Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/10/2003 5:31:48 PM EDT
I've been thinking about a carry 1911 for a while now. Of course I'm banking on the Missouri Congress to override the govenor's veto of our CCW. The Kobra carry seems like an awesome pistol. They also look like they run about $2000. I live in easy driving distance of Perry, MO so I might be able to save a bit by purchasing direct, but it is still a chunk of change.

It looks like Wilson's tactical models are about the same price, but unless there is something major to recommend them over Ed Brown I would throw my business to the home state manufacturer.

I have an H&K USP Full size which I love, but it is kind of large for my hand. Also, it won't conceal easily. The compact USP seems to be just a shorter version so no help on the grips/comfort there. Plus, I've just be wanting a 1911.

Any comments from those who have or have shot an Ed Brown would be appreciated.

If CCW doesn't pass maybe I'll just have to purchase another AR.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 9:43:06 AM EDT
have 4 1911's with a Lot of money spent on them. they blow out the center of a 50 yard target.

i also have a box stock 1911. old rattler is his name. replaced the trigger with an aluminum target type. a trigger job was needed. repaced the puny sights. it is easily minute of head accurate, and less, at 25 yards.

when i carry a 19ll, it is old rattler. he delivers. so, unless you just want a braggin' gun ..............

bought used and broke in, a man can have four old rattler defense pistols for $2000. or, 3 NIB. finish does not matter to me on a working tool.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 3:11:50 PM EDT
In my opinion, anything spent over $1000 - $1200 on a true "carry gun" is usually money spent on the following things:

- Brand name: not to disparage the fine names of Wilson, Ed Brown, etc., but you pay extra (all other things being equal) for their names on the side of the gun.

- Accuracy that you don't need and that may be detrimental to absolute reliability. You don't need a pistol that will deliver one hole groups at 50 yards for a carry gun. The tight fitting that produces this accuracy makes the gun less reliable, especially if its a little dirty.

- Unnecessary cosmetic touches. Sure, that 30 lpi checking on the front strap looks nice, but a 50 cent piece of skateboard tape does the same thing.

Kimber and Springfield both sell guns that have all of the features you need on a carry gun for about half the price of the custom houses. If you then want to send the gun to a pistolsmith for a couple hundred dollars worth of reliability / dehorning work, you're still ahead of the game by about one NIB .45 pistol worth of money. Most of these guns don't need the work as they come from the factory anyhow.

Link Posted: 8/11/2003 4:09:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2003 4:11:04 PM EDT by thedr13]
I agree!!!!
I own a Springfield Armory in S/S. Great weapon and it has never failed me.
I would say go to the Springfield website and at least give them a look.
For the most part, you will be able to purchase any of their guns for $75 to $150 less than what is posted at a good gunshop on any particular 1911.
I don't see any reason to pay 1K plus for any 1911.....
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 4:19:40 PM EDT
You know a Camaro will get you where you want to go, but it'll never be a CORVETTE!!!

Any 1911 from a reliable manufacturer will fill the bill. However if you lean toward the need for Speed .......Brown, Wilson and LesBaer are the guns for you.

I currently carry a Colt, but a Brown Kobra Carry is in my future
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 4:27:32 PM EDT
The Ed Brown guns are the closest thing to a true custom quality production gun. You will not find a better made, better fit gun on the market. Like others have said though, you could get by with a lightly tuned Springfield. To me it'd be a matter of pride of ownership in such a well made, accurate pistol.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 8:30:08 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies. Like I thought it comes down to do I want to spend that kind of cash for an awesome weapon or get by just fine for a lot less. The comment about the tight fit working against you if it gets dirty bothers me some. I have confidence my USP will function under some really nasty environmental conditions (mud, salt water, sand, etc). On the flip side, I would be that an Ed Brown will hold its value better that less expensive 1911's so that is a plus. While it would be cool to have a near-custom pistol maybe I'd be better of with a USP Compact 45 and a lot more practice. I can shoot a lot of rounds for the price difference.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 8:46:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 8:47:05 PM EDT
Theres fitted tight and theres fitted right. Makers like Ed Brown and Wilson fit them with just the right ammount of close tolerances to be functional in any environment you are likely to use them in. The consistant lock up of a well fitted match barrel will actually improve the reliability and long term durability of your pistol, provided the chamber isnt overly tight. Thats why Id only trust the smiths that build fighting guns, not game guns.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 8:56:02 PM EDT
Gee thanks. I just about had myself convinced to forget about the Ed Brown. Even had a reason. Now you guys blow it for me. I'm going to have to drive up to Perry one of these days and take a real good look. I only know one store that even carries them and they only have one.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 9:01:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2003 9:03:09 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Theres an Ed Brown Class A in my very near future to join up with the Wilson SGP and Springfield I already have. After comparing the Brown and a Baer side by side...I know where my big money is going.

I'll give credit to AJohnson for pushing me over the edge.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 5:25:23 AM EDT
Another thing to keep in mind when talking about "paying for a name".

You are also paying for their reputation. They have a vested interest in making your gun run right and making sure you are a satisfied customer. The big smiths got where they are today by name recognition, which means word of mouth, so they should have a good reason to take care of you. Getting good service out of a production 1911 outfit like Springfield mostly depends on who you get on the phone.

And then there's resale value. Brown and Baer guns seem to hold their value a little better than Wilson's, for some reason.

Link Posted: 8/12/2003 10:23:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Theres an Ed Brown Class A in my very near future to join up with the Wilson SGP and Springfield I already have. After comparing the Brown and a Baer side by side...I know where my big money is going.

I'll give credit to AJohnson for pushing me over the edge.



Since it seems that I helped out my friend Lumpy let me see if I can’t give you a hand......

Are Ed Browns pistols worth their cost? Absolutley!! Is there enough difference to justify the addition $1000++ over a Kimber or Springfield? No doubt about it!!

I’ve owned, shot, and handled them all.... from semi-customs like Wilson, Baer, and Brown all the way up to full house custom guns from the biggest names in 1911 smithing and here’s what I’ve learned. If you want the most gun from your money have a reputable custom gun maker build you a gun just the way you want it. It will cost you a pretty penny but it will also last you a lifetime or two. If money is not a concern but waiting is and you want the best semi-custom 1911 on the market buy an Ed Brown.... other wise get you self a Baer TR Special, end of story.

One may think that a box stock Springfield or Kimber is just as good (or maybe even better ’cause it cost less) as a Brown, Baer, or Wilson but when you really get into the details and inside the gun one is a Geo and the other is a Cadillac. Sure they are all 1911s (although Kimber is becoming less so every day), have similar features, shoot .45 ACP, and are reliable in their operation but the extra money goes a long way into making a much better and more shootable gun.

With a Baer, Brown, or Wilson one gets much higher quality parts (read no MIM junk) that are actually hand fit buy a true gunsmith. Not only are the parts better quality in their manufacture but they are generally designed with more forethought. For example, the grip safety on a Kimber sets the gun much higher in the hand when compared to the grip safety on an Ed Brown gun. The lower bore axis of the Brown not only make the gun set lower in ones hand but also makes the gun more enjoyable and some would say easier to shoot.... although that may be a bit of a stretch. Another example is the thumb safety on the aforementioned guns.... the Ed Brown part is, IMO, the best-designed extended thumb safety on the market. The pad shape and design is unobtrusive and the geometry between the pin and the plate the pin attaches to are the most consistent I’ve ever seen. Additionally, the lug on the thumb safety that engages the sear and also blocks the hammers forward travel when the safety is “on” is (when used with most quality hammers) large enough to completely lock the hammer in place. Those are just a few little things that, in my limited experience , indicate a better more thoughtfully designed part and those better parts (when combined with expert hand fitting) help to make a truly better and longer lasting gun. Those are just a couple of reasons why an Ed Brown, Les Baer, or Wilson Combat can cost more money.

IMO, you can’t build a cheap 1911 and expect it to last. It takes good parts and a competent hand to put a 1911 together and that’s what you get when you buy a Brown, Baer, or Wilson. But, in all honesty, many people may not be able to tell the difference between a nice 1911 and a nicer 1911 and if you’re one of those people the extra money spent may very well be wasted. This isn’t meant to sound elitist but, sometimes it takes an experienced hand to tell the difference between a $750 1911 and a $2200 1911, YMMV.

Link Posted: 8/12/2003 8:03:15 PM EDT
Wow, you should be writing reviews in the gun mags. Maybe you do. Thanks for the excellent readout. Time to save my pennies.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 8:23:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 8:25:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/12/2003 8:40:45 PM EDT by Lumpy196]


How can you look at that and not think drop dead sexy?
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 8:48:04 PM EDT
Group Buy?
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 9:03:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 9:16:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Coal_Creek_Armory:
Group buy of two! Sounds like a winner to me.

Of course, we'll have to do this after we've beaten Lumpy for taunting us so.



Agreed. Posting that pic was just plain mean.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 9:19:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 11:25:25 PM EDT






Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:11:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:22:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MissouriBob:
Wow, you should be writing reviews in the gun mags. Maybe you do. Thanks for the excellent readout. Time to save my pennies.



Thanks.... no gun writer here though just the good, bad, and the ugly on what works, what doesn’t, and what’s a good deal in 1911s.

Link Posted: 8/13/2003 6:27:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 6:29:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Coal_Creek_Armory:
Ok, that's it. You're getting a wedgie for that.



AND a swirlie

Link Posted: 8/15/2003 7:12:25 PM EDT
CCA,

Now that you are a dealer what kind of price would I be looking at for the Kobra Carry?

MissouriBob
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 7:14:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 7:39:30 PM EDT
mail sent!
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 11:06:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 11:08:25 PM EDT
Very true about Krebs creating that first. Anyone that saw that beautiful hard-chromed .40 S&W 1911 Marc built a couple years ago on the cover of American Handgunner will remember it.

Wow Wes, I dont think Ive ever seen you post pics of a hand gun
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 10:09:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 4:40:34 PM EDT
Well Im even more impressed that its a 1911
Link Posted: 8/23/2003 6:22:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2003 6:23:10 PM EDT by dangles1]
Don't need a wedgie, but here is my Ed Brown Classic Custom.
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 6:49:25 AM EDT
Sweeeeet!!
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 5:02:27 PM EDT
Dangles, that is really gorgeous.
Lum-py! I lurk here alot more than I post and I really appreciate your insights. But, I have to question your comment about only letting a "carry gun 'smith, not a gamer gun 'smith" work your gun. Reliability is number one for all the gamers I know and know of. As in a carry gun, get a jam or failure to fire and it's game over.
I feel a little crappy about picking out one thing I didn't like out of all the many, many things you've shared here that I really do like.
Tom Bergman
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 5:27:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2003 5:29:48 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
I should have clarified on my gamer v. serious use smiths. Game-gun builders tend to have the "Look what I can put on here thats cool/look what I can checker/look where I can remove metal/look what I can anodize funny colors" attitude. They see things like a faster lock time from titanium parts as a fair trade off for the durability of tool steel, things like that. I know, Ive spent good money on game guns too. Carry-gun smiths like Novak, Vickers,Williams etc encourage you to keep your serious use guns as simple as possible and build them with long term durability in mind.

Im not bagging on the guys that build race guns, they make some sweet pieces that will be totally reliable for their intended purpose. But they are not the guys I normally turn to to build me a gun thats going to run in the muck and save my bacon.

Its more of the "Let me do this to your gun" attitude versus the "you dont need that" attitude.
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 7:46:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 7:53:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2003 7:59:09 PM EDT by tberg]
That's cool Lumpy. This thread has made me start thinking a little more. That almost always ends up costing me money. Let's see, if I gather up what I have now and sell would I have enough for one EB?
I'll think about it $ome more.
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 7:57:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2003 8:01:55 PM EDT by MSTN]
Link Posted: 8/24/2003 8:45:45 PM EDT
Damn Wes, good choices in holsters too. I stick to Sparks, Kramer and Blade-Tech for my 1911s.

Where does one look at these holsters from the Wilderness? Im not seeing them on your site or thiers.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 3:48:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 8:52:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stokes:
Since I currently own a 1911 that is WAY better than anything AJohnston has, I think that I could shed a bit of insight on this as well....



Ahhh c’mon Stokes we both know that’s true only ‘cause I haven’t dealt it off you yet .... soon my friend. Besides all that ’avant-garde’ stuff doesn't really get me excited. None the less I agree with your statement 100%.

Link Posted: 10/13/2003 1:59:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2003 1:59:36 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Ed is making my life hell....what to sell off for this?:

The new Executive Elite

Link Posted: 10/13/2003 2:56:16 PM EDT
Wet blanket a commin!


While I will say that Brown makes a very nice 1911 - they are over priced.

Frame of refference: 2 Baers (TRS and SRP w/ 1.5" guarantee) 1 Ed Brown Kobra Carry.

I am not knockin Brown and I sure as hell am not gonna sell mine, but for what you get - it doesn't live up to the hype. The finish was no better than my TRS (they are both blue), the snake skin - a personal pref matter - isn't grabby enough for me and IMHO it is silly not to extend the snakeskin treatment to and then past the radius of the bobtail and all the way to the mag well. Mine is an accurate gun - on par with TRS - neither are as accurate as the SRP. The trigger on the Brown is better than the Baers. My Kobra came with some fit issues that had to be corrected. (Both Baers have had to go back for re-work as well).

And yes, at this level - do not fool yourself - you are paying for name. Don't think so? Check the price of a Springer basic or a Kimber Custom 2 and the cost to replace all the MIM - you'll beat a Baer, Brown or Wilson by at least $800.00.


As for leather - I have a very narrow opinion on this - Milt Sparks - BN55 or VM2.


Good luck
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 3:16:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2003 3:24:13 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Wet blanket away. I happen to prefer the way Browns are fit (tight, but not rediculous),finished, their grip and manual safety designs (Baers thumb safety looks like an afterthought, and isnt comfortable to me at all), the use of Novak sights as opposed to the Baer copy and the fact that they actually mount the sight as low as possible in the slide. Not to mention the fact, Im not a fan of front cocking serations.

So by the time I add the parts I want to a Baer, the cost of a Brown is worth it to me.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 4:16:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2003 4:18:08 PM EDT by Vermilion]
Ed Brown Kobra Carry in Two-Tone with black AlumaGrips.




I love this gun more than any I own. My wilson CQB doesn't compare. I think I might have to get another in all stainless. It is well worth the price tag.
Top Top