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Posted: 1/6/2006 7:10:20 PM EDT
I was just wondering if the Kimber Custom TLE II and the Colt 1991/Series 70 have an internal firing pin safety?

Ty.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:35:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 9:01:42 PM EDT
1991s do, K2s do, I do not believe the S70 will be on the CDO"J" "approved" gun list. The 80/90 series both have safety also. I guess your first biz should be seeing what you are allowed to own.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:55:42 AM EDT
Since the Series 70 doesn't have an internal firing pin safety, then why would anyone want one? If you drop it, it'll go off. Please enlighten me.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:28:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 2:29:26 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]

Originally Posted By Fglocker_Plz:
Since the Series 70 doesn't have an internal firing pin safety, then why would anyone want one? If you drop it, it'll go off. Please enlighten me.




1911s were used for decades before anyone thought they needed a drop safety in them. IF and ONLY IF you drop a Series 70 from a significant height, onto the muzzle (and they naturally want to land butt down) then it COULD go off. If you are really worried about it, get a Ti firing pin and make sure you switch your firing pin spring every time you get a new recoil spring.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 2:47:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 2:47:34 PM EDT by cmeyer001]
The mechanism that enables proper functioning of the firing pin safety is thought by many to be an impediment to a fine trigger job.

Now I know there are many out there who have Series 80 Colts that have phenomanal triggers, but the general consensus is that it is easier to put a better trigger on the Series 70 / Kimber Series 1/ Springfield type pistols.

So, that is why I only own Kimber Series1/ Springfield or Colt Series 70 1911A1s

You will also of course find the Series 70 style firing pin set up on most of the high dollar 1911A1s
(wilson, nighthawk, RRA, etc....) I didn't list them all for the obvious reasons
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:05:25 PM EDT
Since the Series 70 doesn't have an internal firing pin safety, then why would anyone want one? If you drop it, it'll go off. Please enlighten me.

Not true, grasshopper.

Check the CA DOJ website for approved guns. You will find many, many "series 70" type 1911s that pass the drop tests.

The FBI's drop testing of their Springfield 1911 were even more rigorous reference drop and throw testing, the pistols did not discharge.

Link Posted: 1/7/2006 10:07:40 PM EDT
From another recent thread . . .

As I said previously, I'm sure this probably is the case but I like having a series 80. You might say I prefer a series 80 just for the comfort it brings me and nothing else.

Nothing wrong with that. I have series 80 guns and like them very much.

But just to be pedantic, the majority of the stuff you listed up there have nothing to do with preventing an inertia fire, which was what I was addressing.

The inertia firing pin prevents an inertia fire (drop fire).

This is proven by CA DOJ tests on the following pistols, ALL of which lack firing pin blocks:

Ed Brown KC-SS-CAL / Stainless Steel Pistol 4.25" .45 ACP 6/24/06
Ed Brown Executive Target "ET-BB-CAL" / Carbon Steel
Kimber Warrior / Blue Steel Pistol 5" 45 ACP 12/29/06
Les Baer (all below)
Concept I (1.5" Group) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Concept I / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Concept II (1.5" Group) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Concept II / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Custom Carry (1.5" Group) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/25/06
Custom Carry / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/25/06
DCM National Match Hardball 5" / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 9/12/06
PPC Distinguished (1.5" Group) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
PPC Distinguished / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Premier II (1.5" Group) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Premier II / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
S.R.P. (1.5" Group) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
S.R.P. / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Super Tac / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Super Tack (1.5" Group) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Thunder Ranch (1.5" Group) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 11/14/06
Thunder Ranch / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 11/14/06
Ultimate Master Combat (1.5" Group) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Ultimate Master Combat / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/30/06
Nighthawk Custom (all below)
Talon IV (Black/Blue) / Steel Pistol 3.65" .45 ACP 12/14/06
Talon IV (Black/Sniper Gray) / Steel Pistol 3.65" .45 ACP 12/14/06
Talon IV / Steel Pistol 3.65" .45 ACP 12/14/06
Predator II (Black/Blue) / Steel Pistol 4" 45 ACP 12/29/06
Predator II (Black/Sniper Gray) / Steel Pistol 4" 45 ACP 12/29/06
Talon II / Steel Pistol 4.25" .45 ACP 10/21/06
Talon III (Black/Blue) / Steel Pistol 4.25" 45 ACP 12/29/06
Talon III (Black/Sniper Gray) / Steel Pistol 4.25" 45 ACP 12/29/06
Predator III (Black/Sniper Gray) / Steel Pistol 4.33" .45 Auto 11/1/06
Predator III (Black/Titanium Blue) / Steel Pistol 4.33" .45 Auto 11/1/06
Predator III-T / Steel Pistol 4.33" .45 Auto 10/21/06
GRP / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/21/06
GRP RECON / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 11/29/06
Predator (Blue) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/21/06
Predator (Sniper Gray) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/21/06
Predator / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/4/06
Talon (Blue) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/21/06
Talon (Sniper Gray) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/21/06
Talon / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/4/06
Talon II (Black/Sniper Gray) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 11/1/06
Talon II (Black/Titanium Blue) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 11/1/06
Springfield Armory (all below)
PX9801L (ambi safety) / Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 3" .45 ACP 12/20/06
PX9801L / Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 3" .45 ACP 12/20/06
PX9802L / Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 3" .45 ACP 8/13/06
PX9804L / Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 3" .45 ACP 1/17/06
PX9805L / Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 3" .45 ACP 1/17/06
PX9806L / Stainless Steel Pistol 3" .45 ACP 9/22/06
PX9808L / Blue Steel Pistol 3" .45 ACP 9/6/06
XD9801 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9 mm 3/19/06
XD9810 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9 mm 7/29/06
XD9811 / Composite, Steel Pistol 3" 9 mm 4/7/06
XD9802 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 10/25/06
XD9812 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 3.01" .40 S&W 3/10/06
XD9821 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.1" 9 mm 3/23/06
XD9822 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.1" .40 ACP 2/18/06
PX9510L (ambi safety) / Stainless, Blue Carbon Steel Pistol 3.25" .45 ACP 2/20/06
PX9510L / Stainless, Blue Carbon Steel Pistol 3.25" .45 ACP 2/20/06
PB9162L / Carbon Steel Pistol 3.5" .45 10/4/06
PX9161L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.5" .45 ACP 12/31/06
PX9161L / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.5" .45 ACP 12/31/06
PX9171L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.5" .45 ACP 3/27/06
PX9171L / Stainless Steel Pistol 3.5" .45 ACP 3/27/06
PX9301L (ambi safety) / Carbon Steel Pistol 3.5" .45 ACP 12/31/06
PX9301L / Carbon Steel Pistol 3.5" .45 ACP 12/31/06
PX9505L / Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 3.5" 9 mm 9/6/06
XD9524 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 4' .45 GAP 9/26/06
PX9142L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/27/06
PX9142L / Stainless Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/27/06
PX9503L (ambi safety) / Alloy, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/27/06
PX9503L / Alloy, Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 3/27/06
PX9511L (ambi safety) / Carbon Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 12/31/06
PX9511L / Carbon Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 12/31/06
XD9701 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" 9 mm 5/9/06
XD9702 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4" .40 S & W 9/6/06
PW9142L / Carbon Steel Pistol 4.0" .45 10/4/06
PX9149L / Alloy, Carbon Steel Pistol 4.0" .45 10/4/06
XD9504 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 4.05" .45 3/23/06
XD9101 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9 mm 10/21/06
XD9101LE / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9 mm 10/21/06
XD9102 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 12/20/06
XD9102LE / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 12/20/06
XD9103 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .357 Sig 12/20/06
XD9103LE / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .357 Sig 12/20/06
XD9104 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9 mm 3/21/06
XD9109 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/21/06
XD9201 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9 mm 3/26/06
XD9202 / Composite, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 3/26/06
XD9301 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9 mm 1/17/06
XD9302 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S&W 1/17/06
XD9501 / Steel, Polymer Pistol 4.08" 9 mm 12/3/06
XD9502 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 4.08" .40 S & W 12/3/06
PB9108L / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/8/06
PB9113L (ambi safety) / Steel Pistol 5" .38 Super 9/20/06
PB9113L / Steel Pistol 5" .38 Super 9/20/06
PB9114L / Steel Pistol 5" .38 Super 7/29/06
PB9151L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/19/06
PB9609L / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 4/30/06
PC9102 / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 12/3/06
PC9105L (ambi safety) / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 9/20/06
PC9105L / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 9/20/06
PC9106L / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 9/22/06
PC9107L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/29/06
PC9107L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/29/06
PC9108L (ambi safety) / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/29/06
PC9108L / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/29/06
PC9111 (ambi safety) / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/29/06
PC9111 / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/29/06
PC9111LR / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 7/21/06
PC9206 / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 5/9/06
PI9132L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 4/26/06
PI9132L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 4/26/06
PI9134L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" 9 mm 4/26/06
PI9134L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" 9 mm 4/26/06
PI9140L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/27/06
PI9140L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 3/27/06
PW 9609L / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 4/21/06
PW9108L / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 9/22/06
PW9151L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 4/30/06
PX9103L (ambi safety) / Alloy, Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/8/06
PX9103L / Alloy, Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/8/06
PX9104L / Alloy, Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 5/9/06
PX9105L / Blue Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 9/6/06
PX9106L / Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 9/22/06
PX9109L (ambi safety) / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/8/06
PX9109L / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/8/06
PX9130L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" 9 mm 12/31/06
PX9130L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" 9 mm 12/31/06
PX9151L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/20/06
PX9151L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/20/06
PX9152L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 5/9/06
PX9154L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 10/25/06
PX9181L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 12/31/06
PX9181L / Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 12/31/06
PX9608L (ambi safety) / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 4/26/06
PX9608L / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 4/26/06
PX9609L / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 7/31/06
XD9402 Tactical / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S & W 9/6/06
XD9405 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5" .40 S & W 12/3/06
XD9525 / Polymer, Stainless Steel Pistol 5" .45 GAP 9/26/06
PX9105ML / Carbon Steel Pistol 5.0" .45 ACP 10/25/06
XD9401 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9 mm 3/10/06
XD9404 / Polymer, Steel Pistol 5.01" 9 mm 6/23/06
XD9505 / Polymer, Carbon Steel Pistol 5.01" .45 3/23/06
PX9129L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 6" .45 ACP 2/20/06
PX9129L / Stainless Steel Pistol 6" .45 ACP 2/20/06
PX9628L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 6" .45 ACP 2/8/06
PX9628L / Stainless Steel Pistol 6" .45 ACP 2/8/06
PX9629L (ambi safety) / Stainless Steel Pistol 6" .45 1/29/06
PX9629L / Stainless Steel Pistol 6" .45 1/29/06
Strayer Voight
Infinity Trad. Target Pistol / Stainless Steel, Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 7/23/06
Infinity Comp. Target / Stainless Steel, Polymer Pistol 5.190" .45 ACP 4/2/06
Wilson Combat
Wilson Sentinel Tactical WS-T-ACA BLACK / Black Steel Pistol 3.75" .45 ACP 12/29/06
WCQBC-T-A-CA / Carbon Steel Pistol 4" .45 ACP 2/27/06
Wilson Stealth (WSDS-A-ACA) / Blue Steel Pistol 4.1" .45 ACP 12/19/06
Tactical Elite, Ambi, AT / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/14/06
WCQB-T-A-CA / Carbon Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/27/06
Wilson Classic Ambi 2-Tone (WC-A-TTSCA) / Blue(Black) Steel/Stainless Pistol 5" 45 ACP 12/29/06
Wilson CQB, Ambi, AT Tac Light Rail (WCQB-AL-CA) / Blue Steel (Armor Tuff Finish Pistol 5" .45 ACP 12/29/06
Wilson Super Grade, Two-Tone (WSG-A-TT CA) / Blue/Stainless Pistol 5" .45 ACP 12/19/06
Wilson Tactical Super Grade (WTSG-A-ACA) / Blue Steel Pistol 5" .45 ACP 12/19/06
WKZ-T-PA-CA / Carbon Steel, Polymer Pistol 5" .45 ACP 2/27/06
Wilson's Combat Protector WPS-A-SS CA / Stainless Steel Pistol 5'" .45 ACP 11/16/06


Springfield and Les Baer have supplied 1911 to the FBI, which passed a more stringent drop test than CA DOJ, again, with no firing pin blocks.


From http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/labcert.htm

12128. As used in this chapter, the "drop safety requirement for handguns" means that at the conclusion of the firing requirements for handguns described in Section 12127, the same certified independent testing laboratory shall subject the same three handguns of the make and model for which certification is sought, to the following test:
A primed case (no powder or projectile) shall be inserted into the chamber. For pistols, the slide shall be released, allowing it to move forward under the impetus of the recoil spring, and an empty magazine shall be inserted. For both pistols and revolvers, the weapon shall be placed in a drop fixture capable of dropping the pistol from a drop height of 1m + 1cm (39.4 + 0.4 in.) onto the largest side of a slab of solid concrete having minimum dimensions of 7.5 X 15 X 15 cm (3 X 6 X 6 in.). The drop distance shall be measured from the lowermost portion of the weapon to the top surface of the slab. The weapon shall be dropped from a fixture and not from the hand. The weapon shall be dropped in the condition that it would be in if it were dropped from a hand (cocked with no manual safety applied). If the design of a pistol is such that upon leaving the hand a "safety" is automatically applied by the pistol, this feature shall not be defeated. An approved drop fixture is a short piece of string with the weapon attached at one end and the other end held in an air vise until the drop is initiated.
The following six drops shall be performed:
(a) Normal firing position with barrel horizontal.
(b) Upside down with barrel horizontal.
(c) On grip with barrel vertical.
(d) On muzzle with barrel vertical.
(e) On either side with barrel horizontal.
(f) If there is an exposed hammer or striker, on the rearmost point of that device, otherwise on the rearmost point of the weapon.
The primer shall be examined for indentations after each drop. If indentations are present, a fresh primed case shall be used for the next drop.
The handgun shall pass this test if each of the three test guns does not fire the primer.


For the record, I believe that if you're not comfortable carrying a 1911 cocked and locked, you shouldn't be carrying one. If you don't like looking at a cocked hammer, go get a Sig or an H/K. I carry sigs and glocks plenty too.

I concur.

Link Posted: 1/8/2006 12:50:37 PM EDT
So if the handguns with no firing pin safety don't go off when dropped, then why do firing pin safety exist?

Does having a firing pin safety effect the trigger pull? I don't understand why would anyone want a gun without a firing pin safety. Great safety feature IMO.
Link Posted: 1/8/2006 1:39:57 PM EDT
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