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Posted: 8/8/2003 6:18:32 AM EDT
Hi fellas,
I handled fondled some Glocks and a Walther PPK 5 at the gun shop last night. I bought my 12 gauge last night so my next purchase will be a handgun for concealed carry. So, I checked out the Glock. Asked the nice lady to be sure I understood the operation (slide release id and mag release id), then I pulled the slide back and it locked. Then I wanted to release it. I pushed on the release, wouldn't move, I reaallllly pushed on the release, wouldn't move. It took me about 45 seconds of working on that thing to finally get the slide to go. I was trying with the mag in and out. (if the mag is empty, does it have to be out?) Is this typical of Glocks? I was expecting the release to be doable with my thumb on my shooting hand. That was a definite no go.
Then, I looked at the Walther PPK 5 I believe. I liked the size and appearance, but, where's the slide release? My buddy (also unfamiliar with said weapons) was able to get it to close by holding the slide back and pulling the trigger, I think that's what he did. Anyway, how is it supposed to work? Anyone else think the safety on the PPK is a little hard to work consistently?

Finally, recommend a concealed carry gun, semi-auto, that I could conceal very easily. Summer wear for me is usually khaki shorts and a t-shirt untucked. I was thinking something like the PPK in a holster inside my waistband on my shooting hand side. It would hide under my t-shirt.

Thanks,
J
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 7:41:03 AM EDT
First you should get in the habit of using the "over hand" method of releasing the slide. Reach over and grab the top of the slide with your weak/support hand. Pull it rearward and release. That's all you need to do, you don't need to pull the trigger, in fact your trigger finger should not be anywhere near it. Trigger finger up against the frame outside the trigger guard please.

The reason is that working a slide release with your thumb uses "fine" motor skill, and you can fumble when under stress. Grabbing the slide overhand uses "gross" motor skill, and it much easier to do under stress.

The "slide release" on the Glock you fondled is more of a slide stop. While it can release the slide, it is more for locking the slide back when a mag runs dry, or to manually lock the slide back to show clear.

As far as carry guns, most important is to shoot them. First fondle them in a gun store and see i they fit your hand. then make a point of finding a shooting range that rents them or a friend that has one and take it for a test drive. If you can't shoot it accurately (feel you can do s0 in the future), then it doesn't matter how concealable it is.

As far as carry guns I like the Glocks of course. On top of that I would look at the Kahr PM9, springfeild xd, and CZ p-01
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 8:03:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2003 8:09:36 AM EDT by Matthew_Q]
you mean the PPK/ S?

I had one.. .great pistol. Accurate as hell.

Yar got it right, with the PPK and PPK/S, it does not have an external slide stop. One of the things I DIDN'T like about it. To release the slide, first TAKE OUT THE EMPTY MAG! then with your weak hand, tug the slide back a little. It will unlock and slide forward. Do not let it slam closed when empty.

Now, if you DO get the PPK, when LOADING it, with the slide locked back, insert a fresh mag (finger OFF of the trigger of couse), tug the slide back so it releases and LET IT FLY CLOSED. Do not ride it forward. If the slide is closed when loading, insert the mag, and yank the slide back and let it fly forward. The PPK can be finicky about feeding if you don't let it slam closed.

On another note, if you really like the PPK format, but want an external slide release (and want to save some $$), check out the Bersa Thunder 380. It's a copy of the PPK, but it's not an EXACT copy. It looks similar and functions almost identically. The mag feeds higher for better feeding. I'd highly recommend if you want a PPK style pistol but don't want to pay PPK $$.

Link Posted: 8/8/2003 9:38:18 AM EDT
Aha, PPK/S, that must've been it. Don't worry about me with the finger on trigger bit, I don't think I even touched either one while handling them.
You think the PPK/S is expensive? The one I saw was used for about $31x.00 I believe. That seems reasonable to me.
I'm seriously thinking about a Keltec P32. They even have a belt clip accessory so I wouldn't need a holster. Any thoughts on those? I visited www.ktog.org and all the reviews were pretty much glowing. I haven't found one to handle yet though.

Thanks,
J
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 9:51:37 AM EDT
Start w/ a Makarov 9x18mm...100% reliable and it has a "soul"...I just traded of my LAST Glock
and couldn't be happier!
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 9:52:12 AM EDT
If your fondling guns at the gunshop, go ahead nd test the triggers. Point the gun in a safe direction and give a squeeze. The trigger is one of the most important ergonomics of the gun.

As far as the Keltec goes, it's not a bad gun. I personally would prefer something else. I would stay away from the belt clip thing. You want a real holster that covers the trigger guard. I perfer the kydex holsters myself. They hold their shape for reholstering the gun, and don't absorb sweat.

The pager pal holster and smart carry is also interesting.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 5:46:19 PM EDT
The Glock line of pistols are not my favorites, but they do conceal very nicely and they are about ideal for summer carry. Look at a Walther P99 as well.

As to the Glock slide release, the springs in those 10 round magazines are hellacious when new. This makes the slide release/slide lock hard to press down, as it is pushed up by the mag follower and the force of the mag spring. It can be done if you push hard enough.

The PP/PPK pistols have no slide release. You must remove the empty mag and manually pull back and release the slide.

I can successfully use the slide release on my Beretta pistols under stress, as well as on my 1911 and the Glocks before I sold them. It becomes second nature if you TRAIN enough to do it. But there are also times where you will need the overhand method (especially jam clearance) so learn that too.

I don't have to worry about slide lock on my Walther or my Sigs, as my large hands tend to keep the slide release pushed down anyway.

I think a Walther P99, Glock 19, or a Sig P239 would suit your warm weather carry needs quite well.

Of the guns I own/have owned, the Sig P239 is the easiest to conceal under a T-shirt and it shoots pretty good too. But I tend to reach for the P99 most because I want the 16 rounds at my disposal. I sometimes carry the P239 as a backup to my P99 or my Beretta 92.

The P99 conceals well too and has a better trigger, sights and ergonomics than the Glock pistols. I really like mine a lot, and I am VERY picky about the handguns I will carry.

When choosing a carry gun buy something that is excellent. You are betting your life on that choice, so don't skimp. I have never known any serious self defense weapon wielder to weild a Kel-Tech as a primary gun. I have seen the .32 caliber ones used by one SWAT officer, but he had an M4 and a Glock 22 to reach for before going for that last ditch 32.

Some of the KT's are very good. Some of them are jam-o-matics, and there is no way to tell until AFTER you have sunk money into it.

For a good bargain on a serious defensive handgun, check out places like KY Imports and CDNN investments. They sell top shelf pistols in excellent working order for insanely low prices. (Police trade in guns...Maybe a rough finish but in great working order because they have been carried much more than shot...)



Link Posted: 8/10/2003 7:14:04 AM EDT
As someone else suggested, if you have a range nearby that rents guns, I suggest renting and shooting a few different pistols that you might want to carry concealed. Select the one that feels most comfortable to you, not what is comfortable to anyone else.

I have small hands, so I have a few of the pistols designed for concealed carry: two Glocks a Model 26 (9mm) and a Model 36 (.45), two Kahrs, both 9 mm, the MK9, and the MP9, and a Keltec in .32 caliber.

I prefer my Glocks for concealed carry, but I also carry the Kahrs or the Keltec at times. It depends on what I am wearing. Some styles of clothing, fabrics and colors will make it difficult to conceal the Glocks, because they are wider than the Kahrs and the Keltec. The reason that I prefer the Glocks is that the trigger pull is much shorter and I feel most comfortable with them. They are lightweight. The Glock 26 was my first semi-automatic, so I am very familiar with how it shoots. I bought my first .45 to carry about seven months ago.

I like the Kahrs, they are great pistols, my only complaint is that I think the the trigger pull is very long. The Keltec I use primarily when I am wearing exercise wear, because everything else is so heavy. The Keltec in .32 is for close range only. I don't have any experience with the other Keltec pistols, so I can't comment on them.

The most important thing is to pick a firearm that feels comfortable to you, comfortable in your hand, comfortable while shooting, but most importantly, that you feel comfortable with its features if you need it to defend yourself. I prefer the Glocks and Kahrs because all I have to think about if I need to use it, is aiming and pulling the trigger. Good Luck!
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