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Posted: 12/17/2005 12:00:55 AM EDT
Okay,

About 8 months ago or so I purchased a S.A. 1911. It's their target model and it's worked great. My only real beef is with the HEAVY trigger!

When I first got the pistol, I had a tough time shooting well with it. Since then I've coped with it and learned to adjust to shoot with such a heavy trigger pull. However, even when I put it on a rest and shoot on paper. I REALLY notice the heavy pull. It's to the point I feel it inhibits the performance of the gun. Maybe I just got a fluke, but when I shoot off a rest, I can usually only get a through a a box or two of ammo before I really start to notice fatigue in my hands/trigger finger. Usually after a few shots, I already I have an imprint on my finger from the trigger and overtravel screw hole. I especially notice that when anyone else tries my pistol, they dip the gun like I did.

The trigger is very crisp, especially for a pistol. Is there anything I can do to just lighten the pull a little? Is there safety issues with this? Is it hard to do, as I'm certainly not a qualified gunsmith.

I don't want something super light, but this one just isn't cutting it.

Thanks,
Gundraw
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:48:46 AM EDT
You can try rebending the sear spring to reduce the tension on the triger return leaf.


Had one gun that went from 8lbs to 5 by doing that alone
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 2:20:06 AM EDT
Does it have the ILS? If so you might trying swapping the MSH housing out for a conventional type, using either a 23# or 20# mainspring. The ILS system typically uses a really heavy spring in the 28# range or so.

If yours doesn't have the ILS then disregard everything I said. You can still swap out the mainspring for a lighter model though. How much of a difference it makes I can't say.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 6:20:53 AM EDT
19# mainspring will make a small difference/improvement.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 9:22:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Seth_Livzz:
Does it have the ILS? If so you might trying swapping the MSH housing out for a conventional type, using either a 23# or 20# mainspring. The ILS system typically uses a really heavy spring in the 28# range or so.

If yours doesn't have the ILS then disregard everything I said. You can still swap out the mainspring for a lighter model though. How much of a difference it makes I can't say.



Yep, if it has the ILS system, removing that will help some with trigger pull. You can keep the old MSH or just get a new one that you may like better. What you will need however is a new 19,20, or 23# mainspring, mainspring cap, and cap pin. What you will be taking out is the special ILS mainspring cap, and the extra heavy and shorter than standard ILS mainspring.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 10:28:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 10:50:42 AM EDT by GunDraw]
Yep, mine has the ILS.

So how much work would swapping this spring entail, I"m assuming this is something a shadetree 'smith can handle? Anything tricky about it?

How about which one to get?? I hear 19, 20, and 23 lbs. being thrown around. Any differences I should consider?

Now I don't HAVE to change MSH right?? I would, I'm not particularily fond of the one I have. But the price is a little high for a new one IF I can keep the old, I'd like to.

Thanks for the help guys. This is really what the gun needs to make it a practical shooter for me.

Gundraw

ETA:
I was looking around and found these:

Wolff 19lb. Mainspring

Wilson Mainspring Cap

Wilson Cap Pin
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 10:37:53 AM EDT
Try a 19# mainspring. You really don't need a spring heavier than that.

If you want a lighter pull than that, try a 17# mainspring. I would not go lighter than that due to primer ignition issues.

This is much simpler than tweaking the sear spring, and can be undone easily.

Bending the legs of the sear spring is more complicated than it appears and can have unintended effects, especially if the left leg (the one that rides the sear) doesn't have enough tension.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 7:30:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunDraw:
Now I don't HAVE to change MSH right??



I dont think the ILS MSH has the hole for the mainspring cap pin. that would complicate reassembling. The ILS MSH also has that extra hole for the dissassembly tool.

A New MSH is not very expensive. They flat, wedge, and arched shape to see which one fits best for you. When you bring the gun up from the low ready the sights should already be aligned for elevation. If the front sight is low you need an arched MSH. If the front sight is high you need a flat MSH. wedge shaped is the middle ground.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:40:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By GunDraw:
Now I don't HAVE to change MSH right??



I dont think the ILS MSH has the hole for the mainspring cap pin. that would complicate reassembling. The ILS MSH also has that extra hole for the dissassembly tool.

A New MSH is not very expensive. They flat, wedge, and arched shape to see which one fits best for you. When you bring the gun up from the low ready the sights should already be aligned for elevation. If the front sight is low you need an arched MSH. If the front sight is high you need a flat MSH. wedge shaped is the middle ground.



Nope, the ILS housings have the capability to accept the mainspring cap pin. It is recessed on the back side for the pin head. Except for the locking drum, it is identical to a standard housing. SA had the foresight to include the possibility of owners to convert their guns back to standard MSH specs.

GunDraw, as far as mainspring weights, 19# is a reduced power spring that gives light trigger pull, but still has enough juice to pop a primer consistently. 20# is a little more powerful, and 23# is the original OEM and military strength.

All of the parts you listed are just fine and is all you really need to do the swap. The SA manual should have the directions inside on how to disassemble the MSH.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 6:41:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Gooch:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By GunDraw:
Now I don't HAVE to change MSH right??



I dont think the ILS MSH has the hole for the mainspring cap pin. that would complicate reassembling. The ILS MSH also has that extra hole for the dissassembly tool.

A New MSH is not very expensive. They flat, wedge, and arched shape to see which one fits best for you. When you bring the gun up from the low ready the sights should already be aligned for elevation. If the front sight is low you need an arched MSH. If the front sight is high you need a flat MSH. wedge shaped is the middle ground.



Nope, the ILS housings have the capability to accept the mainspring cap pin. It is recessed on the back side for the pin head. Except for the locking drum, it is identical to a standard housing. SA had the foresight to include the possibility of owners to convert their guns back to standard MSH specs.





Good to know. Does the locking drum have to be removed during the coversion or is it left alone? Any chance of the lcoking drum causing a malfunction after the conversion?
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 8:19:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 9:46:07 AM EDT by The_Gooch]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Good to know. Does the locking drum have to be removed during the coversion or is it left alone? Any chance of the lcoking drum causing a malfunction after the conversion?



I dont think the drum can be removed easily, but it does not matter. Just leave the drum alone, it no longer does anything. A standard mainspring cap is not affected by the drum. The only way the drum was able to lock up the action was to lock into the groove cut into the special ILS mainspring cap. Since a standard cap has no groove for it to lock, and also that it is held below the drum by the mainspring cap pin, the drum never makes contact with the cap during operation.

ETA:
Actually I was wrong about this. The drum is below the cap pin. But still, the standard cap cant be locked by the ILS drum as it does not have the groove.



I took a pic of my old ILS housing and the guts that I took out of it. Next to the ILS assembly is a standard cap.
Link Posted: 12/18/2005 9:01:03 PM EDT
Hey, thank you for all the info guys. I greatly appreciate it. Next order to Midway and those items will be on their way.

Thanks again,
Gundraw
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:49:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/19/2005 9:49:38 AM EDT by The_Gooch]
Bump for the edit I made to my post above and added picture.
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