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Posted: 1/5/2006 2:26:27 PM EDT
First I must say the 1911 was the first pistol I ever fired. I love the history behind it. I love the way it looks. I love the way it feels. I love the control layout and I seem to shoot better with a 1911 than any other pistol. I turned 21 back in September and am now getting ready to purchase my first handgun. I've shot quite a few other pistols aswell which include: HK USP, Beretta 92fs, Beretta 96fs, Sig 226, Browning HP, and a few different Glocks. I really like 1911's the most in terms of feel and all but the thing that worries me with them is reliability. I don't know if it's just me but it seems that 1911's are pretty hit a miss when it comes to reliability and that makes me feel uneasy about using one in a life and death situation. I've been tossing back different pistols in my head trying to decide what to get and I've narrowed it down two a USP or a SIG but damn do i like the feel of a 1911. I just can't make up my damn mind
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:33:56 PM EDT
Go with the SIG. SIGs and Glocks are the 2 best pistols out of the box in terms of reliability. SOME 1911 makers turn out reliable guns, others don't. No one but sig makes sig and no one but glock makes a glock. Everybody and their momma's dog makes a 1911.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:35:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 2:38:02 PM EDT by absit]
The military trusted the 1911 for decades. The 1911 has been a major player in the handgun carry world for almost a century. It worked then, it works now, so long as you don't dick with it. The a USMC unit trusts it, the FBI trusts it, many law enforcement agencies/officers/departments trust it. I'd be willing to bet the 1911 has saved more lives than any other handgun in existance. Maybe even more than all the rest combined.

But, as with anything, test before you trust. If you're nervous about it, look into a 1* package or buy a custom gun, just be sure it's made for fighting, not for competition.

Edit regarding Sigs and Glocks. You can't go wrong with a Sig, They feel good, they work, and they're some of the most accurate and reliable production guns available. Glocks I don't like so much, I learned on them and I prefer the single action and manual safety. But again you can't go wrong with a Glock if you like them. Chances are if you like 1911s you won't like Glocks, they may not fit your hand, but only you can judge that. I personally can adapt to nearly anything (short of a Desert Eagle) but if I had a CHOICE I'd pick the 1911 or Sig P226, depending on the situation.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:45:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 2:47:36 PM EDT by rmdugan84]
Your correct in that I do not like Glocks. They just aren't comfy with that goofy ass grip they have

Can you give me a rundown of various "fighting" 1911's you would recommend?
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 2:58:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 3:00:18 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:05:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 3:06:15 PM EDT by SGB]
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:22:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Go with the SIG. SIGs and Glocks are the 2 best pistols out of the box in terms of reliability. SOME 1911 makers turn out reliable guns, others don't. No one but sig makes sig and no one but glock makes a glock. Everybody and their momma's dog makes a 1911.



I wonder why that is.....

And FYI, my 1911 has been malfunction-free since I bought it new last year. My Glock 23 jams at least once a range-trip, and the 22 slightly less often.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:23:31 PM EDT
Lots of reliable handguns out there. 1911 is 1 of em. Any gun can have problems out of the box. This is why people say shoot your carrry ammo thru it to ensure reliability. Most guns you could probably buy and carry with no problems.
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 3:32:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 7:31:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Go with the SIG. SIGs and Glocks are the 2 best pistols out of the box in terms of reliability. SOME 1911 makers turn out reliable guns, others don't. No one but sig makes sig and no one but glock makes a glock. Everybody and their momma's dog makes a 1911.



I wonder why that is.....

And FYI, my 1911 has been malfunction-free since I bought it new last year. My Glock 23 jams at least once a range-trip, and the 22 slightly less often.

What are you doing wrong with your Glocks? What kind of 1911 do you have? By the way, I loved you in Troy
Link Posted: 1/5/2006 9:37:21 PM EDT
glock, Sig, HK, and top-1911 brands are all great guns

if you like the feel/shootablility of the 1911, get one

glock is the best, cheapest, hi-qulality HG out there that will work out of the box, its a KISS gun that is ugly as crap and has less than the best ergonamics for shooting, but it will work (more times than other brands)
SIGs are great DA/SA guns--they shoot and feel great; HKs are also great SA/DA guns (never tried thier DAO)--a nice pistol, but could be better designed for better shootablity

they will work most of the time (like any other top-quality gun), but parts/accessories are less available and more expensive

but there is one thing that i love, and thats a consistant trigger pull (and glock's trigger bites)--therefore, i went w/ the 1911 (and it feels the best to shoot)
1911s are eaisly customizable and while some may require a little more tinkering/work to get 100%, they are the best shooters out there imo


Link Posted: 1/5/2006 10:25:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:

Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Go with the SIG. SIGs and Glocks are the 2 best pistols out of the box in terms of reliability. SOME 1911 makers turn out reliable guns, others don't. No one but sig makes sig and no one but glock makes a glock. Everybody and their momma's dog makes a 1911.



I wonder why that is.....

And FYI, my 1911 has been malfunction-free since I bought it new last year. My Glock 23 jams at least once a range-trip, and the 22 slightly less often.

What are you doing wrong with your Glocks? What kind of 1911 do you have? By the way, I loved you in Troy



What am I doing wrong? Shooting them, it would seem. My 1911 is a Springfield Armory TRP.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 4:54:45 AM EDT
every gun make and model will have its bad apples, thats just the price you pay for mass production.
and even the glock will jam up if not properly lubed and cleaned.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:10:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rmdugan84:
Your correct in that I do not like Glocks. They just aren't comfy with that goofy ass grip they have

Can you give me a rundown of various "fighting" 1911's you would recommend?



What's your price range?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:45:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By absit:

Originally Posted By rmdugan84:
Your correct in that I do not like Glocks. They just aren't comfy with that goofy ass grip they have

Can you give me a rundown of various "fighting" 1911's you would recommend?





What's your price range?

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:53:15 AM EDT
Someday Dusty will get it. Glocks malfunction all the time. EVERY range qual I've ever been to with my agency has at least 1 malfunction on the line with the issued Glocks usually more than one. We run 6-8 shooters at a time. It's not uncommon for glocks to malf.

My Springer GI is my only stock 1911 and it's over 2K rounds without malfunction. Not a single hiccup of any sort. Probably 1200 rounds of Wolf with the rest being 200gr LSWC and other assorted handloads. I did replace the recoil spring at 1K and 2K it's overkill but springs are cheap and all my pistols get them swapped every thousand or so rounds.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 11:33:29 AM EDT
For a while, I was forced to carry a Sig 229. I've never had a gun that malfunctioned more often, and suffered so much parts breakage. At least twice, the pin that held the extractor in place sheared off and rendered the gun unusable. Multiple times the gun would fail to go into battery reliably. Unfortuantly, I had no option to carry anything else.

On the other hand, I've had excellent experiences will all my 1911's. I have had 100% reliability on every one of them, except for a short time when I was not crimping my handloads properly. I have literally not had the same reliability from my Glocks, H&K, S&W auto's, as I have from my Kimbers, Colts, Para Ordnance, Springfield, and Nighthawks. My "go to" pistol is ALWAYS a 1911.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 12:48:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By absit:

Originally Posted By rmdugan84:
Your correct in that I do not like Glocks. They just aren't comfy with that goofy ass grip they have

Can you give me a rundown of various "fighting" 1911's you would recommend?



What's your price range?



I'd say no more than 2,000...
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:08:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 1:09:41 PM EDT by jollyroger]

Originally Posted By rmdugan84:

I'd say no more than 2,000...




In that price range I'd say you could get a 1911 that would be damned reliable with no questions asked.

ETA: I've been impressed with the few Kimbers I've shot.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:15:36 PM EDT
One reason there is a perception (mostly erroneous IMO) that the 1911 is unreliable is because it's been around for nearly 100 years. That's not bad in itself, but unfortunately there are a lot of magazines that have been around nearly that long, and many of the ones made since are CRAP.

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 1:38:57 PM EDT
The new Colt 1911s are the only major brand that are reliable out of the box without going semi-custom or custom mainly because they use higher quality parts. I recommend the Colts. But they are expensive and are basic so you'll want to drop even more $$ into them someday. They are very nice though. SIGs, Glocks and XDs are reliable out of the box. Here's a good price on a new Colt. Get it now: New Colt at Good Price
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:16:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 7:17:30 PM EDT by fullauto4u]

Originally Posted By MonkeyGrip:
The new Colt 1911s are the only major brand that are reliable out of the box without going semi-custom or custom mainly because they use higher quality parts. I recommend the Colts. But they are expensive and are basic so you'll want to drop even more $$ into them someday. They are very nice though. SIGs, Glocks and XDs are reliable out of the box. Here's a good price on a new Colt. Get it now: New Colt at Good Price


That is a total load of BULLSHIT The Colt's are nice pistols, but IMHO you get way more for your money with Kimber.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:13:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 10:55:43 PM EDT by MonkeyGrip]

Originally Posted By fullauto4u:

Originally Posted By MonkeyGrip:
The new Colt 1911s are the only major brand that are reliable out of the box without going semi-custom or custom mainly because they use higher quality parts. I recommend the Colts. But they are expensive and are basic so you'll want to drop even more $$ into them someday. They are very nice though. SIGs, Glocks and XDs are reliable out of the box. Here's a good price on a new Colt. Get it now: New Colt at Good Price


That is a total load of BULLSHIT
The Colt's are nice pistols, but IMHO you get way more for your money with Kimber.



I'll overlook your crass ignorance and attempt to give you some needed enlightenment. Kimber spends too much effort selling fancy bells and whistles to the uneducated and not enough on metalurgy or functional design. This is why they don't match Colt and most who know will recomend a basic Springfield over a Kimber as a starting 1911 since you don't have to pay for fancy looking parts of questionable metal that you'll want to toss anyway.
All you have to do is look here for a bit to see many Kimber owners struggling with their problems to see the real story.
www.1911forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=27
Notice that they even have a tacked thread called "Kimber Common Problems and Fixes...".
You don't find such a thing or the shear volume of complaints on the Colt forums, particularly with the newer Colts, or Glocks, or SIGs or XDs. What you get "more" of with Kimber is big (cheap) MIM thumb safeties, beavertails etc. and not-so-sucessful nor popular design features such as their version of the Schwartz safety and an external extractor. Most Kimbers work fine but do you want the one (of many) that doesn't? Almost all new Colts and Glocks work all the time. Any top 1911 gunsmith wants to work on Colt first then the Brazilian made Springfield. With the Kimbers, they'll tell to to replace a good deal of the cheap stock Kimber parts and start over. How many problems can you ignore to still call a gun "reliable"? Your definition is obviously much looser than mine. Get a Colt and you won't be sorry. Get a Kimber and you may be happy. But maybe not. Kimber's (and stock SAs) are too hit or miss for me for obvious reasons (mainly parts of cheaper metalurgy) and give Glock fans much fodder to label 1911s as "unreliable" with.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 7:51:31 AM EDT
I want one that is all about tactical/combat use. A no nonsense, nothing I don't need full out combat reliable pistol. I don't want any MIM parts in it at all. I want something that has a very durable finish. It also must have a rail for a light, and a ambi-safety and left handed magazine release. Is it possible to find this combination for under 2,000?

ETA: How are RRA 1911's? The new tactical model looks like what I'm looking for.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 8:00:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:04:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2006 10:12:20 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By rmdugan84:
I want one that is all about tactical/combat use. A no nonsense, nothing I don't need full out combat reliable pistol. I don't want any MIM parts in it at all. I want something that has a very durable finish. It also must have a rail for a light, and a ambi-safety and left handed magazine release. Is it possible to find this combination for under 2,000?

ETA: How are RRA 1911's? The new tactical model looks like what I'm looking for.



These models fit your price range.

(1.) Wilson Combat CQB
(2.) Used SA Pro w/ end user added Dawson light rail.
(3.) RRA Basic Carry w/ Dawson rail.

You can forget about the RRA Tactical for at least a year. I've checked into it and they are not even making the frames yet.
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 9:23:31 AM EDT
Thanks for the info Dinger
Link Posted: 1/7/2006 11:44:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
No one but sig makes sig and no one but glock makes a glock.



Smith and Wesson Sigma is/was a Glock. I haven't seen one in years, but we could interchange the slides between it and a Glock.

Back to topic:

I carry a 1911 every day. I've been shooting 1911s for about 20 years since I was a tanker in the Army. I trust mine with my life, except in the dead of summer, when I'm wearing not much clothes, then I trust a Walther PPK.

There are whole legions of people carrying 1911s for defense. If the design didn't work, people wouldn't be carrying them.

It's just like any other gun you use for self-defense. You have to get one, make sure you're confident in it, which means lots of range time. If something's not quite right, fix it. As one of my shooting instructors once told me, "Make your gun work for you."

For me, Glocks and Sigs don't fit my hand. Since they don't fit my hand, I can't shoot them worth a damn. I suppose if I were gifted with ape fingers or something, I'd be good to go, but my hands are medium sized and I have to jack around with my grip in order to get the sights on target. I don't need that kind of problem if someone's shooting back at me. That pretty much puts them right off my RADAR.

1911 fits my hand, it points where I need it every time, all the time, and all three of mine go bang every time I want them to go bang. My three are all from different manufacturers, two of them were NIB, and one was used and somewhat funky on the inside, but they all work. I sometimes have trouble understanding folks whose 1911s aren't working. I figure they're not doing something right.
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