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Posted: 11/11/2003 9:47:35 PM EDT
okay, i just got the Storm, and now i'm considering getting a 92F to round out the "beretta rig," since the mags are interchangeable. but here's my question...is the 92F even worth making a fuss about?

PROS:
prestige of being military issue M9
easy availability to parts
plentiful ammo

CONS:
9mm ain't really worth a damn
crappy trigger pull
inaccurate, all 92Fs shoot low

what do you guys all think? any other pros and cons i left out? i'm close to buying one, like tomorrow, maybe...

Link Posted: 11/12/2003 4:36:46 AM EDT
All 92's are NOT inaccurate, and they do NOT all shoot low. I don't know where you are getting your info from.

If you want a DA hi-cap capable 9mm that is sort of big and heavy, but accurate and reliable, then a 92 is a good bet. Ditto the Sig P226. I hesitate to say a CZ because some recent examples I have seen are just deplorable in finish and trigger pull.

And, BTW, there is no "mystique" associated with being the M9 pistol. Lots of people have an overly hostile opinion of it for just that reason.

The 92 is a decent 9mm pistol. Hardly the ultimate, but properly maintained it will probably outlive anything you have planned for it by a comfortable margin.

Link Posted: 11/12/2003 5:13:25 AM EDT
You watch to much TV and read to much internet hype my friend.

You are not even close to any good reason to buy any weapon.

Figure that out before you buy anything.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 11:29:27 AM EDT
I have about 1000 rounds through my 92 vertec and I love it. Never had a problem, and it shoot right on. Infact I have an Elite IA on its way
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 11:39:43 AM EDT
shoot low???? inaccurate????

The 92fs is known as being one of the most accurate 9mm's out there. Trust me, the gun shoots alot better than you ever will...same goes for me.

Also, trigger pull can be remedied with 2 parts. A lighter hammer spring, and the wolff redesigned trigger spring. Cost me 25 dollars for the two, and dropped my trigger pull atleast 2-3 lbs. And to be totally honest, the 20 dollar trigger spring isnt even necessary.

Just buy the new hammer spring, and you'll make a HUGE difference. Another common trigger mod is to buy the "D" model hammer spring, but the wolff I mentioned is a bit lighter.

I wouldnt trade this gun for anything in the world, except for maybe a brigadier slide, and a rail. NOT THE VERTEC, but I cannot remember the name. Its a standard 92 frame with a rail.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 11:41:40 AM EDT
I own a 92FS and love it. Have NEVER had any of the "problems" that are rumored. And as far as the 9MM goes, if John Moses Browning thought highly enough of it to build a handgun around it (the HiPower) I trust it.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 11:50:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 1:31:33 PM EDT
OOOOHHH, not to forget, you can pretend your jackie chan or jet li and impress your friends with your ability to take the gun apart really fast!!!!

The size and weight of the beretta arent really a problem unless you plan on carrying it. When I read large and heavy, I get the image of a gun that would be uncomforable to shoot at a range outing for more than a hundred rounds or so, and feel you should know this is not the case. Its really not that heavy, but it is a full framed handgun.

Very accurate, very reliable, and it will always go bang with ammunition that wants to. Good choice for a plinker, target practice, or home defense if 9mm cartridge is your choice.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 1:45:41 PM EDT
I LOVE the 92FS

92FS's are more accurate than most 9mms.

While 9mm BALL is inferior to .45 BALL, there is very little difference between the best defensive hollowpoints in each flavor.

While mine did indeed shoot low, that was more due to my bad habits as a shooter than the gun, because my dad was able to put the rounds dead center.

I had no problem with the DA trigger pull, and SA was a JOY compared to the Glocks and the Luger I'd been shooting.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 1:55:41 PM EDT
Most people have already accurately pointed out that your assumptions about inaccuracy and shooting low were off base.

I have shot sever 92fs's and dozens of M9's - none have ever shot low and all were among the most accurate pistols I have shot. I would put only my tricked out 1911 on par with them for accuracy.

That being said, many are VERY picky about cycling with anything but a firm hold - thus women and anyone shooting stressed, one handed (especially weak-handed) engagements are likely to experience a "limp-wrist" related failure to feed. This can be remedied to a point with lubrication, but that is exactly what you do not want to have to rely on in a desert or arctic environment.

The weapons also has a ridiculously large grip for a 9mm, making it even more difficult for small men and women to fire well.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 5:59:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
The weapons also has a ridiculously large grip for a 9mm, making it even more difficult for small men and women to fire well.

A problem which is solved by the newer Vertec model pistols.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 6:12:53 PM EDT
I am not fond of semiautomatic handguns that incorporate slide mounted safeties.

Be well!
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 7:10:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
The weapons also has a ridiculously large grip for a 9mm, making it even more difficult for small men and women to fire well.

A problem which is solved by the newer Vertec model pistols.



Some "solution."

I will call it a solution when it can be retrofitted to the M9's already distributed throughout the military. Until then, it is a new pistol, entirely separate from the issue at hand.

Sorry the grips are too big for you to properly shoot this pistol worth a damn, MAJ Smith, but rest asured that the new (20 years too late) Beretta Vertec pistols don't have this problem .
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 10:24:34 PM EDT
Thats where the Sig M11 comes into play...

So its not 20 years too late. They already have an alternative.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 10:34:14 PM EDT
I have a 92F, mostly in keeping with the US Military weapons theme I have going on with my collection.

In all fairness, it is reliable, fun and accurate. Parts are available and mags are semi affordable.

I do not like it as a carry piece due to the slide mounted safety (It's a reach, plus it's push up for fire which is opposite my carry weapons (1911/USP)) and 9mm is not the greatest for personal protection.

Link Posted: 11/13/2003 3:59:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Marksman14:
Thats where the Sig M11 comes into play...

So its not 20 years too late. They already have an alternative.



You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. You can't just turn an M9 into an M11 - most units TOE call for M9s, that is what we have. that is what we have to make do with. I have only seen M11s on VERY rare occasions, and we can't exactly "trade-in" an M9 for an M11.
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 4:33:32 AM EDT
I have had a 92 for a long time now. Other than trying to hide the beefy grip for CCW, It has been a great weapon. I have around 8,000 to 10,000 rounds through the old girl now. I can count the jams on one hand. It is a solid good shooting weapon. It also has the fastest cycle time of any 9mm.
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 4:47:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Sorry the grips are too big for you to properly shoot this pistol worth a damn, MAJ Smith, but rest asured that the new (20 years too late) Beretta Vertec pistols don't have this problem .


Your sour grapes over the M9 that was selected 20 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with what off-the-shelf pistol a person decides to spend their money on today, especially since I've seen plenty of people with small hands who could handle the M9/92FS just fine. The Vertec is an excellent pistol that is more comfortable for people with smaller hands and also allows magazine compatability with the Beretta CX4 Storm carbine which the original poster referred to.
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 4:52:05 AM EDT
Slide mounted controls do not belong on a combat pistol.

Period!

End of discussion.
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 5:21:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Sorry the grips are too big for you to properly shoot this pistol worth a damn, MAJ Smith, but rest asured that the new (20 years too late) Beretta Vertec pistols don't have this problem .


Your sour grapes over the M9 that was selected 20 years ago has absolutely nothing to do with what off-the-shelf pistol a person decides to spend their money on today, especially since I've seen plenty of people with small hands who could handle the M9/92FS just fine. The Vertec is an excellent pistol that is more comfortable for people with smaller hands and also allows magazine compatability with the Beretta CX4 Storm carbine which the original poster referred to.



I have no sour grapes - I am simply trying to keep the subject on track. We are talking about the 92FS / M9. That is the pistol the original poster asked about.

All this talk about vertecs and M11s (a Sig, not even a Beretta) has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand.

If you are recommending the original poster get a vertec, as opposed to a 92FS, then I understand. To say that somehow the vertec "solved" problems with the M9, making the M9 thus a now more ideal pistol, just sounds pretty ridiculous.
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 5:42:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2003 5:45:05 PM EDT by Hoplophile]

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
All this talk about vertecs and M11s (a Sig, not even a Beretta) has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand.

If you are recommending the original poster get a vertec, as opposed to a 92FS, then I understand. To say that somehow the vertec "solved" problems with the M9, making the M9 thus a now more ideal pistol, just sounds pretty ridiculous.

Like I already said, the M9 has nothing to do with this because he's not in the military. Beretta makes several variations of the model 92. There's compact models that make it more ideal for concealed carry. There's the Elite series that make it more ideal for competition. There's the 'D' model pistols that make it more ideal for those who want double-action only. There's the 'G' models that make it more ideal for those who want decock only. There's the Brigadier series that make it more ideal for those who want a heavier slide. There's the model 96 that makes it more ideal for those who want a .40 indead of a 9mm. There's the model 98 that makes it ideal for those who are not allowed to have 9mm. There's the 93R that makes it ideal for those who want a machine pistol. And there's models of the above that use the Vertec frame that are a more ideal version for those who want a smaller grip and a full length barrel and 15 round mags or who don't care about the grip but want a Beretta that has a light rail on the front and has a dovetailed front sight so that it is easier to install aftermarket sights.

All of those are more ideal than the stock M9/92FS for one purpose or another, all of the 9mm versions listed above except the compact models are relevent to this discussion because they all accept the same 15rd mags as the CX4 Storm carbine, and trying to exclude them from the discussion because they are not on your unit's TOE just sounds pretty ridiculous.
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 5:47:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sir_osis_of_thuliver:
...i'm considering getting a 92F...is the 92F even worth making a fuss about?

PROS:
prestige of being military issue M9
...




We are obviously interpreting this differently. I may just be ignorant of the current offerings from Beretta, but I got the impression he was asking about one specific pistol.
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 9:34:39 PM EDT
sorry if i caused a bit of a ruckus. to update, i went ahead and got the 92F 9mm and took it to the range yesterday. here's what i have learned so far:

1. it's a dream to shoot. very smooth and almost no recoil.

2. it is VERY accurate, so i hereby take back the complaints of innaccuracy - some of my friends are ARMY and they've dissed the M9 to me before.

3. the grip is indeed full size. way too big for CCW, but that's not what i got it for anyway.

4. despite the large grip, it fits and feels great in the hand. and it really is a shooter's dream.

5. SA trigger pull is definitely heavy, but in most of the shooting scenarios i'll encounter with this weapon, it will always be DA anyway, so who cares about the trigger pull. although thanks goes to Marksman14 for pointing me in the right direction to improve that if i so choose.

6. i looked at the vertec, but i have no use for the rail. a cool design, to be sure, but not for me. i already have something else lined up for home defense anyways.

7. the takedown of the 92F is about as simple as it gets. a definite plus.

suffice to say that i'm ecstatic about this new purchase. it won't take the place of my HK USPc .40 or Kimber Eclipse Pro II, but it'll sure be fun as a target pistol along with its biggger brother Storm carbine.

as for "not being even close to any good reason to buy any weapon," WTF??? get over yourself, dude. before you deign to condescend to someone you don't even know, i buy guns because 1) i CAN, 2) i think they're hella cool, and 3) shooting is FUN FUN FUN. and really, when you come right down to it, are there any more reasons necessary beyond that?
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 4:18:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sir_osis_of_thuliver:

2. it is VERY accurate, so i hereby take back the complaints of innaccuracy - some of my friends are ARMY and they've dissed the M9 to me before.



If I had known you had heard that from soldiers, I could have explained why. 95% of Army M9 shooters do not know how to shoot a pistol. I would bet my bars that everyone who complains that it "shoots low" is anticipating the recoil. Getting dummy rounds in the Army is impossible - i've tried for 5 years now (ended up buying my own), so ball and dummy drills are simply not done, thus few people realize this until they are willing to be coached by an asshole like me. Equally few are willing to be coached, when they think they already know everything.

It would likely amaze them how much better they shoot if they actually keep the front sight in view as the trigger breaks .
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 9:06:56 AM EDT
I infact do know what I am talking about... The M11 is there for persons with small hands that cannot effectively handle the M9. Isn't that what it was introduced for? The fact that you have never seen one, or rarely see one means NOTHING.

If you can handle a beretta, you get a beretta. If they introduced the vertec frame, do you REALLY think you'd be able to just trade in for one of those frames? Nope!! It would be just as "hard to get" or "rare" as the M11.

You're putting words into my mouth (or posts), and then claiming they are wrong.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 9:11:59 AM EDT
Regardless, I am done debating any of this useless BS that will get us no where.

Sir osis, I am glad that I could help you out with the trigger. It really does make a difference, and is something I would recommend to all beretta owners.

If you put on a set of hogue grips, it will make the 92 even more comfortable. Its my favorite "feeling" handgun with a nice set of hogues. Fits my hands perfectly.
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