Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 9/10/2010 6:16:19 PM EDT
I am looking at a few budget guns so I can shoot without feeling guilty. I currently have a Colt Compact in 45 ACP that I don't want to shoot a lot or carry every day. I am not new to 1911's but I am new to all the budget guns.The cheapest I have bought in the past were several Norincos I bought to build but nothing ready to go. Now I am thinking I can save a bit of money and time by getting a budget gun with most things I would want. I know they are not going to be $1000+ guns but I do want the best bang for the buck.

The two I am looking at are the Rock Island Tactical and the American Classic II. Both are in the same price range and have similar features for the money. I do want a 9mm for cost savings but I also want the best gun I can get in the sub $500 range even if it isn't 9mm.

I am wanting a 9mm but the American Classic isn't available in 9mm but the fit and finish seems to be a lot better than the RIA. On the other hand the RIA is avaiable in 9mm but doesn't seem to have the same fit and finish as the American Classic.

If the American Classic is hands above the RIA then I will stick with 45 ACP but if they are about the same them it will definitely be the RIA in 9mm. I plan on shooting whatever gun I get a lot as well as possible carrying it providing it is dead nuts reliable.

Also, if anyone has had any problems with either please let me know.

Thanks
Dolomite
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:42:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite_Supafly:
I am looking at a few budget guns so I can shoot without feeling guilty. I currently have a Colt Compact in 45 ACP that I don't want to shoot a lot or carry every day. I am not new to 1911's but I am new to all the budget guns.The cheapest I have bought in the past were several Norincos I bought to build but nothing ready to go. Now I am thinking I can save a bit of money and time by getting a budget gun with most things I would want. I know they are not going to be $1000+ guns but I do want the best bang for the buck.

The two I am looking at are the Rock Island Tactical and the American Classic II. Both are in the same price range and have similar features for the money. I do want a 9mm for cost savings but I also want the best gun I can get in the sub $500 range even if it isn't 9mm.

I am wanting a 9mm but the American Classic isn't available in 9mm but the fit and finish seems to be a lot better than the RIA. On the other hand the RIA is avaiable in 9mm but doesn't seem to have the same fit and finish as the American Classic.

If the American Classic is hands above the RIA then I will stick with 45 ACP but if they are about the same them it will definitely be the RIA in 9mm. I plan on shooting whatever gun I get a lot as well as possible carrying it providing it is dead nuts reliable.

Also, if anyone has had any problems with either please let me know.

Thanks
Dolomite

IIRC they are both made by Armscor. I think they are basically the same gun.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 7:40:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 7:43:48 PM EDT by Dolomite_Supafly]
Originally Posted By 19119640:

Originally Posted By Dolomite_Supafly:
I am looking at a few budget guns so I can shoot without feeling guilty. I currently have a Colt Compact in 45 ACP that I don't want to shoot a lot or carry every day. I am not new to 1911's but I am new to all the budget guns.The cheapest I have bought in the past were several Norincos I bought to build but nothing ready to go. Now I am thinking I can save a bit of money and time by getting a budget gun with most things I would want. I know they are not going to be $1000+ guns but I do want the best bang for the buck.

The two I am looking at are the Rock Island Tactical and the American Classic II. Both are in the same price range and have similar features for the money. I do want a 9mm for cost savings but I also want the best gun I can get in the sub $500 range even if it isn't 9mm.

I am wanting a 9mm but the American Classic isn't available in 9mm but the fit and finish seems to be a lot better than the RIA. On the other hand the RIA is avaiable in 9mm but doesn't seem to have the same fit and finish as the American Classic.

If the American Classic is hands above the RIA then I will stick with 45 ACP but if they are about the same them it will definitely be the RIA in 9mm. I plan on shooting whatever gun I get a lot as well as possible carrying it providing it is dead nuts reliable.

Also, if anyone has had any problems with either please let me know.

Thanks
Dolomite

IIRC they are both made by Armscor. I think they are basically the same gun.


The RIA's are made by Armscore while the AC's are made by Metro Arms. Both made in the Phillipines but in different factories.

Since posting I have talked to a few people who say the AC has a better fit so I may be getting a 45 ACP and be done with it. As I said I would prefer a 9mm but I am set up to load 45 ACP so that can defer the costs some. It is the fact that I shoot ALOT that makes me leary. Just this week I went thru about 750 9mm rounds. This isn't a normal week but a normal week for me is at least 200 rounds. The cost difference, even if I reload, is going to be substantial. I have my compact in 45 ACP as well as a Savage bolt action in 45 ACP so it might be worth it because of the other 45 ACP guns I have.

Thanks again for your response
Dolomite
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 10:53:24 AM EDT
I'd get the RIA as it has a pretty decent track record of function and customer service.

That said, if I was looking for a good, reliable 1911 for inexpensive that was 9mm, I'd drop the slightly more cash for a STI Spartan in 9mm.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:47:06 AM EDT
If shooting the gun you have will devalue it less than the cost of a "budget" gun- shoot the good gun. Plus you get the joy of shooting the good gun. If its no a uber-rare collector piece, why leave a virgin gun to your next of kin?
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:51:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite_Supafly:
Originally Posted By 19119640:

Originally Posted By Dolomite_Supafly:
I am looking at a few budget guns so I can shoot without feeling guilty. I currently have a Colt Compact in 45 ACP that I don't want to shoot a lot or carry every day. I am not new to 1911's but I am new to all the budget guns.The cheapest I have bought in the past were several Norincos I bought to build but nothing ready to go. Now I am thinking I can save a bit of money and time by getting a budget gun with most things I would want. I know they are not going to be $1000+ guns but I do want the best bang for the buck.

The two I am looking at are the Rock Island Tactical and the American Classic II. Both are in the same price range and have similar features for the money. I do want a 9mm for cost savings but I also want the best gun I can get in the sub $500 range even if it isn't 9mm.

I am wanting a 9mm but the American Classic isn't available in 9mm but the fit and finish seems to be a lot better than the RIA. On the other hand the RIA is avaiable in 9mm but doesn't seem to have the same fit and finish as the American Classic.

If the American Classic is hands above the RIA then I will stick with 45 ACP but if they are about the same them it will definitely be the RIA in 9mm. I plan on shooting whatever gun I get a lot as well as possible carrying it providing it is dead nuts reliable.

Also, if anyone has had any problems with either please let me know.

Thanks
Dolomite

IIRC they are both made by Armscor. I think they are basically the same gun.


The RIA's are made by Armscore while the AC's are made by Metro Arms. Both made in the Phillipines but in different factories.

Since posting I have talked to a few people who say the AC has a better fit so I may be getting a 45 ACP and be done with it. As I said I would prefer a 9mm but I am set up to load 45 ACP so that can defer the costs some. It is the fact that I shoot ALOT that makes me leary. Just this week I went thru about 750 9mm rounds. This isn't a normal week but a normal week for me is at least 200 rounds. The cost difference, even if I reload, is going to be substantial. I have my compact in 45 ACP as well as a Savage bolt action in 45 ACP so it might be worth it because of the other 45 ACP guns I have.

Thanks again for your response
Dolomite


Where did you hear they are made in different plants? All Ive ever heard is all the Phillipines 1911s are made in the same place and the distributor is where the differences lie. Not that they dont order different specs or anything which seems the case.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:35:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 12:36:20 PM EDT by Danno_man]
Here are the 3 different companies in the Philippines

Armscor

Metro Arms

SAM (Shooters Arms Manufacturing)
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 5:49:15 PM EDT
I had a chance to compare the American Classic and a RIA side by side in a local shop. The American Classic is finished a little nicer and the fit is better. I liked the sights on the American Classic, they were a step up from the RIA. But I don't think you would go wrong with either. The RIAs have a very good reputation among their owners and RIA service is supposed to be excellent.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 2:08:07 AM EDT
I picked up an American Classic. I am very pleased with it for the price.

Dolomite
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 4:32:15 AM EDT
good that you found the 1911 for your budget but what is your rationale behind:

Originally Posted By Dolomite_Supafly:
I am looking at a few budget guns so I can shoot without feeling guilty. I currently have a Colt Compact in 45 ACP that I don't want to shoot a lot or carry every day.

why would you feel guilty about shooting a more expensive gun? unless it is a collector piece, the higher price is the result of a higher quality pistol. Do you not shoot the Colt because its a Colt or because you dont like it?

Link Posted: 9/12/2010 6:39:49 AM EDT
I don't want to shoot or CARRY it because it is a Colt. I would rather have a budget gun get dinged and stuff than a Colt. Not saying my COlt is a high end pistol or anything but it will hold more value than my budget gun. For thsi reason I want to try to retain as much of the value as possible.

Dolomite
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 7:09:50 AM EDT
Don't mean to parrot what was said above, but the Colt is more expensive for a reason. It's built with forged parts inside and out.

The Philappino guns are built out of cast, MIM, and extruded parts. They seem to be extremely reliable for their construction, but they are of lessor quality than your Colt.

You're too worried about "collectability" and are now trusting your life to something that is decidedly inferior. If that's ok with you, congrats.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 2:39:57 PM EDT
What is a "Colt Compact"?
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 6:35:46 PM EDT
I have done a lot of research into this. That is why I didn't buy a RIA, they are good also but don't have the same specs I am reading about with the American Classic. Most people I have contacted who have both say the ACII is a better gun than the RIA but that is subjective as well. The American Classics are made in a totally different factory than any other of the budget 1911's coming from the Phillipines. They are mad by Metro Arms in Manilla and is imported by the same group that imports Bersa handguns. I have seen it mentioned on more than a few sites that the frames and slides are made out of 4140 and forged.

The slide to frame fit is magnitudes better than my Colt as is the amount of barrel movement while in battery. The internals look just as good as the Colt and appear identical. I plan on replacing a few things just to make sure they are good but everything looks fine. And for the record there are other major brands using MIM for their internal parts these days.

The only grip I have about the gun is the bluing is a bit thin. But other than that I am happy with spending $475 OTD for it. It places 5 shots touching each other at 15 yards off a bench using factory ammo. I am goin to try to work up some handloads to see if I can improve upon it.

Do I trust it 100%, no at least not yet. It is going to take a lot more rounds before I feel comfortable. In the mean time I will continue to carry the Colt. And just fo the record I have had issues with the Colt and none with the ACII so far. Again, I am early on in the testing and I will not feel comfortable for at least another 300-500 rounds. If I make it that far without a single incident then I will feel comfotable enough to carry it.

Here is a link to the specs:
http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19870

My Colt is a 1991A1 Colt Compact. It is like the one in these pictures.

Dolomite
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 6:45:42 PM EDT
Theyre nice pistols but I really doubt the 1991 will ever be a "collectable". Its a budget priced model that they made tons of. I would use the quality piece if I were going to carry it and buy the RIA as a range beater maybe.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 7:37:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By beltfed74:
Theyre nice pistols but I really doubt the 1991 will ever be a "collectable". Its a budget priced model that they made tons of. I would use the quality piece if I were going to carry it and buy the RIA as a range beater maybe.


I bought the American Classic rather than the RIA based on all the reviews I have read as well as comparisons by people who own both. I really like it for the money, it shoots well and seems well made. Everything fits tight and works well.

Just as a precaution I am going to replace the sear, disconnect and mainspring cap with STI stuff. I am also replacing the springs with Wolff and Clark Custom springs. I have already replaced the trigger with one that is adjustable for take up and overtravel. I am just wating for the new parts to arrive before I do the final fitting of the beavertail safety to the new trigger. As it stands right now the extractor/ejector are tossing the empties about 6 feet and just past the 90 degree mark. I will bevel the bottom edge of it to help with reliability event hough it has run 100%.

After that everything should be good to go but I will keep an eye on everythign else to see if anything else might need replacing as time goes on.

As I have said I am not 100% certain about its reliability yet. But after I get 300-500 trouble free rounds I think it will be ok so long as it runs just as well with the carry ammo.

Dolomite
Top Top