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Posted: 9/7/2003 8:51:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2003 8:54:12 PM EDT by USRECONMC]
hey all, i have this Philipino 1911 made by "S.A.M." The first 16 rounds i fired out of it were fine. The gun cycled well and the casings ejected well, etc. I don't know if it was coincidence or luck. Not that 16 rds is "reliable" but now it is jamming up and malfunctioning on average every 3-5 rds or so. I thought it was the mags (i only have 2) and it may be the mags and i also switched ammo. I am shooting Winchester 45 ACP ammo now...before i was shooting UMC


I've heard it needs a good break in, i only have approx 150 rds thru it...

ideas???


*edit: when it first started acting up on me... after EVERY SINGLE ROUND fired i had to hit the slide release like i was just loading a mag...I.E. chamber each round

it is clean and lubed....??
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 8:56:09 PM EDT
explain the malfunction.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 9:03:43 PM EDT
i need to hit the slide release....the slide gets locked back and stays there....same situation like when u dump ur last round...the slide stays back...then u reload hit the rlease, etc etc
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 9:06:16 PM EDT
Is it locking back with rounds still in the magazine?
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 11:30:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2003 12:23:00 AM EDT by ArmdLbrl]
Go ask on www.1911forums.com

At the moment though there is no importer of Armscor 1911's using the initals "SAM". So I cant say what you have.

Edit.

Its amazing what you learn when you start digging.
www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56305

SAM stands for Shooters Arms manufacturing, "Shooters" being the rather pedestrian new name of an old company (it was E. de Leon) and gun dealership in the Philippines, based in Manila.

Their 1911-based pistols are made from 4140 steel, so I don't know about any hearsay softness. Their 1911-based models feed only FMJ with any reliability, and generally all their pistols still need very minor work out of the box. Shooters Arms Manufacturing is apparently NOT an ISO-certified company, while the Arms Corporation of the Philippines (Armscor) assuredly is, and highly so.

Armscor pistols use 4140 steel. They seem to have better fit and more durable bluing, and cost about the same, if not less than SAM's. Some of their lines have full length guide rods, others may need such a personal upgrade. They too, prefer FMJ/ball. I find it funny how some people will bash Armscor and rave over RIA's and CD's.

I've been told many times that replacing the factory mags is a good move, and so is investing in a full-length guide rod.

Hearsay reputation is one thing, but testimonials I've heard from actual users serves me better. Both SAM and Armscor perform well after break-in, according to many LEO and private enthusiasts. I fully suspect SAM can match Armscor's record down the road.


hth,
horge


Edit: I corrected the original name of Shooters. It's actually E. de Leon. I also flipped through my rolodex to find their web presence:

It's at www.shootersarms.com.ph





Oh, and the guy who wrote the original post got ripped. With what Rock Islands and Argentine Sistimas are selling for this gun should not have gone for $400.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:38:08 AM EDT
I'd say it's either the magazines or the slide release. Try different mags. If it happens again, replace the slide release.

Link Posted: 9/8/2003 6:56:06 AM EDT
yeah, it sounds like the slide release is being caught by the nose of the ammo as it comes up to feed. Check the slide release foe evidence of copper from the FMJ and remove a small amount of metal at a time untill the problem quits.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 8:28:39 AM EDT
SGB is correct. This is a fairly common problem with some cheap 1911s and even some good expensive 1911 pistols that use Wolf ammo.

The nose of the bullet hits the slide stop as it feeds up.

The nose of the Wolf round is a slighly different shape than most ball ammo and it tends to hit the slide stop and cause problems on some pistols that fire other ammo without a problem.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 1:43:42 PM EDT
pulled it apart and checked some things. What are the acceptable tolerances for slide release and nose of the bullet?...i can see a gap in there and i really dont think it is the problem. No brass scoring on the slide release either. Maybee under true fire the round is hitting....ill keep shooting it and see
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:24:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 7:29:00 AM EDT by Green0]
SELL IT NOW I had a brolin that litterally started to fall apart on me. It was made in the Phillipines too.

I was low on time when I wrote that:

It started to fail to lock the slide in the first 50rds, then the plunger tube detached and the operation of the safetey became hard. the metal was soft, accuracy was terrible like 10inches at 25yds (all horizontal about 1.5-3in vertical).

I took a $150 loss selling it.

When it comes to 1911's you get what you pay for and quality isn't cheap.

I would set the base 1911's as far as decent quality as.....

Dan Wesson Patriot. (best in class for low $ 1911's

Anything Kimber makes

SA 1911's with match barrels (semi-custom pistols like the TRP series)

The new Colt series 70's

Link Posted: 9/9/2003 10:19:04 AM EDT
WHY do smart people buy cheap guns and then wonder why they don't work? You get what you pay for. Don't take this personally, my second 1911 was an AMT Crapballer I guess experience teaches you to save up and buy quality.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:26:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 11:29:39 AM EDT by ArmdLbrl]

Originally Posted By SP10:
WHY do smart people buy cheap guns and then wonder why they don't work? You get what you pay for. Don't take this personally, my second 1911 was an AMT Crapballer I guess experience teaches you to save up and buy quality.



Because paying more DOES NOT mean better quality. There are more than enough complaints about QC problems with Kimbers (especally those witht he series II FP safety), Springfields, Series 80 Colts, and the new S&W's that you are as likely to draw a lemon with them as with Philippine guns costing a third less.

Its just like buying Ford/Chevy/Dodge vs. Mitsubishi/Toyota/Nissan.

When they were still legal to import here the Norincos cost no more than that SAM, they are STILL sought after guns, the only limits on their price now being that they were virtually all USGI spec- but people get as much or more than they paid for them reselling them in todays market.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:42:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USRECONMC:
pulled it apart and checked some things. What are the acceptable tolerances for slide release and nose of the bullet?...i can see a gap in there and i really dont think it is the problem. No brass scoring on the slide release either. Maybee under true fire the round is hitting....ill keep shooting it and see



That is when it will happen. The next round in the magazine will actually "bounce" up enough to tap it. Two things help that. A little meat taken off the inside of the stop, and a detent slot cut in the slide stop itself for the detent pin to dig into.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:55:39 AM EDT
Uh Huh. Ahem, <BS>. I'll take my chances with my Colts and Springfield, all of which function great, thank you very much. You can have your $300 imports. I have seen many used Colt and Springfield 1911s in the $400 range. I would persue this avenue first.

I have had minor problems with a pair of Kimbers which I have covered in this forum before. I think Kimber is better at marketing and cosmetics than functionality. Norinco 1911's sought after? Not by me. Even if they were quality, I'm no fan of buying Chinese crap. Or Japanese, for that matter.

I also used to buy cheap optics. Not any more.

I will say I think the Star PD .45 was a decent sorta 1911-type clone, and relatively inexpensive.


Link Posted: 9/9/2003 3:03:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 3:10:37 PM EDT by USRECONMC]
well, the piece i really wanted was the Springfield....but for $150 bucks for a NIB "SAM" i said WTF, ill take one. I also bought one for my bro. He has never fired anything in his life LOL and he wanted to just plink and blast for no apparent reason...so i got him an early b-day gift. Anyway, the guy i bought them from had a shizz-load and he was moving them like crazy. He's a nice guy and i see him at the range every now and again. He told me if i didnt like it he'd give me my money back. Well, i still kept it anyway b/c i can manage to fix it properly and just have it as the throw on the ground piece.

The ergos of it are nice, i like the looks of it and it was $150...so ill hang on to it for now. I will file away a little of the release and se if it corrects itself. However, i was thiking, maybee after another 100 rds or so the rounds themselves would do the "filing" and it will behave properly.
*edit: after reading all the crap about Springfield...and how they do not stand behind there product...they can go to hell as far as Im concerned...wont be getting my business.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 4:38:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SP10:
Uh Huh. Ahem, <BS>. I'll take my chances with my Colts and Springfield, all of which function great, thank you very much. You can have your $300 imports. I have seen many used Colt and Springfield 1911s in the $400 range. I would persue this avenue first.

I have had minor problems with a pair of Kimbers which I have covered in this forum before. I think Kimber is better at marketing and cosmetics than functionality. Norinco 1911's sought after? Not by me. Even if they were quality, I'm no fan of buying Chinese crap. Or Japanese, for that matter.

I also used to buy cheap optics. Not any more.

I will say I think the Star PD .45 was a decent sorta 1911-type clone, and relatively inexpensive.





You have just been lucky that all your Colts and Springfields work. And you paid extra for the name. Stars were very good guns, but they were not clones, they used a trigger system and barrel link copied from the HiPower.

How anyone can look at the sheer volume of evidence over on 1911forums and then call it BS is just wacked.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 6:21:55 AM EDT
USRECONMC, sorry to hijack your thread For $150, trying the gun makes sense. Please don't let this pistol sour you on the 1911. A good functioning/quality 1911 is an awesome shooter.

My AMT, like GreenO's Brolin, also had soft metal. Just keep an eye on it. The locking lugs on my AMT's barrel broke after maybe a couple 1000 rounds. Upon rebarrelling and installing a match bushing, it loosened up almost immediately.

Maybe try some Wilson mags or USGI spec mags? You have some good advice with the slide release. I wonder if these cheap imports will work with quality aftermarket parts (ie Wilson, Ed Brown, etc.)?

Armed Lib, I could be lucky at that. I own 4 Colt 1911s which I've bought from 1989-1996. Only the first, a very early 1980's Colt Officer's, purchased used, caused me minor grief (front sight went flying, needed minor polishing). My other newer Ponies ran great out of the box. My newest 1911, a SA loaded, is an excellent gun-other than the ILS mainspring which I replaced due to preference.
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