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Posted: 7/18/2003 7:26:25 AM EDT
Somebody persuade me to use something else. I use 115 FMJ for my USPc and 230 Grain for My Tactical. I know that this ammo is reliable and I shoot/practice with it. It seems that these to factors outweigh the benefits of the personal defense genre of ammo, which I wouldn't shoot until I had to. Any thoughts?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 7:46:41 AM EDT
FMJ/hardball will work fine, and has a history of adequate performance behind it. Having said that, if your gun will reliably feed a quality JHP you will probably be better off using that. Bullet technology has done some amazing things in the last 10 to 20 years, and there is no reason not to take advantage of that technology when possible.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 8:51:04 AM EDT
2 worlds... Excessive Penetration.
It will penetrate and exit a wall/BG and maybe hit a kid.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 8:58:47 AM EDT
i've been told if you're going to carry in the woods (bears) use fmj. i'd just find something hp that runs fine for the 2 legged vermin as far as city carry goes.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 1:04:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 1:05:19 PM EDT by AZGunnut]
It all comes down to penatration! If your going to carry in a populated area you need defensive rounds! The problem with fmj, as stated above is that they will go right through your intended target and into whatever might be behind it! As the law states that your responsible for everything your bullet hits theirs no way I'd use fmj for personal defense! If you hit your intended target "In self defense" but the bullet tears through them and into someone minding their own buisness guess who goes to jail? Just my two cents worth!!
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 1:24:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 1:36:47 PM EDT by RugerCal480]
One NYPD article I read a while ago said that before the NYPD started using Hollow Points, more bystanders were killed than intended criminal assailants, with bullets going through the criminals and lodging in unsuspecting bystanders. PENETRATION....man, if that doesn't excite you, the defense lawyers will have a field day should you ever have to use that CCW. Get some deep pockets.... You will need them with FMJ's in a CCW. Put simply...Don't bother reading the ballistics or comparing what you have used at the range....how much that you have and how much of your life's time can you afford to loose?.....Persuaded?
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 7:27:53 PM EDT
It depends on where you carry. In the country or a big liberal city carry FMJs (who cares if a Hillary Klintoon supporter is taken out? right? ) .

Otherwise carry something else.

CRC

Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:06:46 PM EDT
Ask Clint Smith (Thunder Ranch) what he carries in his 45s.

Answer FMJ.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:19:26 PM EDT
<hehe>
Like I said, FMJ in a carry weapon in a minimally populated area=Four More Judges: i.e. conviction, appeal, appeal the appeal, sentencing. Carry whatcha wish to pay with : )
Besides with FMJ you get two for the price of one...doesn't everybody love a bargain????? Thunder Ranch is NOT an urban street, nor a suburban development.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 12:55:46 AM EDT
OK, let me ask this same question in a different manner.....would you rather have a .45 caliber or a .75 caliber? Would you rather have a .36 caliber or a .65 caliber? That is in effect the difference in performance between FMJ and the better JHP's when used in .45's and 9mm's. I think it should be obvious which has the potential to be more effective. Again, the only two ways to rapidly stop a threat are a direct CNS hit or by making the bad guy bleed out. Well, a round that penetrates well and expands to nearly twice it's original diameter is going to crush far more tissue and tissue crush is the means of achieving rapid bleed out. It's a no brainer which is most effective.

Now in regards to Clint Smith, I think he operates a fine school and is no doubt a very good instructor. But I only consider him an expert at teaching people how to shoot and train in tactics. Because he knows these skills doesn't necessarily make him an expert on ammo. Just like driving a car doesn't make us mechanics. Therefore I would have no problem seeking training under Clint, but I would seek ammo info elsewhere.

Clint uses FMJ for one reason.....he thinks it is more reliable in function. But we all know that any quality modern handgun should feed fine with JHP's and if it won't, then it's not the ammo's fault. If Clint's pistol doesn't function well with JHP, maybe he should consider a different weapon? Just my opinions.

-Charging Handle
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