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Posted: 8/6/2003 1:26:18 PM EDT

A question to 1911s experts:

Anyone ever have an accident with AD when you rack the slide (to have one in the chamber) on 1911s (finger off trigger, of course) ?

I did a 'search' but didn't see a topic concerning this question.

Thanks.

Link Posted: 8/6/2003 1:29:56 PM EDT
I have heard this can be caused by a bad sear, but this was just in a gunsmithing ook I read some years ago, so dont quote me. Sounds like a slipping sear.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 1:37:37 PM EDT
I've seen the hammer follow the slide, more than once, but never seen it cause an AD. That's what the halfcock notch is for.

Link Posted: 8/6/2003 1:48:07 PM EDT
i have never heard of it. But it's probably possible with one of the series 70 or older models. With the Series 80, it's for all intents and purposes impossible. The firing pin block on a series 80 prevents thespring loaded firing pin from moving unless the trigger is pulled. Only other way to get it to go off is iff the firing pin block linkage breaks.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 2:14:46 PM EDT
Short of a severely worn 1911 that was LONG overdue for a maintenance and parts visit to a good gunsmith, that type of AD is extremely rare.

John Browning's 1911 has a package of safety features in it that are unobtrusive, effective, and rarely surpassed on almost any handgun almost a century later.

The most under-appreciated of these is the grip safety. It takes ZERO time, effort, or thought to engage it, it's completely automatic, it's effective, and personally, I'd like to see it incorporated into EVERY handgun design as a matter of routine.

CJ
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 2:40:02 PM EDT
Been an IPSC range officer and competitor for around 16 years. Never seen an AD as you describe through many, many thousands of rounds through 1911s. All ADs I have witnessed had one thing in common, a finger on the trigger when it should not have been, usually during a mag change or while clearing a jam.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 4:50:25 PM EDT


Thanks. Since I have several 1911s, I also carry concealed one. I just want to make sure as far as probability of AD. Your responsed give me better insight.
I also posted at 1911forum, got some responses from members there that I think very educational:

www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55150
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 5:47:53 AM EDT
I had an SA 1911 Loaded that would occasionally drop the hammer to halfcock when closing the slide. Took it all apart, checked the sear and hammer, everything looked fine, so I wiped it all down, reassembled, and it never happened again.

Link Posted: 8/7/2003 9:11:14 AM EDT
I have an SA that will occasionally drop the hammer to half cock when I would drop the slide from the locked back position onto and empty chamber.

I then learned that you NEVER drop a slide that is loicked back onto an empty chamber if the pistol has had an action job.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 9:15:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
I have an SA that will occasionally drop the hammer to half cock when I would drop the slide from the locked back position onto and empty chamber.

I then learned that you NEVER drop a slide that is loicked back onto an empty chamber if the pistol has had an action job.


Why not?
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 9:51:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2003 9:59:11 AM EDT by Dolomite]
I was SOing an indoor IDPA match in Racine this past winter. A shooter I know to be very experienced and very safe was performing an off-the-clock slide lock reload on his Springfield 1911A1 in between stages.

He inserted a magazine loaded with CCI Blazer ball and dropped the slide by hitting the slide release with his thumb. The moment the slide went into battery the gun went off. The gun cycled perfectly. The gun was pointed right at the backstop and his finger was still outside the trigger guard when this happened. We both just looked at each other in disbelief.

I had him unload and show clear and he took the gun to one of the guys working in the gun store attached to the range to check the gun out. They verified that the firing pin return spring was OK and that the half-cock notch was working etc, they couldn't find anything wrong with it.

We let him complete the match after he test fired the gun and everything on it worked fine. He's put several hundred rounds through that 1911 with out a hitch since.

To this day nobody knows why that slam fire occurred - maybe there was a chunk of debris preventing the firing pin from rebounding that got blown away after the gun discharged - but it just goes to show that if you're around long enough their is no end to the weird shit you'll see.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 9:56:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:

I then learned that you NEVER drop a slide that is loicked back onto an empty chamber if the pistol has had an action job.


Why not?



Not sure why that'd be an impediment to a gun with an action job – but I know that guns with match tuned triggers can have their stoned edges of the sear banged up and wrecked from the jarring forces of the slide closing IF there’s no rearward pressure applied to the trigger holding everything steady.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 2:07:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2003 2:08:50 AM EDT by serrada]
I have seen this also with a friend's Springfield ultra compact. It actually fired a round while dropping the slide on a loaded magazine. Luckily, he had the gun pointed down and away. And no, his finger wasn't in the trigger guard. He broke it down, cleaned the shit out of it, and has never had the problem since. Even took it to a gunsmith and he couldn't find anything wrong with it.

As for dropping the slide on an empty chamber here is what this website had to say about it.

www.guntests.com/performance/dec96letters.html


As to the reason for not allowing the slide to be released on an empty chamber, that has to do with the shock of the slide moving unimpeded into battery causing jarring and eventual damage to the hammer and sear engagement from severe vibration, which in turn will result in the kind of follow through of the hammer that you were experiencing with your Springfield pistol and possibly inducing slam-firing. You can prevent such damage as well as the risk of slam-fire, whether or not the pistol is feeding a cartridge, by holding the hammer back with your thumb when releasing the slide.



Here also is what the Springfield manual says.





Originally Posted By NAM:
i have never heard of it. But it's probably possible with one of the series 70 or older models. With the Series 80, it's for all intents and purposes impossible. The firing pin block on a series 80 prevents thespring loaded firing pin from moving unless the trigger is pulled. Only other way to get it to go off is iff the firing pin block linkage breaks.



Did all the manufacturers adopt the series 80 design? I know that Para Ordnance and Kimber did. But, I'm almost sure that Springfield didn't.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 5:55:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By serrada:
Did all the manufacturers adopt the series 80 design? I know that Para Ordnance and Kimber did. But, I'm almost sure that Springfield didn't.

Not to pick nits, but while Kimber did adopt a passive firing pin safety that performs a function similar to the Series 80 safety it is a very different design.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 2:19:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
Not to pick nits, but while Kimber did adopt a passive firing pin safety that performs a function similar to the Series 80 safety it is a very different design.


That's OK. Yeah, Kimber uses the grip safety to push the plunger out of the way instead of the trigger. Para Ordnance does,however, use the actual series 80 design.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 2:37:38 PM EDT
Never seen it or heard of it in years of using the 1911 and using it in competition.

On non-firing pin safety models the only way it could conceivably happen is if the firing pin were to become trapped extended outside the hole in the breach face, but I can even visualize that happening. Even an extremely old and worn firing pin spring will keep the pin back in its channel where it belongs.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 5:27:54 PM EDT
I never had this problem with my POJ Springfield, but I wouldn't put it past that lemon...

A 1911 in proper working order, however, should not have this problem. The only things I know that would cause this issue are a busted and stuck firing pin or a bigtime failure of the sear.

I have only heard about these in theory. Never seen the real thing.

Sometimes bits of brass can get wedged in the firing pin hole and can cause an AD like this, but that is a rare event too...
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 8:06:02 PM EDT
There is a LOT of info aboiut this on the 1911forum.org.

Link Posted: 8/9/2003 6:03:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SC-Texas:
There is a LOT of info aboiut this on the 1911forum.org.




Actually, none, as I can see. Did a search there also. Posted a thread there.
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