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Posted: 1/25/2006 7:35:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 7:39:10 AM EDT by plinkereye]
Im new to the 1911. The only .45 cal Ive shot is the HK Compact 45 and it shoots decent. Has anyone here used a Rock Island 1911 (clone) that is manufactured in the Philipines? I plan to get one from Sarco Inc. What do you guys think? Will I get ripped off? Is it a good qaulity pistol? any feedback will help me.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:32:26 AM EDT
Bad gun. Don't do it, you will not be happy. Charles.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:07:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 12:09:58 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:11:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:32:54 PM EDT
Do they have trigger slap? I owned a fixed barrel 9mm pistol and every time i shot it, it would hurt my hand and trigger finger.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 12:37:22 PM EDT
You'll get varying responses. General consensus is they're pretty good for the price but if some parts break an ordinary GI part may not fit. I've handled them a lot and they seem to fit alright, but they're sure not pretty. Personally, I'd go for a Springfield GI for $50 more. If something goes wrong you've got a lifetime warranty to fix it. MJD
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 3:11:58 PM EDT
In my experence, they run reliably. I certainly would not buy one if customization was a consideration.

damian@adcofrearms.com
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:05:05 PM EDT
I think they are pretty decent for the money. I bought one when they first came out and I had nothing but trouble free service from it. It's a fun gun at a good price.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 7:22:33 PM EDT
Not pretty? It's a parked 1911 clone made to the original specs. That's "pretty" enough for me.



Mine has worked flawlessly and accurately through 1000 rounds of Wolf.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 1:33:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 1:48:21 PM EDT
To each their own.

I will continue to shoot and enjoy my "cheap cast poorly made copy" as well as using the $500 I did not have to spend on it for ammo instead.
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 3:09:14 PM EDT

Unless you really "need" to spend the $1,000.00 +++ for a new 1911, the Rock Island and Charles Daly are decent pistols for under the $500.00 mark. I'm not sure how the new Taurus 1911 rates but if it is like the majority of other Taurus products I've owned it is probably pretty good.

Alternatively, you could buy a used 1911 that might fall in the same price range from another manufacturer.

Whatever your choice, don't let the "gun snobs" tell you that anything less than the $1,000.00+ pistol. If you're looking for a pistol for general shooting or carry, there are plenty to choose from. If you're looking for competition then you'll probably want to step-up to the plate and spend the big bucks.

Just my opinion...
Link Posted: 1/26/2006 7:04:24 PM EDT
same here, i paid 385.00 for mine a few years back, i wanted a 1911 and it fit the budget. i have not regretted it one bit. I carry it to work at the range every day, it sits on the night stand every night. I've had mods done to it, but all cosmetic and to add better sights. I have a Kimber on Lay a Way at the range, but it's already got all the mods i wanted on it. But i will still keep the rock, use it for USPSA, and the range. It hasn't given me a reason to doubt it's reliability.

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 3:51:01 AM EDT
...........i like mine......i don`t worry as much about hurting it as i do for the colts.....hav`nt shot the hell out of it yet...but that`s the intention.....
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 8:51:28 AM EDT
I will get me one soon. I only need it for combat, and plinking.
Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:30:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/28/2006 6:35:35 AM EDT by drobs]
My RIA has run flawlessly. Wouldn't hesitate to buy a 2nd one.

Link Posted: 1/27/2006 10:13:35 PM EDT
As always, it comes down to personal experience.
As a shooter, I paid a little over $300 to have one delivered from a gun auction website.
Have put almost 3,000 rounds in the last year that I have owned it with zero problems.
1911 is now my favorite gun. I don't een knwo why I own so many 9 mm's now.
But I would definintely like to hear from some armorers or gunsmiths that have a lot more bench time and have seen more than their fair share of guns come through their shop.
For the money........ They are a good gun.
Just my 2 cents' worth.
Joe
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:29:45 PM EDT
Just picked up one today. It shot well and had no problems. The Springfield GI was going to be $150 more and I paid $400 for the Rock. It comes with a warranty brand new and also the gunshop/range where I got it will also back it. The shop owner says he has sold a number of them and not one has come back with a problem. For a base gun to beat the crap out of at the range, it is hard to go wrong for $400 or even less as some of you say. Another shooter let me play with his Colt gold cup today as well. Sure there was a noticeable difference but that Colt cost big $$...Hog
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:48:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hogtruckie:
Just picked up one today. It shot well and had no problems. The Springfield GI was going to be $150 more and I paid $400 for the Rock. It comes with a warranty brand new and also the gunshop/range where I got it will also back it. The shop owner says he has sold a number of them and not one has come back with a problem. For a base gun to beat the crap out of at the range, it is hard to go wrong for $400 or even less as some of you say. Another shooter let me play with his Colt gold cup today as well. Sure there was a noticeable difference but that Colt cost big $$...Hog



Makes a nice truck gun too.
You'll find you want to trim the hammer on the RIA a little to cure the hammer bite.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:01:43 PM EDT
What are there now? Theres the Rock Island, the Twin Pines, the Armscor and the High Standard version made in the same Phillipines API - Pahrump NV plant. They are all basically Armscor arent they?

I bought mine at the local Cabelas combining 2 Club Member discounts so was able to walk out the door paying only $295.00 + Tx. on the $400.00 gun.

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:03:01 PM EDT
You would have money better spent if you chuck in another $50 or so and get a SA MilSpec or WWII model. There's got to be a reason why most if not all the big name smiths won't work on RIA's?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:49:17 PM EDT
Because they have their hands filled with tight toleranced high priced Kimbers to fix?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:02:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Marco:
Because they have their hands filled with tight toleranced high priced Kimbers to fix?

Yep! That's probably it!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:21:15 PM EDT
Fact is, Ive always wanted a 1911 but wasnt sure if Id like them. This one shoots flawlessly with
some Mec-Gar mags I recently got. I was pleasantly surprised at how accurate and comfortable it felt. Now I can only imagine what a 1-2 grand c\Colt or Kimber might be like. You know how all this gets started
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:14:15 AM EDT
I'm not saying it's as good as a SA or a colt. I don't think anyone is. I'm not going to try to trick this gun out and build it up to a SA loaded. I MIGHT have the local guy do a thing or 2 on the small scale. Sronger recoil spring? Work the tigger a little or replace it? THAT'S IT. Other than those 2 small considerations I'm going to buy ammo for it and beat the crap out of it. From what I saw yesterday it is accurate enough for me to use as felon repellant. I can't comment on how reliable it is since it has only digested one box of ammo trouble free. However as long as it goes bang every time you won't hear any complaints from me. For these purposes at this price it is a great buy. If you have a SA loaded or Gold Cup on your wish list but want to build up from a basic this isn't my 1st choice for a pistol to do so. That being said there's no reason you couldn't have a smith do more than the two minor things I am considering. If this thing crumbles or has a catastrophic failure I'll let you all know. If I beat the holy crap out of it and it is junk it will show and I'll let you know....Hog
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:25:20 AM EDT
$310 shipped + $50 for transfer figure the RIA will cost you around $360.
www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=43280718

$439 + shipping (call it $20) + $50 FFL figure Springgfield GI will cost you around $514.
www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=43312308

I recall last year seeing SA GI's at bigger box (Gander Mountain) stores for $425. Seemed like steal!
When the SA GI's 1st came out, Springfield was literally giving them away no charge to gunshops with purchases of their other guns.

I bought one of these from the gunshop I was working at then.
Buying my RIA I took a gamble, could've been a POS, turns out it works pretty damn good.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:55:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 9:57:52 AM EDT by plinkereye]
The RI will be my 2nd pistol. My jennings 9mm sucked ass.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:07:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 8:14:49 PM EDT by BulletBait]

Originally Posted By plinkereye:
The RI will be my 2nd pistol. My jennings 9mm sucked ass.


REALLY!
First.
Who ever sold that POS jennings to you, never speak or give them business to them again, EVER.
No one with a bit of decency would sell a first time buyer something like that.

plinkereye, it sounds like your wallet is thin. That's not a dig.
Go to CDNN , download their catalog and find something high quality in the $300-$400 range that you like.
A discontinued new top name gun or even used Glock is 100% better than what you've got or are looking at. There aren't any 1911's in there, but you need to get something reliable, as it is will be your only true handgun (the jennings is better as a hammer than a gun).
www.cdnninvestments.com/
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:26:21 PM EDT
Ive seen CDNN's catolog. I really like their glock 22s. I like the 15 rnd mags and the power of a 40 caliber. I want to own a 1911 also, so my next pistol is going to be a RI-1911 and after that I'll get me a glock 22.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 1:38:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:18:08 AM EDT
People around here seem happy with them, I have not heard anything about parts not fitting.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:02:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 12:04:08 PM EDT by triburst1]
A local shop has new RIA 1911s for $300. I think they would be OK to buy and shoot to see if you really wanted to spend >$1000 for a "good" 1911.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:24:57 PM EDT
$300 is a good deal. Sarco sells them for $275+ship.+ffl so it would cost about $300+ if going with sarco inc.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:45:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By JohnRippert:
It's a parked 1911 clone made to the original specs.



Original specs called for FORGED frame & slide as well as machined tool steel parts. RIA has none of these, it is a cheap cast poorly made copy.

As far as calling for forged parts, I do not believe they had any kind of handle on investment casting at the time. These days they do. See Sturm Ruger. I just filled out my warrenty card and it is going to armscor. I checked the armscor site and they have been making guns for the last 50 years. Yes, I know that doesn't mean they were doing it well but by now they should have a clue. I saw somewhere else somewon say the guns are made of melted down pot metal. According to armscor they make the guns using precision investment casting and CNC machining utilizing ORDANCE STEEL. I am no expert on metallurgy but I do not think ordance steel includes melted pot metal. Bottom line as long as the steel is not bad and the parts are made to spec you end up with a bona fide firearm. For $400 or less for a basic GI .45 you can't really go wrong. I took mine apart for cleaning after the initial shooting session and I could not see anything wrong with the gun. Nor could I see any difference between it and the springfield I own. I have noticed the finish on mine is better than the ones I have seen on these guns in the past. Maybe they're also bringing up the quality on these guns as they go along so I expect the price will go up as well...Hog
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:49:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 10:56:11 AM EDT by Marco]

Originally Posted By Hogtruckie:

As far as calling for forged parts, I do not believe they had any kind of handle on investment casting at the time. These days they do. See Sturm Ruger. I just filled out my warrenty card and it is going to armscor. I checked the armscor site and they have been making guns for the last 50 years. Yes, I know that doesn't mean they were doing it well but by now they should have a clue. I saw somewhere else somewon say the guns are made of melted down pot metal. According to armscor they make the guns using precision investment casting and CNC machining utilizing ORDANCE STEEL. I am no expert on metallurgy but I do not think ordance steel includes melted pot metal. Bottom line as long as the steel is not bad and the parts are made to spec you end up with a bona fide firearm. For $400 or less for a basic GI .45 you can't really go wrong. I took mine apart for cleaning after the initial shooting session and I could not see anything wrong with the gun. Nor could I see any difference between it and the springfield I own. I have noticed the finish on mine is better than the ones I have seen on these guns in the past. Maybe they're also bringing up the quality on these guns as they go along so I expect the price will go up as well...Hog



Good post. These are good guns for the money. And for those who like to wet their feet before
diving in the RI's and its sisters by Armscor are decent copies that perform well. A good way to get started into the 1911 domain. Not to confuse price with low quality here, these will I believe go up significantly.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:41:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 11:42:09 AM EDT by TBoneDetroit]
Keep in mind though, that for around $400, you can get a Sprinfield Armory 1911 with a forged slide and receiver, a piece which is often used as a base for custom builds. I can't see how the two can be equated, unless the RIA is selling at say, $250? Then maybe the difference makes sense.....

Just my 2¢

T Bone (Detroit).
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:11:30 PM EDT
Situation was that I had the discount at one business, Cabelas where I could apply $95.00 any way I wanted. They had 2 MilSpec 45acp I liked. The Springfield at $530.00 and the High Standard Armscor for $390.00. Meaning I could have the HS for $295.00 +Tax OTD. To get a better price on a Springfield were talking FFL fee and shipping and wait. The HS looking pretty good and from research didnt come out looking bad so I saved the $140.00 and used it on ammo and some good magazines
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:59:12 PM EDT
Interesting. I called High Standard home office in Houston to ask about their line of milspec
GI 45 ACP. The slides are infact forged out of block stock, also the lowers out of cast high precision steel. Production is in the Philippines.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:35:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TBoneDetroit:
Keep in mind though, that for around $400, you can get a Sprinfield Armory 1911 with a forged slide and receiver, a piece which is often used as a base for custom builds. I can't see how the two can be equated, unless the RIA is selling at say, $250? Then maybe the difference makes sense.....

Just my 2¢

T Bone (Detroit).

Not where I am. The rock was $400 and the springfield was about $550. I too decided to save a little and apply that saved money towards ammo, maggs and a little gunsmithing. Probably going to pick up a couple of Mec-Gar mags and have the ramp polished barrel throated and trigger done. Plus a stronger recoil spring and I'm done. And that was ordnance steel not ordance...Hog
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:27:51 AM EDT
Well, current MSRP for the SA GI is $564. The list on my Loaded 1911 is $869, and I paid a bit under $700. Should be able to find one (not at a local gun shop nec. I tend to buy off the net and have a local dealer do the transfer, get better deals that way) for a bit over $400. Saw a used (like new) Mil Spec (a cut above the USGI model) on Guns America yesterday for $420..... And I've seen MANY references here to folks buying the USGI for in the neighborhood of $400.

Bottom line, if you're happy with what you get, what else really matters? (Though the original post here did request others opinions....).

T Bone (Detroit).
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:14:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 7:15:32 PM EDT by GlennstrmiM15guy]
I got one a few weeks ago at a gun show here in Michigan for $300 out the door and it shoots just as good as my Springfield XD40, have over 300 rds out of it ranging from FMG,JHP and SWC.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Glennstrmi/100_0265.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4/Glennstrmi/100_0269.jpg
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:13:00 PM EDT
An SA GI is a much better pistol and worth the extra money IMHO. The steel of the forged slide and frame is very good and durable. RIA pistols have been known to have hardness and heat treatment problems, that along with the reduced steel density of castings can lead to a premature wear problem. I've seen several RIA guns with badly peened slidestop notches. That, along with trouble fitting some aftermarket replacement parts is a deterrent of buying these pistols.


According to armscor they make the guns using precision investment casting and CNC machining utilizing ORDANCE STEEL.


Ordnance steel? WTH is that? Is that supposed to be a specific type of steel, or is it just some meaningless marketing buzz word? Different kinds of steel have a numeric classification system like 8620, 1340, 4340, 4140, 4150 or at least say what type of alloy it is like nickle steel, high/low carbon, chrome-moly, chrome-silicon or chrome-vanadium etc... saying a very generic term like ordnance steel does not lend credibility to a pistol's strength. You could use melted down Bic razor blades and call it ordnance steel. Usually if a company uses high grade metal, they come right out and say what kind it is specifically and use it as a marketing tool(example: LRB, DSA etc...).
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:22:08 AM EDT
the SARCO ads state 4140 ordnance grade steel. But thats the only place i've seen it listed.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:42:07 AM EDT
Ordnance Steel aka High Power Carbon Steel, used in many high powered rifles
Also used by Springfield Armory, Remington, Savage
Carbon .45-.55
Manganese 1.0-1.3
Phosphorus .05
Sulphur .05
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:01:05 AM EDT
The operative word is cast. Can't hold a candle to forged.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:17:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By marc1979:
the SARCO ads state 4140 ordnance grade steel. But thats the only place i've seen it listed.



Thanks, thats good to know. Saying 4140 is much more informative as to what a gun is made of than saying ordnance steel. DSA uses 4140 to forge their upper receivers, LRB uses 8620 forgings.


Ordnance Steel aka High Power Carbon Steel, used in many high powered rifles
Also used by Springfield Armory, Remington, Savage
Carbon .45-.55
Manganese 1.0-1.3
Phosphorus .05
Sulphur .05



IIRC, SA uses 8620 steel castings for their receivers. It is interesting that both 4140 and 8620 are both mentioned as ordnance steel. Ordnance steel appears to not be one specific type of steel, but rather a broad range of alloy that can be used for making weapons.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:26:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TBoneDetroit:
The operative word is cast. Can't hold a candle to forged.



That all depends. When comparing objects that have the exact same dimenions, forged will be stronger than cast. Now if a firearm is designed from the very beginning to use castings, the designer will make dimensions larger and make bigger safety margins. That is how Ruger firearms are so strong. They were meant to be cast and thus were made with extra metal in critical areas for strength. They also have a reputation for being heavy, somewhat clunky and built like tanks.

Now, taking an existing design that was engineered to be made with forgings and simply make it with casting without changing anything, will lead to a weaker firearm without a doubt. The 1911 was meant to be forged by JMB, and casting it without any changes to critical area dimensions to compensate is not a very good idea.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:58:51 PM EDT
My buddy just bought one (Rock island) and paid $275.00 for it brand new here in Colorado. I personally have not shot one, but for $275.00 it doesn't sound bad. I know you get what you pay for, but still .......... $275.00
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:41:55 PM EDT
At the time I purchased mine the cost was $269 at the funshow. After 1000 rounds put through it as far as I am concerned I have already gotten my moneys worth out of it. The rest is just gravy.

For the anti-cast crowd out here, to each their own. You do not have to buy one. For someone on a budget who wants to see if a 1911 is something they would like, the RIA is a good entry level weapon. If you like it then get a SA to go along with it and you will have spent around $800 for both, not too far off the price of a Pony.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:18:53 PM EDT
I did not pay but about 350 for a SA milspec on consignment from a local shop about a year ago, and it shoots like a dream and is totally reliable. The point is, for not much more you can have something better as far as resale if nothing else. I have learned the hard way to not save a few hundred now and end up regretting it later. Buy quality the first time and only cry once, I think the saying goes. YMMV.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:48:36 PM EDT
Ditto the above...I paid $375 OTD for my Milspec, very slightly used...I doubt it had more than a box or two of shells ran through it. I've put around 8-900 through it, it runs 100%. $375 for a pistol with a forged frame, forged slide, stainless barrel? No Phillippine pistol can compare...Sometimes it pays to check out the used pistol counter before you buy....
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