Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 8/17/2003 5:24:13 PM EDT
Narrowed down to these brands, for .45 that is, 95% say Kimber, I need your help. I really like the Gold match, any advice, thanks
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 7:23:05 PM EDT
I bought a Kimber on reputation and everyone saying how great they were! I actually use my weapons and had nothing but problems with my Kimber! I'm not saying it's a bad product but under the use conditions it just didnt cut it! I traded mine for a Springfield and have never had a problem since! Just some food for thought! Good luck in you decision!
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 8:59:01 PM EDT
If you are going to do some major upgrade work on it in future I would say to get a SA. If you are just going to keep it as is, I say get the Kimber. I have several of both (along with Colts) but I like the Kimbers better than SA.

just my $0.02
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 10:51:46 PM EDT
Kimber doesn't make a basic mil-spec model so if you want that, get a SA.

Kimber also puts on a lot of crap that I neither need nor want to pay for.

I own two SA 1911s, one .45acp & 9mm.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 6:20:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2003 6:24:25 PM EDT by AR15fan]
Springfield has less MIM parts and no Swartz safety to worry about.

My recommendation is to go to the 1911 boards. read the threads in the Springfield and Kimber forums.

Kimber: www.1911forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=6690550fdd5128e679122cd68408ce2c&forumid=27

Springfield: www.1911forum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=6690550fdd5128e679122cd68408ce2c&forumid=29
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 6:23:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2003 6:33:47 PM EDT by SHIVAN]
MIM? Serious question; MIM stands for?

Molded Injection Metal?

What parts? What fails? I got my Kimber CDP II for a pretty good deal so I won't complain if I need to do work on it, and the primary gun I rely on is NOT the Kimber.

Although I will say I have gone 400rds of 230gr white box and no FTF, FTE, or other issues at all.

Plus very accurate.

As far as Springfield -- I still like the "loaded" PX9503L compact with commander length slide, blued with Novak night sights @ $650.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 6:35:08 PM EDT
I love my Springfield!!

Jim
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 6:42:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
MIM? Serious question; MIM stands for?

Molded Injection Metal?

What parts? What fails?



Saftey, Grip Safety, Extractor, Slide Stop, Firing pin stop, ect... Go to the Kimber forums (I posted a link) look back over the last 30 days or so of posts. Lots of MIM parts failures.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 6:43:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2003 6:44:10 PM EDT by bvmjethead]
I like this one.



Kimber Gold Combat II
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 6:47:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2003 6:48:00 PM EDT by RAMBOSKY]
I have two Springfields, use them for compititon and never have had a problem.

Heard a lot of complaints about Kimbers at the IDPA and 3 gun Tac matches.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 7:14:30 AM EDT
Hello all... Just wanted to jump into the fray and input my .02. I have 2 main handguns, Colt M1991A1 heavily modified with trick stuff, almost too numerous to list, as well as a M1911 Springfield, also heavily modified. Springfield is a workhorse, i test my hot handloads through it. That pistol started life as a factory comp gun, but i pulled that barrel to shoot IDPA and installed a National Match barrel/bushing combo along with some nifty internal springs... Bottom line is, I carry the Colt and shoot it in competition regularly. Both guns are great, as far as I'm concerned. Never had a Kimber, always thought they were neat, but way expensive.

I say you ought to go pick up a used Colt at a gun show, and take about $400 to your local gunsmith and get trick sights, trigger work, and other accurizing essentials down pat, and then have a custom gun set up exactly like you want it. 1911s have literally TONS of aftermarket parts, and anyone who's ever called himself a gunsmith can work on one. Building your own gun is more rewarding, in my mind, than purchasing one. Also, FWIW... purchasing the highest quality springs and extractors you can find is an investment in reliability and durability.

Link Posted: 8/20/2003 9:20:43 PM EDT
I have the Kimber TLE and love it...Actually traded my Springfield for it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 7:11:40 AM EDT
I have a SA 1911 Micro compact love the gun, love the trigger, Zero failures with about 300 rounds through it so far. I have only had it for about 2 months but I say get the SA.

KC
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 7:23:12 AM EDT
My next purchase will be a Kimber.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 7:43:20 AM EDT
I just bought a Springfiled double stack and love it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 7:58:35 AM EDT
Out of all the 1911 style firearms I have owned, the Kimber TLE was the best out of the box.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 8:35:20 AM EDT
Springfield.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 4:20:18 PM EDT
Personally, I can't stand Springfields, and will shortly be buying a Kimber.
I sold both for over 2 years, and had more complaints about the Springfields than the Kimbers.
I consider Springfield to be an importer, not a manufacturer. Not that that necesarily matters to some, but it does to me.
I have heard good things about the high-end Springfields, but if I wanted to drop a ton of cash on a 1911 I can think of lots of other things I'd rather spend my money on.

Incidentally, this thread is one that crops up every couple of months, and innevitably turns ugly.
You might try adding a poll as well.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 5:21:59 PM EDT
Personally, I can't stand Kimbers, I've heard a lot of bad things about Kimbers from people who acutally used them.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 6:05:59 PM EDT
Do you hate Kimbers beause you've shot them and dont like them or because you heard they are crap? just curious.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 6:13:50 PM EDT
I'm curious, since more than one person has posted "actually used" now. What exactly do you mean? Are you saying that you use yours "on the job", or that you shoot lots of targets with them?
Just curious what you're implying or trying to say.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 6:18:12 PM EDT
Well, in my case I shoot over 1000 rounds a month. i use my guns for Bullseye, IDPA, USPSA/IPSC and Steel challenge and Bowling pins when I get the chance...My guns are used and abused
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 6:22:47 PM EDT
Either one will make you happy.
I've owned and worked on both, they are both very nice guns.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 10:54:28 PM EDT
I never said the word "hate".

I've shot the Series I and Series II Kimbers. I can't stand the look of the external extractor on some of their models. Don't like the extra firing pin safety. I liked the Series I better.

Too many of the "guys" I shoot with have voiced complaints of problems with slides not going into battery and breakage of various parts and the general down hill quality of Kimber over the last five years.

Those of us who own Springfields don't seem to have as many problems. Are we lucky? Then there are the guys with Wilsons who won't talk to the rest of us.

I have four IDPA clubs within in a two hour drive which I attend on a regular basis during the season. Most of them offer shotgun and carbine side matches and plus 3 gun tac matches. I also have a shooting range behind my house. I practice in the evenings and send a lot of ammo down range during the week.

I just noticed some people posting that they couldn't stand certain firearms manufacturers but gave no reasons. So........I thought I could also.


Link Posted: 8/22/2003 2:56:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RAMBOSKY:
I never said the word "hate".

I've shot the Series I and Series II Kimbers. I can't stand the look of the external extractor on some of their models. Don't like the extra firing pin safety. I liked the Series I better.

Too many of the "guys" I shoot with have voiced complaints of problems with slides not going into battery and breakage of various parts and the general down hill quality of Kimber over the last five years.

Those of us who own Springfields don't seem to have as many problems. Are we lucky? Then there are the guys with Wilsons who won't talk to the rest of us.

I have four IDPA clubs within in a two hour drive which I attend on a regular basis during the season. Most of them offer shotgun and carbine side matches and plus 3 gun tac matches. I also have a shooting range behind my house. I practice in the evenings and send a lot of ammo down range during the week.

I just noticed some people posting that they couldn't stand certain firearms manufacturers but gave no reasons. So........I thought I could also.



Actually, I did say why I don't like them, it's because I got too many complaints from customers that bought them, and heard virtually no complaints from the Kimber buyers.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 3:07:35 AM EDT
To further confuese matters, I decided to email a Gunsite instructor that I know to ask him what he's seen at the school in terms of the topic at hand.
His comment was that they are about equal in terms of reliability and shootability in classes (and I'd say 1k rounds in a week is a pretty good test of ANY gun). He said that the Springfields are still coming with VERY sharp edges; sharp enough to cut skin, but that many don't like the new Kimber safeties.
What he suggested was buying the gun that has the features you want, and don't pay for features you don't want.
So, in general, I'd say one probably isn't really much better or worse than another, but that it comes down to personal preference.

FWIW my personal preference is the Kimber. Just thought I'd toss in an unbiased "expert" opinion.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 4:10:27 AM EDT
norman74,

You're right about the sharp edges on the Springfields and you're right about personal preference.

Link Posted: 8/22/2003 4:48:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2003 4:49:06 AM EDT by norman74]

Originally Posted By RAMBOSKY:
norman74,

You're right about the sharp edges on the Springfields


Hey, at least it's not PPK. I don't know how many meat-hands in the shop got bit by the PPK.

BTW, the instructor recommended the TRP or whatever Springfield calls their "SWAT" model. He also said that they find Wilsons to be on par with the other two, but cost $1k+ more. He emailed me last week to tell me that they had a Les Baer in class that kept locking up because it was brand new and so tight. By the end of class it was running a little better, but in general his impression of the gun wasn't very good for the ridiculous amount of money spent.
Maybe it's just a shameless plug on his part, but he's very fond of the various "Gunsite" guns that their custom shop puts out. Their custom shop has the benefit of having the school right there to see what works & what doesn't. He also recommended the Colt "Gunsite" model, which has a series 70 action. www.colt.com/CMCI/Gunsite.asp Of course, it's $1300 so...

At the end of the day, I think that for me, $750 for a Kimber TLE is likely going to be where I end up. If I had $1k to drop, I'd probably go with the TRP, and if I had $1300 I'd probably go with the Colt. I don't really see anything at the $750 price-point from Springfield that I like.

This debate is getting as old as "Glock vs 1911"
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 9:18:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2003 9:25:39 AM EDT by RAMBOSKY]
Very interesting comments about the Springfield TRP and the Wilson from the Gunsite instructor.

And it sounds like you have an excellet resource for info.

Link Posted: 8/22/2003 9:33:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RAMBOSKY:
Very interesting comments about the Springfield TRP and the Wilson from the Gunsite instructor.

And it sounds like you have an excellet resource for info.



He is my Yoda, lol.

FWIW I just came back from looking them all over at the local overpriced dealer. Well, they didn't have the Colt Gunsite model like I hoped, but I compared the TLE and the TRP.
I thought they were about equal. The TRP supposedly has some fancy finish on it, but it looked like plain old bluing to me. Fit and finish on both was about the same. I do prefer the super-no-snag design of the Kimber rear sight, although it means no one handed cocking using the rear sight. Of course, you can't do that with the TRP's Novak either so....
All in all, I'm still gonna go with the Kimber. In this case I think the TRP might be a slightly better gun, but I don't think it's $250 worth of better gun. I can get a fancy finish from Kimber for $200 that should be about the same as the TRP finish. Or I can get www.apwcogan.com to do any number of finishes for under $150 (brushed hard chrome anyone?).

I also handled the basic Springfield "Loaded". While it does seem better than those that I remember from 3 years ago, it's still not for me. Personal preference.

So, now I'm in negotiations to get my TLE. Just what I needed, more holsters, mag pouches, the .45 is gonna get me into reloading...ah well, it's only money, and who needs a new sofa anyway?
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 11:42:58 AM EDT
Preferance is the key here. I had a Sprin.Trophy match that I traded for a Kimber TLE and I like it. Not that the Spring. was bad but I just wanted to try the Kimber. I made a good trade. Softer edges and night sites...good gun:...both of them
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 12:25:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2003 12:29:35 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By norman74:
He emailed me last week to tell me that they had a Les Baer in class that kept locking up because it was brand new and so tight. By the end of class it was running a little better, but in general his impression of the gun wasn't very good for the ridiculous amount of money spent.



That mirrors my experiance with a Les Baer.

I like the looks and features of the TLE III. But the MIM parts and the Shwartz safety concern me. The safety, if improperly timed, wil alow you to pull the trigger, the hammer will drop, but the safety will slow the FP to the point that you have a failure to fire. Any gun i'm going to trust my life to has to go bang every time.

From the Kimber discussion boards, it appears a significant number of Kimbers ship with an improperly timed Series II safety.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 12:44:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By norman74:
He emailed me last week to tell me that they had a Les Baer in class that kept locking up because it was brand new and so tight. By the end of class it was running a little better, but in general his impression of the gun wasn't very good for the ridiculous amount of money spent.



That mirrors my experiance with a Les Baer.

I like the looks and features of the TLE III. But the MIM parts and the Shwartz safety concern me. The safety, if improperly timed, wil alow you to pull the trigger, the hammer will drop, but the safety will slow the FP to the point that you have a failure to fire. Any gun i'm going to trust my life to has to go bang every time.

From the Kimber discussion boards, it appears a significant number of Kimbers ship with an improperly timed Series II safety.



It's my understanding that this safety can be removed/overridden/turned off. Since I am not yet completely familiar with the method of function of this safety, I'll have to wait until I have mine at hand to figure it out.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 1:33:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By norman74:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By norman74:
He emailed me last week to tell me that they had a Les Baer in class that kept locking up because it was brand new and so tight. By the end of class it was running a little better, but in general his impression of the gun wasn't very good for the ridiculous amount of money spent.



That mirrors my experiance with a Les Baer.

I like the looks and features of the TLE III. But the MIM parts and the Shwartz safety concern me. The safety, if improperly timed, wil alow you to pull the trigger, the hammer will drop, but the safety will slow the FP to the point that you have a failure to fire. Any gun i'm going to trust my life to has to go bang every time.

From the Kimber discussion boards, it appears a significant number of Kimbers ship with an improperly timed Series II safety.



It's my understanding that this safety can be removed...



It can be. But then you are left with a hole in the frame, and another hole in the slide that leads to the firing pin internals. Not a good place to get dirt or sand. Someone needs to invent a pulg that fills these holes after removal of the shwartz safety. Or better yet, Kimber could build both series I and Series II guns, and let the consumer decide...
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 6:33:34 PM EDT
As someone said above...to further add to the confusion....

I love my Kimber...


I use it for IPSC on occassion. It is light, controllable and accurate BUT, it has yet to run 100% at a match. I have maybe 2000 rounds through it, and usually only once in a match, it will fail to chamber a round -- get stuck on the feedramp. I have a few friends with other Kimber models and a couple have had similar problems. The good news is that the problems were easily and inexpensively solved with a trip to the smith...I believe they just took a LITTLE angle off the feedramp. They all love them and would not trade them. Kimber has some packages that are very nice for the money -- the new semi SWAT model (whatever the hell the name is) looks just right.

On the Springfield side of the fence, another buddy won a Springfield (whatever their basic model is) at the American Handgunner last year. He set out to make it jam, and has yet to be successful. That sucker eats anything and everything -- he joked yesterday that it ran fine shooting some loose bolts he had lying around the shop. I can echo the comments on sharp corners though.

Bottom line -- I think you would do fine with either brand. Look for the package that you like at the price you like and never look back.

Good Luck.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 6:39:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2003 6:45:11 PM EDT by HiCapMag]
....One more thought, the Springfield TRP's are beautiful guns, and personally I would love to have one in stainless, but once you get to that price point, and definitely once you reach the price of the Wilsons, you are about up to this....


which I can not recommend highly enough...I probalby have at least 20k through this gun, and it has jammed exactly once, when a mag spring finally gave up.

again, good luck and happy shopping

P.S. I thought this thread needed some pictures.
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 4:28:52 PM EDT
This weekend I saw a Kimber Eclipse at my local gun shop. Well, to be honest, it was a very "good looking" pistol.

If I couldn't have my Sprinfields, I'd be interested in the Eclipse.

But..........it isn't the pistol but the operator, right?????
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 4:45:35 PM EDT
I just ordered my TLE Friday evening. Gotta send off the FFL and the money order tomorrow (hopefully). I'll be sure to post a review after my first IDPA match with it. Anybody got a good source for .45 swc?
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 6:12:30 PM EDT
Guy's,

I'm in the market for a 1911 and I gotta tell you I logged onto this looking for exactly what this post/threads are delivering. There are many that prefer Kimber and many for the SA. As for me, I still haven't made up my mind. I think I'll walk softly and test the water with both. the 1911 site is great and will prove to have valuable information to help in my decision making process. I plan on spending $750 - 1K. The TRP in SS sure looks good!

Thanks for the info.

Tom aka Moondawg
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 4:25:08 PM EDT
2 places for .45SWC's
www.nationalbullet.com

www.precisionbullets.com
National has a bigger selection but the Black bullets are able to achieve higher velocities due to coating:)
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 5:07:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By xwing:
2 places for .45SWC's
www.nationalbullet.com

www.precisionbullets.com
National has a bigger selection but the Black bullets are able to achieve higher velocities due to coating:)



Thanks for the links. Unfortunately I haven't got my press up and running yet (and I don't know how to work the damn thing anyway), so I am actually looking for loaded bullets.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 1:27:47 PM EDT
4 SA's I had had lots of failure to go into battery jams 1/4 in out of battery.

My Kimber's (I had 2) were totally reliable with ball ammo the only ammo I really shoot.

No MIM failures here.

A few of the SA's had 2-piece barrels that don't shoot for crap too.

Hands down Kimber. I've seen way too many SA's that won't shoot 8 rounds without a jam.
Link Posted: 8/27/2003 4:22:34 PM EDT
Never owned a Kimber and have no plans to do so. I own two Springfields - 5" Service Model Loaded, OD Green, and a Compact LW. Both run like a champ and I have no regrets buying them. I carry the Compact for my CCW.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 6:51:22 PM EDT
I have owned and shot both. A Kimber Custom 5in. and a Springfield Champion 4in. I prefer the Springfield. The Kimber is a nice gun, but the Springfield gets the nod in reliability and the quality of the parts. I've also owned a Colt series 70. and a Colt Officers Model. Find what you want and shoot it with quality ammo and you can't go wrong. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 7:17:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
I like this one.

www.kimberamerica.com/images/pistols/goldcombat_II.jpg

Kimber Gold Combat II



I like this one too. How much is it? Have a link?

Thanks...
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 7:50:40 PM EDT
I was looking to buy a 1911. Initially I was thinking of getting a Mil-Spec Springfield Armory and just buy the parts I wanted to add. Well, the parts quickly reached $300+, at which point I might as well buy a 1911 that already has all the work done to it. And after a little bit of checking I decided on the Kimber TLE/RL II for $849:

Link Posted: 9/5/2003 5:25:49 AM EDT



As for SA's two piece barrels, all mine have always made one ragged hole. Others may be better, but I'm not sure that I can use much more out of a combat gun. Not really sure where all this BS about their accuracy comes from.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 6:02:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/pdb2930d4a1fdc3de45b1dcdc3b87b8b1/fb2ebda5.jpg
As for SA's two piece barrels, all mine have always made one ragged hole. Others may be better, but I'm not sure that I can use much more out of a combat gun. Not really sure where all this BS about their accuracy comes from.



I don't think the concern is accuracy (at least for me), but with the possiblitity of the two pieces separating. Not sure if I remember reading about this actually happening, or if I am just paranoid.
The more expensive Springfields like the TRP have surprised me, and as I mentioned above come with what I consider a pretty good endorsement.

FWIW I just picked up my TLE this week, and if the weather holds I'll be shooting it tomorrow. Once I get through 1k rounds I'll get it refinished with a brushed hard chrome from apwcogan.
Top Top