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Posted: 9/21/2003 12:25:18 PM EDT
okay, i can't hit shit when i decock my sig 226 and fire as if it were in the typical carry condition. don;t know if i want to spend time learning to shoot it correctly in DA.

not going to carry my browning HP. cocked and locked makes me too nervous.

so i'm a lazy sissy hah hah.

anyway i ask because i'm thinking of a CCW, since they're so easy to get here. and i might even carry sometimes.

what are current thoughts on what would be a good CCW weapon that has a uniform but decent trigger all the time? glocks may be cool for some but they don't fit my hand well. maybe HK USP 45C?

Link Posted: 9/21/2003 12:39:55 PM EDT
Unless there in something wrong with your SIG, I am surprised at the bad DA trigger comment. For DA/SA pistols SIGs have about the best DA trigger of any handgun I have handled. HKs DA triggers have improved greatly over the past few years. My most recent HK is a USP45f. It is AD datecoded as 2003 mfg. The DA trigger on this thing makes my two other AC datecoded USPs seem like crap, and they are not bad. However, as good as I think the new USP DA trigger is, if you aren't doing well with a correctly functioning SIG you won't do well with a USP either, no offense whatsoever.

On a personal note: I learned to shoot DA well by shooting a Glock. Now, I am not pushing a Glock on you. They are not my favorite, HKs are. But I do like them and learning their trigger well helped me to shoot DA well in general. Sort of like how people will recomend learning DA triggers on a DA revolver. You have to learn not to anticipate the recoil all the while applying more and more pressure to the trigger until it breaks. Once it does it should be a surprise to you and the last thing you knew was that the sights were aligned on target. I don't mean to be patronizing and if you already knew all this stuff please disregard and take no offense.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 12:51:18 PM EDT
hey, no problem, thanks. i really don't know squat about this.

i find the nose of the pistol nosedives when i start 'the squeeze' and then the recoil brings it back up.... somewhere. i hit paper at 10 yards but not in the center.

i guess this is a two-part question, since i am whining about DA and asking about a carry weapon. solving both issues at the same time would be nice.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 1:13:02 PM EDT
2 comments:

1st, Try a Kahr for ccw carry. I carry a P40 and it conceals very well and has a wonderful DAO pull.

2nd, if you are going to carry please reconsider and carry all the time. You are not in charge of when and where you will need it. The people in Luby's in Texas probably didn't think they would need a side arm just going for lunch. Even when I go out somewhere quick I at least have my Kel Tec p32 with me. Better to have and not need than need and not have.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 1:25:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2003 2:33:41 PM EDT by Yar1182]
I hate to say it, but your yanking the trigger. Only way to fix it is lots of dryfire practice. Aim at a small target, watch the front sight, and dry fire practice. If the front sight moves at all your not doing it right. Fifty dryfire shots a day will really help your double action work.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 2:01:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2003 2:04:15 PM EDT by sig_230]
As stated above, lots and lots of dry fire. Just take your SiG and dry fire it as often as you can. Next time you go to the range, shoot DA only.

If possible, find someone that will let you shoot their revolver. What you learn shooting a wheelgun will make you a far better shot when you have to shoot brass flingers.

I'm a little concerned though when you say you're not sure that you're willing to learn to shoot (fill in any make) well. There is a responsibility that goes with the right to carry, and that is to learn to master what you will have. Learning to shoot DA, just like learning clearing drills, safe handling, cleaning and maintenance are just part of your obligations.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 3:41:03 PM EDT
maybe i'm fliching with live ammo because i don't seem to go off target nearly as much when dry firing (as of 30 seconds ago).

i'm not sure i feel obligated to learn to shoot DA like a champ. if i sought out a nice, light trigger DAO weapon (e.g the new HK compact 2000 something) that i would carry, or found a single action weapon that i felt okay about carrying cocked and locked, and learned to shoot it correctly, i think i would be in the clear, morally. i'm NOT suggesting that i'd neglect learning how to use a weapon that i would carry, just trying to see if i can find something that might fit me well. then i could concentrate my range time and ammo money on THAT, whatever THAT would be.

but i will stick with this dry firing stuuf. thanks all for the advice.

Link Posted: 9/21/2003 4:24:31 PM EDT
Cocked and locked is my method of carry. I carry my HKs that way. It does not bother me one bit. A HP should be no problem for cond. 1. If you need a way to convince yourself that it is safe get yourself a good holster for it. Carry it around all day cocked and locked but with an empty chamber. Check occasionally if you like. By the end of the day you will see that it is still cocked and the safety is still on. If a few days of that does not satisfy you try this next. Take same good holster, still keep chamber empty, walk around all day with the hammer cocked and the safety off. With a good holster that protects the trigger the hammer will never fall. I encourage you to try to become comfortable with condition 1 carry.

Good luck!

p.s. Keep up the practice with that 226 as well. It is a terrific piece.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 4:34:42 PM EDT
i second JTW2. a wise man once said, "a .38 in the pocket beats a .45 in the closet everyday of the week." i think of it the same way i do my first aid kit, flashlight, and spare tire. i don't plan on bleeding, getting lost in the dark or blowing tires. but i won't be SOL when it does happen.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 4:43:45 PM EDT
Ernest Langdon (www.langdontactical.com/)is doing work on Sigs now as well as Berettas, so he should be able to make that trigger buttery smooth for you. More importantly, he's also an excellent instructor who can teach you how to effctively manage the double action pull, which is better than any trigger job.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 4:59:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hero:
Cocked and locked is my method of carry. I carry my HKs that way. It does not bother me one bit. A HP should be no problem for cond. 1. If you need a way to convince yourself that it is safe get yourself a good holster for it. Carry it around all day cocked and locked but with an empty chamber. Check occasionally if you like. By the end of the day you will see that it is still cocked and the safety is still on. If a few days of that does not satisfy you try this next. Take same good holster, still keep chamber empty, walk around all day with the hammer cocked and the safety off. With a good holster that protects the trigger the hammer will never fall. I encourage you to try to become comfortable with condition 1 carry.

Good luck!

p.s. Keep up the practice with that 226 as well. It is a terrific piece.



What? Sig's don't have safeties, they have spring loaded decockers. So you are saying carry a weapon, hammer back with no safety?

Most holsters with a thumb snap won't let you secure the weapon, if it isn't a weapon intended to be carried "cocked". Sig's aren't intended to be carries that way.

DA takes time to master. I would suggest dry firing over and over, including drawing from a holster, then dry firing. You should get better over time. Also if it is a new gun it will get smoother as it wears in.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 5:06:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 2minkey:

i'm not sure i feel obligated to learn to shoot DA like a champ.



The innocent person you may hit when you throw your DA shot wild might think differently.

Some good guns with consistent pulls are: Glocks, Springfield XDs, Walther P99, P990, S&W 99's, Kahrs.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 5:56:08 PM EDT
one more time:

i'm fully planning on learning to use correctly whatever i carry.

didn't you read the part of my post OTHER than the part you quoted?
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 7:21:33 PM EDT
A few years back I was going to make the transition to the new and improved auto pistol.
Off to the Glock Store I went and came home with a brand spanking new G-19 put in the needed parts for a kind of good trigger, and added a good set of sights and it is a pretty good pistol. I have more money in this pistol than I have in my 1911 and it still doesn't feel just right for me. So off to the Beretta Store I go and come home with a brand spanking new 96 FS. This was one of the nicest and well made pistols I have handled but I could not hit quick with the first shot unless I shot this pistol 2 or 3 times a week, week in week out.
When I was shooting the Glock a lot and change to a 1911 I would occasionally fail to disengage the safety. When I was trying to bounce between the Beretta and a 1911 I became very slow with both, as the design and operation are so far apart on these two I was continually having to think about everything I did with both.
I would find a pistol I liked and stay with it. This is one of those things where expirimenting can do more harm than good.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 6:23:48 AM EDT
Every SIG I've ever owned has had an inordinately heavy DA pull. My S&W 3rd gen autos typically have lighter triggers. HK's DA trigger is only a tiny bit better than the SIG's, and I don't know what can be done to help them.

There are things that can be done to lighten the pull... I have a friend who alters the DA camming surface on the hammer to reduce the stacking. I would suggest sending your SIG to Ernest Langdon.

If you want a consistent pull with each shot, I suggest either a Springfield XD or a Glock (though I am no longer buying any Glocks personally, they still make quality guns that will shoot if you can get used to them).
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 1:44:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2003 1:45:57 PM EDT by Hero]

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By Hero:
Cocked and locked is my method of carry. I carry my HKs that way. It does not bother me one bit. A HP should be no problem for cond. 1. If you need a way to convince yourself that it is safe get yourself a good holster for it. Carry it around all day cocked and locked but with an empty chamber. Check occasionally if you like. By the end of the day you will see that it is still cocked and the safety is still on. If a few days of that does not satisfy you try this next. Take same good holster, still keep chamber empty, walk around all day with the hammer cocked and the safety off. With a good holster that protects the trigger the hammer will never fall. I encourage you to try to become comfortable with condition 1 carry.

Good luck!

p.s. Keep up the practice with that 226 as well. It is a terrific piece.



What? Sig's don't have safeties, they have spring loaded decockers. So you are saying carry a weapon, hammer back with no safety?

Most holsters with a thumb snap won't let you secure the weapon, if it isn't a weapon intended to be carried "cocked". Sig's aren't intended to be carries that way.

DA takes time to master. I would suggest dry firing over and over, including drawing from a holster, then dry firing. You should get better over time. Also if it is a new gun it will get smoother as it wears in.



In his first post he said he had a Browning HP. But, he was uncomfortable with cond 1. That is what I was talking about. I even referred to the Hi-power in my post you quoted. NO I would not suggest to anyone to carry a SIG cocked.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 2:07:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hero:
Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

In his first post he said he had a Browning HP. But, he was uncomfortable with cond 1. That is what I was talking about. I even referred to the Hi-power in my post you quoted. NO I would not suggest to anyone to carry a SIG cocked.



My bad, sorry.
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