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Posted: 9/8/2003 8:43:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 8:45:31 AM EDT by Hawkeye]
If the SHTF tomorrow, and you had to choose between either a 1911 or USP 45, both of which have proven to be 100% reliable and very accurate, which would you choose? I thought I had my choice figured out but now I am not so sure. I need a very serious answer here. No other choices, no choosing both.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 8:56:11 AM EDT
I would say 1911, just because I don't like the bulky top of the USP
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:00:16 AM EDT
Assuming 100% reliability, I'd go 1911.

But reality is different. In SHTF I'd want real-world, not fantasy, reliability. Make mine the USP.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:00:39 AM EDT
1911 because I have human sized hands.

I also have much more time in with the 1911.

If it breaks, I have better chance of getting a replacement part for the 1911.

Mags are more available for the 1911.

The 1911 is more concealable.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:03:25 AM EDT
I'd go with an all tool steel 1911 with a minimum of bells and whistles... no ambi safeties, magwells, adjustable trigger, FLGR or any of that stuff. An extended thumb safety, beavertail, at a minimum good 3-dot sights, and a dark matte finish. Also, I'd put some cheap plastic grips on it, no fancy hardwood. Checkering or stippling is fine if you can get it but not strictly necessary.

I would limit custom work on it to a reliability job and an 18 lb spring, and have at least five good, proven magazines.

If you drop it on a hard surface, you want a gun that will survive the impact, and be easy to find replacement parts for if something does let loose. My other thought process is that I don't think it's a good idea to make your fighting pistol too pretty to treat like a weapon.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:07:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:16:59 AM EDT
1911.......Simplicity.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:18:17 AM EDT
USP45c......since I too have human sized hands. My USP40c has held up to a fall on to asphalt from 6 feet, while loaded and round in the chamber. I don't remember the details but I winced and ducked when I realized it was gonna hit the ground.

I would already have all the mags I needed so that would be of little concern.......

The only thing I like better about the 1911 is the weight and the SA trigger.....the benefits of the better trigger can be practiced down to negligible with the USP.

HTH.....
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:24:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I've heard the HK USP's are finicky as to ammo, they choke on Wolf and S&B. If that is true I would lean toward a 1911 that would be more likely to digest whatever ammo I come across. You are probably more likely to be able to scavenge magazines and spare parts for a 1911.



My USPs will feed S&B all day. They do not like wolf.
Other than that they eat EVERYTHING!

I cant say that about my Springfield, or my Kimber. I have small hands, the USP 45 fullsize is too big. If were talking compact USP45, thats another story. I use the 45compact as my carry gun.

Having said that, I would go with the 1911, mainly for the mag avalibilty.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:29:16 AM EDT
OK. Here is the reason I ask. I just bought 2 new 1911's because I love them. I have a USP 45. My USP 45 has been 100% reliable, and I carry it just fine, and shoot it better than any gun I have ever had.
I got an unpassable deal on the 2 1911's. I was going to sell the USP, and just have the 2 1911's, 1 to carry, 1 for SHTF.
However, I am just having a hard time letting go of the USP. It just works so well and natural for me. I went and shot the 2 1911s. 1 was flawless. The other, the one that was going to replace my USP as my SHTF gun, had 2 FTE. Just enough to have me wondering. Then, I when I was mentioning it to my buddy at the store, he said he knew someone who was wanting the exact gun I have and would buy it if I wanted to sell it. One of them has to go or my wife will shoot me. So I am just trying to figure out what to do. I wish keeping them both was an option.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:35:24 AM EDT
You keep one 1911 and one USP45.

Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:36:39 AM EDT
I voted for the 1911, but if I were in your position, I would sell the 1911.

If you trust the USP and only 1 of the 1911's, why sell the USP?

Get rid of the 1911 that you don't trust, keep the gun that you know and have trained with.

Av.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:45:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 10:46:30 AM EDT by Hawkeye]
Thats exactly the direction I am leaning.

I am kicking my self now for being so quick to jump the gun. When I came across the 2 1911's, They were both ones I had had before and wanted again. I just jumped too quick without giving enough thought to the whole situation.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 11:06:39 AM EDT
I am actually VERY suprised at the poll results so far. Very interesting indeed.


I am going to cry really hard to the wife and beg like a baby and see if she will let me keep all 3 and come up with the $$ I need another way. Not holding my breath though.
Damn. I love all 3 of these guns SO much.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 11:18:45 AM EDT
You just sold that ultra compact.

I think you need to settle down on all the selling there boy.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 11:23:56 AM EDT


1911. Actually, I'm carrying it right now.
1911 just fits my hand better than USP 45.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 11:35:43 AM EDT
I have carried the 1911 for many years and own either 9 or 10 right now...can't recall without getting them all out. I really...really...like this gun.

If the SHTF for real tomorrow, and concealment was not an issue (unlike Hawkeye, I do have problems comfortably concealing it) I would take my H&K full size with ns and all seven of my 12rd. mags loaded with WW SXT 230 gr. and never look back.

H&K for this poll!
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 11:45:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Boomholzer:
You just sold that ultra compact.

I think you need to settle down on all the selling there boy.



What cho talkin bout Willis? I have never owned an Ultra compact, much less sold one.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 11:51:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Originally Posted By Boomholzer:
You just sold that ultra compact.

I think you need to settle down on all the selling there boy.



What cho talkin bout Willis? I have never owned an Ultra compact, much less sold one.



Maybe it was a P226 you just sold?
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 12:06:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Originally Posted By Boomholzer:
You just sold that ultra compact.

I think you need to settle down on all the selling there boy.



What cho talkin bout Willis? I have never owned an Ultra compact, much less sold one.


Hawkeye I coulda sworn you had one of these for sale about a month ago...

Link Posted: 9/8/2003 12:09:05 PM EDT
Dont sell the HK.

You'll kick yourself in the ass later.

If you have to sell one, get rid of the one with the FTE.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 12:14:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Boomholzer:

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Originally Posted By Boomholzer:
You just sold that ultra compact.

I think you need to settle down on all the selling there boy.



What cho talkin bout Willis? I have never owned an Ultra compact, much less sold one.



Maybe it was a P226 you just sold?



I did get rid of a P226, but that was some months ago.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 12:18:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tivoli410:

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:

Originally Posted By Boomholzer:
You just sold that ultra compact.

I think you need to settle down on all the selling there boy.



What cho talkin bout Willis? I have never owned an Ultra compact, much less sold one.


Hawkeye I coulda sworn you had one of these for sale about a month ago...

www.hunt101.com/img/058352.jpg



Nope, never had that model.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:32:33 PM EDT
My USP45 and USP45C feed everything. I have never had an FTF, but I have never tried Wolf. My Springfield "loaded" 1911 feeds everything well except Gold Dot. Prolly the feed ramp needs polishing.

If I had to have just one, I would probably keep the 45C because it's a little smaller and points well.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 10:13:37 PM EDT
1911's are NON-PLASTIC....enough said
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 4:10:26 AM EDT
Thanks for all the replies.
I think I have everything settled now. I am hanging with the two 1911's. Unfortunately, that means the USP has to go. Two is one, one is none.
Noting wrong with the USP. It has served me well, and I wish I could keep it, but, in our current situation, it will have to go. Its not like I cant get another one day. For the time being, I think the 2 SA's will do fine.
I have to admit though, I am VERY shocked at the poll results. I really did not expect the 1911's to hold such a strong lead. Basically what this all boils down to is, I got 2 guns for one. Instead of the 1 USP, I now have 2 1911's. I feel better about things this morning, and think I am going the right direction for me, for now.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 5:46:50 AM EDT
I just traded my USP45F to get another Kimber. You're on the right track in my opinion. The HK worked fine, I just enjoy a good 1911 more.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 7:45:14 AM EDT
"Assuming 100% reliability, I'd go 1911.

But reality is different. In SHTF I'd want real-world, not fantasy, reliability. Make mine the USP."

Check out Les Baer (they are 100% reliable in my experience) I haven't had any failures at all.


Failures to eject have a simple solution- get a tuned extractor from a gunsmith and put it in your slide. Get a decent extractor from ed brown or Wilson.

I've never had a failure to eject but all my extractors are tuned (all that means is that they are properly bent by a person with knowledge and a fixture for doing that).

1911's today have one problem feature crazy customers are demanding lots of expensive parts for nothing so what you end up getting is a pile of asthetic parts that are made cheaply by the lowest bidder- I don't want a low ball

Sear, Hammer, disconector, trigger or extractor in my guns


Link Posted: 9/9/2003 7:52:43 AM EDT
I did find out what caused the 2 FTE's I had. Right at the slides full rearward movement point, it was sticking ever so slightly. I can see the rub marks on the frame rails and slide rails now. Did a lot of hand cycling last night and now it seems to move nice and free. Some more shooting should break things in and smooth everything out.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 4:47:25 AM EDT
As expensive as HKs are getting, I would maybe think twice before getting rid of it. By the time you get around to wanting another one, they will likely be over $1000 at the rate they are going.

Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:11:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 7:01:14 AM EDT
It all depends on what feels right in your hand. If you can get to shoot them, great, so you can see what works best FOR YOU. There is no simple answer for SHTF. As far as parts availability, in a true SHTF scenario, do you expect to be able to go on-line and order from your favorite parts supplier, or go to a gun store? No. So, to me the answer lies in finding what I like, having two compatible items (my big obsession, commonality of ammo, magazines if possible, and some parts) which can support each other. If the SHTF is long term, well, you'll just have to capture what you need when yours start to fail. Yeah, sounds "terrible", doesn't it. But, if you don't think like that, you won't survive, regardless what you have.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 11:41:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I've heard the HK USP's are finicky as to ammo, they choke on Wolf and S&B. If that is true I would lean toward a 1911 that would be more likely to digest whatever ammo I come across. You are probably more likely to be able to scavenge magazines and spare parts for a 1911.



I have a USP 45F and 45C both are stock out of the box. No problems ever. I have shot thousands of rounds of wolf & SB out of both of them with no problems.

I now own 2 1911's. They are great also. But if my life depended on it and I could only have one hands down it would be one of my USP’s
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 5:56:21 PM EDT
Hard choice! I like them both. But I would go wth the 1911.
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 7:22:44 PM EDT
The 1911, for mechanical reasons already mentioned.

As long as the S--- isn't hitting the fan I'll gladly rely on either.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 5:25:28 PM EDT
The USP is a _far_ more reliable firearm - much simpler design, rugged polymer/fiberglass frame, easily handles 45+P/45 Super. 2-5 more rounds/magazine. Less fouling in its polygonal bore. More reliable feeding. Doesn't require $1000 of gunsmithing. Very accurate, _without_ tight tolerances.

Drawbacks? Fewer spare parts, but you'll need fewer. Scarcer magazines, so buy a lifetime supply (6...). DA/SA action isn't as crisp as 1911, but it's eminently usable.

Sure, for IPDA I might use a 1911, but if it fails I just lose a match. For your stated purpose - SHTF - I vote USP.
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