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Posted: 8/29/2010 7:40:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/18/2010 2:16:19 PM EDT by CPTK]
del
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 8:03:26 PM EDT
Soem people are unable to trip the grip safety 100% of the time, due to high grip or other reasons. Many do disable it. Many keep in enabled. Some beleieve that disabling it may open them to legal scrutiny if the weapon is used in a defensive situation.

I say it's all hogwash. If you are satisfied with how it works, so be it. All my grip safeties work. I have no reason to disable them, as I have never had one not activate on me.
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 8:17:19 PM EDT
The sear spring is basically responsible for the grip safety working the way it's intended.

Without seeing the pistol it might be that the right 'leg of the sear spring is not contacting the grip safety.

Take it apart and look at the relation of the sear spring, the right leg specifically with the grip safety, if it's not contacting it try bending it outward ever so slightly.

Unless the previous owner went to pains to disconnect the safety, the sear spring is probably the cause.

A good book , manual for the 1911 to have is:

The Colt .45 a shop manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen

When it comes to modifying or eliminating the grip safety of a 1911, imho this is a bad idea.


Link Posted: 8/30/2010 2:47:57 AM EDT
All my USPSA guns the grip safety does not function. 30 seconds on a belt sander to remove the lug. My CCW 1911s the grip safety functions.

6 of 1 1/2 dozen of another.
Link Posted: 8/30/2010 3:41:52 AM EDT
IIRC, the Kimber's have a flat grip safety. Some people have a hard time engaging the grip safety, so often the inner tang is removed or modified to disengage easier. All it is is a notched piece of metal. Gripping it lifts the tab and allows the trigger bar to move rearward. Another alternative is to add a grip safety with a bump on the bottom.

If you ever decide to shoot it in IDPA, deactivating the grip safety is an illegal modification and will get you DQ'ed.
Link Posted: 8/30/2010 5:42:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 50-140:
The sear spring is basically responsible for the grip safety working the way it's intended.

Without seeing the pistol it might be that the right 'leg of the sear spring is not contacting the grip safety.

Take it apart and look at the relation of the sear spring, the right leg specifically with the grip safety, if it's not contacting it try bending it outward ever so slightly.

Unless the previous owner went to pains to disconnect the safety, the sear spring is probably the cause.

A good book , manual for the 1911 to have is:

The Colt .45 a shop manual by Jerry Kuhnhausen

When it comes to modifying or eliminating the grip safety of a 1911, imho this is a bad idea.




Doesn't that leg of the spring simply act to keep the grip safety engaged (pushed out)? The leg on the grip safety is actually what locks the sear, right?
Link Posted: 8/30/2010 6:39:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/30/2010 6:39:42 AM EDT
It isn't any less safe than a glock but you bought a 1911 so you decide how you want it to function. I ccw with a 1911 every day and I haven't disabled any safeties...not even then swartz safety. My grip deactivates anything that would keep the gun from going bang so they don't bother me. My biggest concern would be who did the work to disable it and what it did to the over all reliability.
Link Posted: 8/30/2010 6:59:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FredMan:
Originally Posted By 50-140:

Doesn't that leg of the spring simply act to keep the grip safety engaged (pushed out)? The leg on the grip safety is actually what locks the sear, right?


Yes, the sear spring only keeps the grip safety pushed out. However, if it doesn't push out "far enough", the grip safety is "always" deactivated.

OP, if there is free play between where the sear spring starts to push on the grip safety, and the hard stops between the grip safety and the MSH, then you need to play with the spring a little to push the grip safety out further.

If there is no play, meaning the sear spring is pushing the grip safety out as far as the MSH allows, then you've got a disabled grip safety.

There's debate on whether you need this thing. IIRC, JMB's "original" design only had a grip safety; no thumb safety. In the Kimber Series II guns, there's a firing pin safety that is tied to the grip safety... some would say that as long as that safety works, that's all you'd need, even if the "original" grip safety is disabled.

Personally, I'd make sure that it works, replacing the part if necessary.
Link Posted: 8/30/2010 1:51:02 PM EDT
Is the polymer main spring housing still there or has it been replaced. The mainspring housing that is not properly fit can hold the grip safety down and basically deactivate it due to it not going out far enough.
Link Posted: 8/30/2010 2:41:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EKUJustice:
Is the polymer main spring housing still there or has it been replaced. The mainspring housing that is not properly fit can hold the grip safety down and basically deactivate it due to it not going out far enough.


the grip safety springs out and goes in as it should
I think it was disabled on purpose
either way I don't like having an extra safety
if locked and cocked is safe enough I'll keep it the way it is - with a non functioning grip safety
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:47:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
Originally Posted By FredMan:
Originally Posted By 50-140:

Doesn't that leg of the spring simply act to keep the grip safety engaged (pushed out)? The leg on the grip safety is actually what locks the sear, right?


Yes, the sear spring only keeps the grip safety pushed out. However, if it doesn't push out "far enough", the grip safety is "always" deactivated.

OP, if there is free play between where the sear spring starts to push on the grip safety, and the hard stops between the grip safety and the MSH, then you need to play with the spring a little to push the grip safety out further.

If there is no play, meaning the sear spring is pushing the grip safety out as far as the MSH allows, then you've got a disabled grip safety.

There's debate on whether you need this thing. IIRC, JMB's "original" design only had a grip safety; no thumb safety. In the Kimber Series II guns, there's a firing pin safety that is tied to the grip safety... some would say that as long as that safety works, that's all you'd need, even if the "original" grip safety is disabled.

Personally, I'd make sure that it works, replacing the part if necessary.

Actually JMB was forced to put the grip safety on at the behest of the army not the thumb safety. Some of his earlier designs actually didn't have a thumb safety, either.

In a Kimber, the grip safety not only blocks the trigger, it disengages the firing pin stop. Who ever modified it hopefully knew what they were doing. Have you fired it yet ? If not, you can do a quick check by putting a pencil down the bbl, eraser end first and dry firing. It should shoot the pencil up (pointing the pistol up, of course.

Khunhausen's book is a must have if you care about 1911s at all.

The IDPA rule gives me one more reason that I won't play with those guys. It's like they invented the rules to trip up shooters so they can feel superior. I'm surprised they don't tell you which side of your mouth your tounge must hang out when making a difficult shot.

I think the whole legal aspect is over blown as far as a defensive shooting goes. It's in the same boat as using reloads. I personally don't and I'd rather have a more stock gun when standing in front of a jury, if it came to that (marginal circumstances around the shooting). I think for the most part, at least in my state, it's either a good shoot or not. I've always had mixed feelings about this sort of topic. You could go so far as to not use hollow points because you don't want the PA to accuse you of being out to kill somebody with your evil man killer bullets.

I think the legal issue would be, IF you sold it to a person and IF that person were to shoot themselves or another and IF it was shown the grip safety was at fault (not to mention failing at the 4 rules of firearms handling ...but we know how juries are) and IF it was proven in court that you knew about the safety issue and or actually deactivated it THEN MAYBE you could be held liable in some fasion.

I would think the person who sold you the gun should have told you the GS was deactivated in the interest of the above paragraph. If you decided to sell it, I'd recomend disclosing the info.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:48:00 AM EDT
I took the gun out to shoot today and put about 50 rds through it.

When the grip safety was not pressed all the way down the hammer was able to fire but the pistol didnt shoot.

The mags fed well and there was a bullet in the chamber but no bang

I had to hold the grip safety firm and then it fired with out any problem

Is there something wrong with it?
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 10:57:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CPTK:
I took the gun out to shoot today and put about 50 rds through it.

When the grip safety was not pressed all the way down the hammer was able to fire but the pistol didnt shoot.

The mags fed well and there was a bullet in the chamber but no bang

I had to hold the grip safety firm and then it fired with out any problem

Is there something wrong with it?


Firing pin safety... JD
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 11:35:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 11:36:52 AM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]

Originally Posted By jackd1:
Originally Posted By CPTK:
I took the gun out to shoot today and put about 50 rds through it.

When the grip safety was not pressed all the way down the hammer was able to fire but the pistol didnt shoot.

The mags fed well and there was a bullet in the chamber but no bang

I had to hold the grip safety firm and then it fired with out any problem

Is there something wrong with it?


Firing pin safety... JD


+1

Sounds like they de-activated the grip safety (so it doesn't block the trigger from moving rearward), but they left the firing pin safety intact (it's grip safety activated on Kimber's).

When you're not moving the grip safety much, the firing pin safety isn't moving enough to let the firing pin move freely.

The easiest way to fix it is to get a good grip on the gun every time, or take the firing pin safety out.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 3:58:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By jackd1:
Originally Posted By CPTK:
I took the gun out to shoot today and put about 50 rds through it.

When the grip safety was not pressed all the way down the hammer was able to fire but the pistol didnt shoot.

The mags fed well and there was a bullet in the chamber but no bang

I had to hold the grip safety firm and then it fired with out any problem

Is there something wrong with it?


Firing pin safety... JD


+1

Sounds like they de-activated the grip safety (so it doesn't block the trigger from moving rearward), but they left the firing pin safety intact (it's grip safety activated on Kimber's).

When you're not moving the grip safety much, the firing pin safety isn't moving enough to let the firing pin move freely.

The easiest way to fix it is to get a good grip on the gun every time, or take the firing pin safety out.


This . . . . JD



Link Posted: 9/4/2010 4:01:57 PM EDT
is the reason for this so you dont have to keep it locked and cocked

if the hammer doesnt detonate the ammo unless the grip safety is depressed why do you have to keep the thumb safety on (locked and cocked).

it there an advantage to it?

not having to worry about the safety is good if the hammer doesnt detonate the round accidentally

the only thing I didnt like about this is that I had to grip it tighter and my right thumb had to be lower on the grip (Im right handed). Kind of interfered with my left hand - if you know what I mean.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 4:11:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 4:12:21 PM EDT by jackd1]
Originally Posted By CPTK:
is the reason for this so you dont have to keep it locked and cocked

if the hammer doesnt detonate the ammo unless the grip safety is depressed why do you have to keep the thumb safety on (locked and cocked).

it there an advantage to it?

not having to worry about the safety is good if the hammer doesnt detonate the round accidentally

the only thing I didnt like about this is that I had to grip it tighter and my right thumb had to be lower on the grip (Im right handed). Kind of interfered with my left hand - if you know what I mean.


Before you make any decisions about safe methods for gun handling/storage, I would suggest you have someone familiar with 1911s (like a good smith) check to see if anything has been fubared inside. JD

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:48:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CPTK:
I just picked up a used Kimber 1911 but the grip safety doesnt work - the trigger/hammer still fires if not depressed. I was told that some modify the 1911 so they dont work. Is this needed? I prefer not having another safety to deal with other than the thumb safety to keep it locked and cocked.

I'm new to the 1911's but love the way they feel - just dont know much about them.

Please advise.

CPTK


The Swartz safety system in the Kimber II series requires full depression of the grip safety to actuate a lever in the frame which raises to depress a plunger in your slide, unlocking the firing pin and allowing the pistol to fire. As stated earlier, this appears to be functioning in your piece. Your grip safety is not blocking the trigger bar. This happens sometimes when aftermarket triggers are installed, improperly fitted, or, the thing can just be broken, or intentionally ground off.

The downside to this safety system, is that if your grip is not optomized on the pistol, the grip safety tab can be clear of the trigger bar, allowing the hammer to drop, but not fully raising the frame lever...result...no shot...you could be dead. I have seen this happen to Kimber guys in IPSC matches (well, they didn't die...)

This "safety" , supposedly idiot proofs the pistol should you drop it on its muzzle. I took mine out, for the above reasons. The Colt series 80 system is also a firing pin block, but slightly different in its design. To get rid of the Kimber Swartz, you must remove the rear sight. This can be difficult for some folks. The quick and easy way is to simply install a Colt Series 70, or GI firing pin. This effectively bypasses the firing pin block. It is a better option, if you ever want to return the pistol to box stock condition for resale or whatever.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:57:08 PM EDT
I have almost the same problem with my STI Spartan. If I squeeze the trigger just right, it would release the trigger without the grip safety being depressed. I dis-assembled the gun and examined the action closely. I noted that the grip safety had NOT been filed to bypass it. I did discover that the trigger had just enough play in it in it's groove to twist down and just make it past the grip safety spur. I understand that the Spartan is STI's "entry level" gun, and it is actually made in the Phillipines, but this lack of quality control is unacceptable. No help from STI was forthcoming. I figured I would try a different trigger, because there is no way I would ever sell a gun that had a defective safety. The last thing I want to do is buy a lawyer his next BMW. Any other suggestions?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 1:33:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZgunnut1:
I have almost the same problem with my STI Spartan. If I squeeze the trigger just right, it would release the trigger without the grip safety being depressed. I dis-assembled the gun and examined the action closely. I noted that the grip safety had NOT been filed to bypass it. I did discover that the trigger had just enough play in it in it's groove to twist down and just make it past the grip safety spur. I understand that the Spartan is STI's "entry level" gun, and it is actually made in the Phillipines, but this lack of quality control is unacceptable. No help from STI was forthcoming. I figured I would try a different trigger, because there is no way I would ever sell a gun that had a defective safety. The last thing I want to do is buy a lawyer his next BMW. Any other suggestions?


Thin the back of the grip safety flange and/or the mainspring housing ledge in order to allow the grip safety to move further back under spring pressure. If the engagement is pretty close to working, you should be able to obtain enough additional movement of the grip safety to allow the grip safety arm to block the trigger bow.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:38:17 PM EDT
Thanks Ken! It worked. Sorry to hijack the thread, but I thought it was pertinent.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:18:35 PM EDT
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