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Posted: 8/3/2003 11:07:38 PM EDT
In the last 10 years, of carrying at least one handgun all day every day, I have tried at least 30 different guns. Some acceptable, some great, some crap.


Strongly recomend:
Glock 21
Glock 17
Glock 23
Glock 26
S&W 442
S&W 3913
Springfield "Milspec" M1911
Sig P225

Conditional recommendation:
Beretta 950BS
Sig P230, P226, P239 .40SW
Glock 19,20,17L

Avoid:
Glock 30
Taurus 85CH
Ruger P90T
Sig P220
Walther PP
Beretta 21A
NAA Mini revolver
SW "Sigma" SW380
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 11:41:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
In the last 10 years, of carrying at least one handgun all day every day, I have tried at least 30 different guns. Some acceptable, some great, some crap.


Strongly recomend:
Glock 21
Glock 17
Glock 23
Glock 26
S&W 442
S&W 3913
Springfield "Milspec" M1911
Sig P225

Conditional recommendation:
Beretta 950BS
Sig P230, P226, P239 .40SW
Glock 19,20,17L

Avoid:
Glock 30
Taurus 85CH
Ruger P90T
Sig P220
Walther PP
Beretta 21A
NAA Mini revolver
SW "Sigma" SW380



Curious as to why you didn't like it?(I have one but don't carry)
Was it too thick?
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 12:05:43 AM EDT
I did not like the Glock 30 becuase it was very bulky, plus my pinky was always getting pinched udeer recoil between the magazine and the bottum of the grip. Additionally, it was less reliable than my Glock 21.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 3:45:10 AM EDT
Other than the Sig 220 being full size (but you also mentioned the SA 1911 as a keeper) what don't you like about it?
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:00:50 AM EDT
I think I speak for all of us when I say we want to hear why those guns made your "avoid" list.

And why is the G19 on the "conditional" list? Because it's 9mm?
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:06:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 6:07:15 AM EDT by Lumpy196]
Gee,

The SIG P226, P220 and the Glock 19 are 3 of my favorite guns. I guess I'll have to get rid of them now.

A G30 is bulky, but a G21 isnt?
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:15:26 AM EDT
What Lumpy said.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 7:34:49 AM EDT
My List:

Would buy again:

Beretta 92FS
Beretta 92 Elite
Walther P99 9mm
HK USP/USP Compact
Les Baer 1911
Sig P239
S&W 442
S&W 629 Classic

Would NOT:

Glock 17 (bad trigger, slide cuts my hand in recoil, horrid sights, slippery grip)
Glock 32 (bad trigger, slide cuts my hand even WORSE in recoil, sights terrible until I got trijicons, grip still slippery even with finger grooves)
Springfield "Loaded" Parkerized finish (Failed to go into battery properly most of the time with HARDBALL ammo, safety plunger broke, tube bent rendering safety useless, rear sight came off, ADed at the drop of a hat, and even doubled on me once.)
Colt Annoconda (trigger would not return after being pulled. After 2 trips to the factory it STILL didn't work until I took a jeweler's file and fixed it myself, firing pin broke after a couple of hundred rounds AT MOST, fit and finish was terrible)
Heritage Single Action (just plain crap...)
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:56:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FreeAmerican:
Other than the Sig 220 being full size (but you also mentioned the SA 1911 as a keeper) what don't you like about it?



The long trigger pull and long trigger reset made Double taps very slow. The high bore to grip axis made recoil more pronounced than a 1911 or Glock 21.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:58:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 10:02:13 AM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
And why is the G19 on the "conditional" list? Because it's 9mm?



No, I'm actually very fond of small 9mm's. But my Glock 19 started having NYPD type "Phase III" malfunctions with 147Gn ammo. This is a problem with the glock 19, Glock has tried a couple of different fixes, including modifying the skides of several thousand guns for one agency. My Glock 17 and Glock 26 have even higher round counts than my 19, but never had that problem.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 12:45:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A G30 is bulky, but a G21 isnt?



I guess chunky would be a better word than bulky. However the widest part of a Glock 30 is the oversized floorplate of the 10 round mag. Which is wider than any part of a Glock 21.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 10:29:41 PM EDT
What didn't you like about the Taurus 85CH? is that one of the versions that's basically a DAO? I have a plain jane model 85 that seems to be a decent gun.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 12:55:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
A G30 is bulky, but a G21 isnt?



I guess chunky would be a better word than bulky. However the widest part of a Glock 30 is the oversized floorplate of the 10 round mag. Which is wider than any part of a Glock 21.


I'll have to look at the floorplate tomorrow
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 4:39:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2003 4:41:13 AM EDT by Dog1]
Avoid the P220?.....one of the best out of the box non-1911 .45's made....and you put avoid it...?????

IMO...you should add all Glocks to the avoid list as well....

You also forgot to add the P228...one of the best double stack 9mm's....mucho better than the Glock 19..
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 5:45:03 AM EDT
This thread is about "carry" guns. Not all of us want to carry a full sized service pistol. Nobody is saying they are crappy guns.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 10:19:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
This thread is about "carry" guns.



Correct. Specifically guns that I carried every day. Some of the guns, that I wont use as a carry gun, make an excellent IPSC gun or Plinking gun. But for a gun you wear 16 hours a day, little things can make a big difference.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 10:24:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2003 10:26:37 AM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By Dog1:
You also forgot to add the P228...



No, I have never owned a P228. Unlike many, I wont give advise on guns I havent owned. Loan me your P228 for a year and I'll get back to you on where it would go on my list.

I suspect, being a double stack Sig, that it would be wider than I like, and have a very long trigger reset. Of course you can install the short trigger from the P225 in any P226/228.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 10:56:01 AM EDT
I had my first Phase III malfunction with my Glock 19 the other day. I was shooting 147 grain Remington JHPs. I'd switch to a lighter grain, but the Golden Sabres are the only quality ammo (as defined by the gelatin gurus) I have been able to find.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 5:18:33 PM EDT
What are Phase III malfunctions?
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 1:55:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cerebus:
What are Phase III malfunctions?



NYPD came up with the term becuase there wasnt a term to describe this exact malfunction: The casing extracts, but is not ejected. The extractor holds the caseing against the upper part of the breech face and then the case mouth is crushed against the barrel hood as the slide goes forward. (Picture a "stove-pipe" only the caseing is horizantal instead of vertical)

My Glock 19 only requires I invert the pistol and rack the slide to clear the stoppage. Many Glocks 19's actually jam up tight when they have a phase III malfunction and require tools to clear.

It's a common problem with Glock 19 pistols with a high round count. 147Gn ammo seem to do it more than other loads. the Glock 19 is the only Glock that has this problem, Glock cant figure out why. It would appear that lightening the extractor tension, or lenghtening the ejector would cure it. But Glock has tried those ideas without sucess.
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 1:57:44 AM EDT
Imposter,
Try some Black Hills or CCI 124Gn (+P) Gold Dots. They offer acceptable terminal performance, and the increased slide velocity may help prevent Phase III malfunctions. Or trade your Glock 19 in on a 17 or 26.
Link Posted: 8/8/2003 6:03:16 PM EDT
I hasten to add that every Sig I have fired has been superbly accurate and completely reliable. At one of my training classes the only pistol other than my Beretta 92 Elite to not suffer some sort of major issue was a Sig P226.
Link Posted: 8/9/2003 5:59:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2003 6:03:59 PM EDT by tivoli410]

I guess chunky would be a better word than bulky. However the widest part of a Glock 30 is the oversized floorplate of the 10 round mag. Which is wider than any part of a Glock 21.


Alright I took a look at the G30 with the mag in place. I cant tell what you're refering to?

Here are some pics with the mag(with extention) in place...

From the Back of the Grip


From the Front of the Grip


From the Side


Also about the pinky pinching with the mag, it has never happened to me. If you are talking about when you are putting a new mag in, it would do that on any gun made.

Edited to add: I've had one FTE in over 1500 rounds. It was with cheap remanufactured ammo.
Link Posted: 8/9/2003 6:17:09 PM EDT
Two guns that are with me all day, every day, no matter where I am: a Glock 27 (IWB at 3 o'clock-strong side) Kel-Tec P-32 (left front pocket- weak side).

Add to that once a week my S&W 442 Stainless, which rides on my left ankle. I don't like this method of carry, but it's good for riding in a convertible- quick access while seated.

I'm looking into wearing my G35 in an IWB holster, with the G27 on my ankle, and ditching the S&W 442. G35 is very challenging to carry concealed, but well worth the effort in a high-risk area.
Link Posted: 8/9/2003 6:20:57 PM EDT
Guns I would never again carry concealed:

Ruger P89- too heavy, bluky, and clumsy for the caliber and round count.

Mossberg 500 w/ pistol gripped stock (tried this once with a tight tac sling and a large overcoat- it was unconfortable and I could never bend down or walk properly.

Ditto for the 14.5" AR- no go.

MP5/Uzi/MAC works ok for me with a large-cut sport coat, but I don't currently own any suitable SMG's.
Link Posted: 8/9/2003 6:24:17 PM EDT
Glock 19, S&W Centennial, S&W 5946, and Glock 21. I'm 6'2" 250, carrying/concealing the larger pistols isn't too difficult for me. They have, and continue to serve well over the years. YMMV!
Mike, NY
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