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Posted: 10/7/2003 12:22:00 PM EDT
what is a good pistol for IPSC type shooting? i don't have enough for a 1911, as much as i would love to have one. my price range leans more towards glocks, rugers, SA XD series, maybe berettas, etc. thanks for your help. this is a repost from the Competitive Shooting section because no one ever goes there.
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 1:02:09 PM EDT
Get a Glock 35 or 34.

I assume you mean USPSA because that's what we play in the USA. IPSC is what is played internationally. I often refer to USPSA as IPSC because it's easier to say, but the rules are a little different.

The Glock is the 2nd most popular gun to the double stack 1911's (aka 2011's). It has high capacity, low bore axis, and a short trigger reset. It's a high capacity gun made to shoot fast.

The glock 34, and 35 have a longer sight radius so you can shoot accurately more easily, but it also has a lightened slide so it cycles faster. The guns pretty much come competition ready, and the only thing you really need to do is polish the connector and you have a light 3 lbs trigger. You can further re-spring the gun to get a even better trigger. Almost all the modifications on the glock are do it yoursel drop in parts, and there are a lot of race parts for glock guns such as mag wells and tungsen guide rods, etc. Really all you need to do is resping the gun, maybe some good aftermarket sights, and high caps with extension if your shooting limited division. The glock 22, and 17 can be used too, but you'll need to make some mods like extended mag release, and 3.5# connector that the 34, 35 come standard with.

The Spingfeild xd 9 is interesting because you can use xd 40 mags loaded with 9mm. Thus you have cheap and legal high caps. Unfortunately it only holds 15+1 and you can put on extended basepads because your modifying a post ban mag. For USPSA/IPSC you really need high caps of 16+1 or greater. The reason is because it's usually arrays of 4 targets, thus if you had a 16+1 gun you can engage 2 arrays of targets (8 targets, 2 shots each) and still have a round in the pipe so your gun doesn't go into slide lock. With a 15+1 gun you either go into slide lock, or you do a standing reload. Ideally you want to do a reload while moving towards the next array of targets. To sum it up anything less than 16+1 is not much of a advantage than 10 round mags. The glock high cap with extension is 23+1 in 9mm, and 20+1 in .40, thus you have room to pick up shots you missed, or whatever.

The Berettas are OK, and some of the cops at our range shoot them. You can get 17 round mags in 9mm, but the .40 you will need a 15 round plus extension. The only extensions I know are some cheap quality +2's. There really are not a lot of race parts for the berettas. The cops that shoot them complain that the pins on the gun break or come loose every 5000 or so rounds.

I do't know of anyone that shoots the rugers, but they are cheap and high caps can be had. thus there is no reason you could't run on in USPSA, but there are better guns out there.

I would get a glock, in 9mm or .40. There is the power factor thing, but at this point don't worry about that. If you buy factory ammo then get a 9mm. It's so cheap to shoot. If you reload, or plan to be serious get a .40. The .40 makes major power factor, or can be downloaded to make minor and be even softer shooting than 9mm factory.

You'll also need a holster, belt, mag carriers, and 4-6 10round mags, or 2-3 high caps and 1 10 round mag. for holsters a $20 Uncle Mikes or Galico with adj tension screw will work. Don't get a fobus holster. It grips the gun too tight and will hurt your draw. Use a stiff dress belt until you get arround to getting a CR Speed High Torque belt.

Link Posted: 10/7/2003 1:40:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 3:44:41 PM EDT
Well he did say he could not quite afford a 1911. A STI single stack is at least $1000, and he'll still need holster, belt, mag carriers, and 10 round mags. He'll be stuck in limited 10, and those 10 round mags (good ones)are not cheap, and sometimes need to be tuned. A double stack STI 2011 is at least $1500, and high cap mags with bases are a grip, and must be tuned. About $160 a mag including tuning.

For $1000 you could get in the game with a Glock with high caps.
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 6:30:02 PM EDT
That's why we have the IDPA, so people can shoot with stock guns and equipment and be competitive.
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 6:46:30 PM EDT
A Browning High Power will do you nicely. Hi-caps are plentiful & less than $25 each. The guns are accurate as hell too, at least mine is.

You might want to check out buying a used race gun if you get into it hot & heavy. Some will bump up in classes & no longer shoot their former comp gun.

They should have a newsletter that can help put you in touch with those who might have one for sale.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 9:09:30 PM EDT
The brownings and CZ 75b are not bad. They do need some trigger work, and a beavertail. The hammer bites the heck out of my hand.
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 10:16:55 PM EDT
sorry - I was just blurting things out there... dreaming... i can't afford an STI either.

Get the glock 34 or 35. I have a 34 for speed steel and it was under $600.

Link Posted: 10/8/2003 7:35:50 AM EDT
Strongly agree with above....My G-34 does me well in IDPA/defence. For me, it's easier to get multiple, rapid hits accurately in this delivery system.
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 8:23:27 AM EDT
Hard to beat a Glock 35 or 34 for the money. I have a tricked out 35 and a stock 35. The 35 can be shot competitively in 3 divisions of USPSA-Limited, Limited 10 and Production.
If you reload or plan to soon get the 35, it's more versatile.
If you don't reload (yet, you will if you get into competitive shooting) get the 34 so you can take advantage of cheap 9mm.
In other words, what Yar said.
TommyB
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 12:53:07 PM EDT
wow. thanks everyone for the great advice. this is exactly what i'm looking for. if anyones else has any suggestion, keep 'em comin'.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 7:59:23 AM EDT
I'm shooting an XD .40 Tactical in USPSA and IDPA. Since I shoot in the Production class, hi cap mags are no benefit since you can't use them. I've also used a Beretta 92FS with pretty fair results.

Others use Glocks but I don't care for them. I have a G17 but have no interest in shooting it.

My XD has a fiber optic front and a black adjustable rear sight. So far this the only mod I've made. The factory trigger smooths up nicely after a few hundred rounds. I shoot lead reloads out of mine, something not recommended in a Glock, at least with the factory barrel. Give the XD a try, I think you'll be impressed.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 9:03:25 AM EDT
I like the XD and I think if it becomes more popular for competition, and the AWB sunsets there will be more accessories for it. That may be one thing holding it back from making a push into the competitive matches. I think the trigger is just OK, but the reset is a little long. I hear there are guys doing trigger work on them now. If I were to get a XD it would definately be 9mm.

The glocks really have no problem shooting lead if you follow some specific rules. I shoot molly coated lead (with factory barrel)for steel matches all the time, as well as a number of competitiors at our club.

First you have to clean your barrel every 500 rounds. This is the major thing that people who have had problems with lead may not of done. I've inspected my barrels at 100, 300, and 500 round and even at 500 there is little leading. Still I need 200 rounds at most for a match, and I clean my barrel after each match if I shoot lead.

Second you should not puch your lead faster than 1000 fps. I use a mollycoated 180 grain bullet and only need 916 fps to make the 165 power factor. Although steel maches have no power factor I still shoot major so I don't have to adjust my sights, and like to keep thing similar to what I would shoot in USPSA. If I was serious about steel I should download to the 125 pf floor.

If your really worried about it you could just get a aftermarket barrel to shoot lead. Really in USPSA you'd probably want to use jacket bullets anyway. If you reload the west coast bullets are not much more than lead. I've been using them with very good results.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 9:04:40 AM EDT
This may be a little out of some people’s price range, but here is what I consider the ultimate set up. (Well it's what I'm using at least.)



CR Speed world shoot holster, 3 CR speed Mag pouches, and a CR Speed High Torque Belt. You can see there is an inner and outer belt. The inner belt goes on under the belt loops, then the top belt Velcros on top. That way the belt loops don't interfere with the placement on mag carriers and holster. I set up my mag carriers for the fastest possible mag changes. They are right under where I would naturally drop my hand for sub one second mag changes.


Here is a close up of the gun and holster. The holster is adjustable for drop and angle. It also has spacers to hold the gun away from the body. Basically it's a quick draw rig. The little lever on the side is a lock for when you want to totally secure the gun for when you’re not on the firing line. When unlocked the gun is just retained by the trigger guard by a ramped tab. Very little motion or pull is needed to free the gun, you only need to drawn 1" strait up then it is freed to swing into your shooting stance. I modified the holster with an Arredondo muzzle platform and trimmed the holster at the nose to reduce snagging. The purple thing is part of the Arredondo muzzle platform. There is a "purple thing" on each side actually. One is .40 (the one you can't see because it's in the barrel), and a .45 (the one that is exposed. Mostly it just keeps dirt out of the barrel.


The gun is a Glock 35 with brass mag well, extended tungsten guide rod, 15# recoil spring, JP extended mag release, Dawson fiber optic sights, and Charlie Vanek trigger job that breaks at a incredibly smooth 2.25#'s. Yes I have no problem using this gun as home defense weapon. I would even consider carry duty if I removed the mag well. The gun it totally reliable, and accurate. My criteria for a defense weapon.

The bigger base plates are Arredondo +5's. With the high cap mags I get about 20 rounds of .40 per tube. The one with the brass base pad is a Taylor freelance on a regular 10 rounder. This is my "barney mag" (the mag I use to just load that one round in the pipe, prior to inserting a high cap.) Yes I carry a lot of ammo; most stages call for 32 shots, but can get up to 48. I carry extra incase I get a bad jam, or drop a mag. That way I always have at least one spare.



Another angle where you can see the sights. The fiber optics are super bright. They glow like lasers, and really help you find your sights fast. You can also see how thick the belt is. There is a plastic liner inside that makes the belt super stiff. It has zero movement or twist when your draw your gun or mags. You can also see how far the gun is held away from the body. The mag carriers have a tension thumbscrew to adjust how tight the mags are retained.



Link Posted: 10/9/2003 5:53:28 PM EDT
IDPA = I Don't Practice Anymore

Juuuuuuuust Kiddin fellas!

Get yerself a Glock and go have some fun. The G34 and 35 are your best bet, but (I think) they cost a bit more than the other models. I use a G19 when I shoot "production class". I don't know anything about the new springfields (other than they are the same Croation gun that was sold under a different name a few years ago for $200 less), but you will eventually (trust me on this) give in to the evil impulse to screw with your Glock, and there is an absoulute ton of aftermarket stuff for the Glock.

If you want to continue to save money, get a 9mm but be aware you will be at a competitive disadvantage shooting a smaller caliber....40 is the best for IPSC due to the way the scoring is run.

I use a Glock holster which cost me $9 way back when -- they are a bit more expensive now, so you might broaden your horizons. Look at the holsters Yar mentioned. If you are ready to drop a bit more money go Blade-Tech -- excellent holsters -- I have one for my SVI 1911 and like it very much.

For a gun belt (when shooting production) I use a Wilderness Tactical Instructors Belt. It is just a nice utility belt which I use all the time, and it keeps your gun on nice and snug.

Mag pouches -- whatever is cheapest -- I use the Uncle Mikes, but they need some adjusting to make them looser IMHO, but all that takes is longer screws and a bit of rubber tubbing.

Anyway, get something that goes bang and get ye to a match!!!
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 8:23:11 PM EDT
Did I mention before that you should shoot whatever you already have for awhile before buying anything?
Also, if you shoot production class you are not at a disadvantage with 9mm. But you don't need to spend money on all the cool go-faster stuff Yar so kindly pictured for us for production (note: I have same or similar as Yar for Limited and L-10). i.e. you can get started withour spending so much. Really, about $600-700 would get you off to the races.
BTW, you can get a really nice trigger done on a Glock. It's not necessary but it's easier to shoot accurately and a little more fun.
OTOH, some folks never get good with the Glock and hate it.
Learn the "IPSC grip" and then hanldle/shoot a few before you buy. Lot's of folks at matches won't mind letting you try theirs.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 8:41:19 PM EDT
I started in production too. I think most Glock people do. Went with a box stock glock 35, a Uncle mikes holster and mag carriers, and 5 10 round mags. Later I added sights 15# recoil spring and tungsten guide rod to shoot limited 10.

My whole goal was to shoot limited, it was just a matter of getting enough working high caps that drop free and getting my skills up.

Production is fun, and it's good for learning to make mag changes. You sure do make lots of them with 10 round mags.

I highly recomend a trigger job, even if your just going the polished connector, glockmeister spring, and reduced power striker spring. It really makes a difference for precision long range shots, and those strong hand weak hand shots.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 9:12:46 PM EDT

I do't know of anyone that shoots the rugers, but they are cheap and high caps can be had....


I have been using a stock Ruger P85 for almost 2 years now. I mostly shoot limited, but have also used it in limited 10. The reason I started with the Ruger is that's what I had when I became involved in the USPSA. Sure, there are better guns out there, but from what I have seen, there are none that are more reliable. I have seen hi-dollar STI'S, Glocks, 1911's, and SIG's all have reliablty problems, but my Ruger (and the few others, I've seen) just keep bangin' away. Hell, come to think about it, I've not had a jam since I bought it.


Vulcan94
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