're trying to achieve is less overtravel and/or a cool look.

Here are some thoughts on the varoius triggers:

-Wilson Combat: They make a 3 hole trigger with an aluminum shoe and a steel stirrup, and it's the "competition match trigger". My opinion is that this one is junk. The stirrup in pinned in, and I've had them work loose over time. Also, the stirrup is soft. They make one called the "Ultra Light Match Trigger". This is one of the best triggers I've used. They are always high quality, they are lightened in the right places, the bow is rigid, and they are easy to fit. I would say this is my favorite trigger, but I just plain don't like lightening holes and trimmed bows.

-Greider Precision: They are the actual manufacturer of many aftermarket triggers. They have the same quality level as Wilson's Ultra Light and the Nowlin trigger, but come in several varieties. All have a solid stainless steel bow, which is rigid like the Wilson Ultra Light, but without the lightening cut. Shoes come in long, medium, and short (basically factory standard) length of pull. They all have overtravel adjustments, just like the two Wilsons above. You can get them with the three lightening holes in the shoe, or you can get them in solid shoes.

-Nowlin: It's basically the exact same trigger as the Wilson Ultra Light. It has a 3 hole aluminum shoe that is also trimmed on the back edges to save weight, just like the Wilson Ultra Light. It also has a stiff, trimmed bow.

-STI: I used to use this one the most. It has a titanium stirrup and a plastic shoe. Originally they were carbon fiber, but I think they are just referred to as polymer. Either way, I could never see a difference. I really like this trigger. It is lighter than most anything out there, possibly the lightest thing going. It's easy to install, has a racy look, and is well made. The only two drawbacks in my opinion are these. The titanium bow is not as stiff as the stainless ones on others. Also, I've come across more than one where the bow was mounted in the shoe crooked. As far as the bow, I purposely tried bending different triggers once by pulling very hard on a cocked hammer with the safety in place. I was able to bend this one with a great deal of effort, while the Wilson, Greider, Nowlin, and Videckis (no longer made, but replaced by Greider) all held up without bending.

-Masen: if nobody has heard of this one, no biggie. However, you get what you pay for, and this cheap trigger is just plain flimsy. It would not surprise me if they made Wilson's "competition" trigger.

-Dlask: Very high quality, very light, made of a titanium bow and a magnesium shoe. I actually lit on on a belt sander once, so don't try that one at home. Magnesium is next to impossible to put out, and I let it burn out on a concrete floor. These have a bow that is lightened at different points on both the top and bottom. Unless you've installed one before, you might be in for a surprise. They are not as easy as the rest. They are a great trigger though, if you can handle the appearance. Like the STI, the bow is not as stiff as the stainless ones out there.

-McCormick: Pretty good stuff. I don't care for them based on looks, but I've had decent luck with them. One thing I've found is that even the oversized ones tend to be a bit small from top to bottom on the shoe, and on a Colt I did recently, it just dropped in. It's supposed to be oversized for a reson, and this one went in with no fitting.

-Castillo: It has a ball bearing. I have not used it, so I'll reserve comment.

-EGW: they make more than one trigger, and I have not used any of them. I like the thought of having extra material to fit the overtravel but doing so without an overtravel screw. EGW makes nothing but the best parts, so I imagine this might be the ultimate trigger.

-Heinie: I have not used it, but it seems to me to be no different than a Wilson Ultra Light with a little additional lightening inside the shoe. I imagine it's very good, but I've never seen one.

-Burns Custom: Same as above.

-Les Baer: same as a Wilson, Greider, or Nowlin 3 hole, quality wise.

-Nighthawk Custom: I really like this one, but I've only used one. It's cool looking, and very high quality.

Bottom line is, choose the trigger that is good quality, and will fit your needs. If you're getting a trigger job, ask the gunsmith what he favors. You almost cannot go wrong.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 9:23:34 PM EDT
Thanks to all who posted.
Link Posted: 2/19/2006 9:55:57 PM EDT
Greider is getting a lot of business these days, they are the trigger du jour. I have a few of them but I frankly prefer the Burns hard use trigger simply because it has no hole for an overtravel screw.
Link Posted: 2/21/2006 9:57:31 PM EDT
i love my wilson comp, spring and sear
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:18:33 PM EDT
I like Kings, blac anodized, long trigger.

I haven't seen any around for while though.

I don't mind the overtravel screw either. I typically loctite it in place well off of the mag catch and forget about it.
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