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Posted: 7/11/2003 10:09:47 AM EDT
I know they are made in Croatia and used to be called the HS200. And now they are getting popular it seems. For those of you that own one is there anything I should look out for? I hope to use it as a duty gun and was wondering if there is any reliabilty issues I should know about. And what bullets to use. It seems like a well manufactured weapon, but I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet(I got it last night). Any information will be appreciated. TIA
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 3:58:55 PM EDT
No info for ya...BUT nice gun!
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 9:48:04 PM EDT
nice gun, congrats!
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 9:52:30 AM EDT
I have two! A 4" 40cal with the ported barrell and a 9mm compact for my cc. The sights have the same dovetail as the sigs so if your looking for nightsights they work! I used the Meprolight's on mine and they work great. If your looking let me know and I'll give you the website where I got mine. Holsters are the issue for me, no good cc holsters out that I can find yet! Anyhow awsome guns I'm sure you'll love yours!
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 9:54:03 AM EDT
oh yeah! I shoot reloads through mine with 0 malfunctions and over 2500 rounds combined!!
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 9:57:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AK-kb:
I know they are made in Croatia and used to be called the HS200. And now they are getting popular it seems. For those of you that own one is there anything I should look out for? I hope to use it as a duty gun and was wondering if there is any reliabilty issues I should know about. And what bullets to use. It seems like a well manufactured weapon, but I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet(I got it last night). Any information will be appreciated. TIA



HS2000

Run it extensively at the range, you'll answer your own questions.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 2:18:23 PM EDT
Why would anyone buy the XD's when you can buy a Glock which has proven itself for twenty years to the most reliable, well designed, size-efficient, cost-effective pistol made?

I just don't see why someone would choose the XD over the Glock when the XD is a mere copy and is further complicated by the grip safety.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 2:30:26 PM EDT
i am also looking at the XD40 in 4"....fixing to purchase at the end of the month....as far as buying it over a glock...here's why I would...ive read and heard nothing but good reviews on the gun...its been recommended by many to me....the glock on the other hand...thats not the case...so as far as an XD being a glock copy....maybe it started out that way...but you can ALWAYS take a design and make it better...as seems to be the case here.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 4:02:51 PM EDT
From what I have been hearing, the XD seems to be a well liked and reliable pistol. I have yet to buy one as I will wait another year or so to give the guns time to start having any longer term issues to start popping up. But I suspect there will be few problems.

And while I do like the Glock 17/19 9mm (I don't care much about the Glock's chambered for other calibers), many find the XD just as reliable. While I have no problem with the Glock grip angle, many find the XD grip more comfortable. So they aren't just a copy of the Glock, but rather, they took the best features of the Glock and a couple of other designs and molded them together into one.

And in regards to ammo, I would choose the Winchester Ranger 147 gr JHP's. The Ranger 127 gr +P+ is also a great load but has more muzzle blast and recoil with no real performance increase over the 147 gr version. The Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P is also an excellent load. You didn't specify caliber so I assume your's is a 9mm? If it's a .40, I prefer the Winchester Ranger and Speer Gold Dot as well, in 180 gr.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 6:09:48 PM EDT
AK-kb,

I too took the plunge and got the XD40. I just love it. In fact, I sold my Glock 23 to fund it. Yes, it was a very tough decision. The grip fitsmy hand better than even a 1911, in my opinion, and a 1911 fits pretty darn good. I have heard of some people having problems with some of the early extractors which SA has now upgraded and made a little beefier. The finish on the slide and bbl is also quite lightweight. Many are going to hard chrome or other aftermarket finish for better rust resistance. Go to HS2000 & SA-XD Talk for a really nice forum on the Croatian Sensation. Happy Shooting!
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 8:06:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lance1775:
Why would anyone buy the XD's when you can buy a Glock which has proven itself for twenty years to the most reliable, well designed, size-efficient, cost-effective pistol made?

I just don't see why someone would choose the XD over the Glock when the XD is a mere copy and is further complicated by the grip safety.



Feels better, shoots better, looks better, $100 less expensive, and doesn't blow up in your hands. You are right. I don't know why anyone would want this.

I love my XD9 Subcompact.

Link Posted: 7/13/2003 8:18:30 PM EDT
I still have'nt had time to take XD-40 to the range yet but it sounds like I will like it. I also have a Glock22, for some reason I really like the .40 cal. But whoever thinks its a Glock copy is nutz. Thanks for all the feedback.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 3:42:09 AM EDT
How can anyone not see that the XD is a Glock copy?! The frame, trigger safety, the grip?! It may be a fine pistol but the Glock has proven itself as the world's most durable handgun for over 20 years. Lets see, choice of the FBI, DEA, Cal bureau of Narcotics, NYPD, Burbank PD, ~50% of all LE in USA, Austrian Army, etc. etc. As far as blowing up in people's hands-I have no idea, but plenty of guns have blown up usually due to operator negligence-wrong ammo, lead bullets, etc etc. Beretta slides coming off during firing. Sigs-rails cracking off, frames bending after being dropped. 1911's-feed problems, extraction problems, ammo sensitivity. Be careful of the finger pointing when it comes to even great firearm designs.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 4:31:38 AM EDT
I have been packing an xd40 for almost 6 mo now. I love mine. It is a well made and well designed weapon. You have to give credit to the guy who takes the best parts of several weapons and build a better pistol.

Go over to www.hs2000talk.com lots of info there

Either I or my XD like the 155 and 165 40's better. I even have some cast lead 145 hand loads that are amazing!

I have 2 good reasons to buy a XD over a Glock.

Grip angle, the Glock grip does not fit me. The XD has the same angle as the 1911.

safety, cocked indicator, loaded indicator, trigger safety (ala Glock), grip safety (ala 1911), firing pin safety.

Take down. One easy to use lever.

Fully supported barrel.

Glock politics. I don't buy S&W or Glock.

The Glock is a great weapon, but don't fool yourself into thinking it is the end all be all forever!

Now Glock needs to step up to the plate...

Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:04:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lance1775:
How can anyone not see that the XD is a Glock copy?! The frame, trigger safety, the grip?! It may be a fine pistol but the Glock has proven itself as the world's most durable handgun for over 20 years. Lets see, choice of the FBI, DEA, Cal bureau of Narcotics, NYPD, Burbank PD, ~50% of all LE in USA, Austrian Army, etc. etc. As far as blowing up in people's hands-I have no idea, but plenty of guns have blown up usually due to operator negligence-wrong ammo, lead bullets, etc etc. Beretta slides coming off during firing. Sigs-rails cracking off, frames bending after being dropped. 1911's-feed problems, extraction problems, ammo sensitivity. Be careful of the finger pointing when it comes to even great firearm designs.



If all the police departments in the country jumped off a bridge, would you jump off too?

Don't make the mistake of thinking that everybody is choosing Glock solely on the basis of the quality of the pistol.

Glocks are OK but the XD takes the design to the next level, something Glock will never do for several reasons. Though I agree that deletion of the grip safety would be a good thing.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:21:11 AM EDT
Alright guys, this is my last response about the frigg'n XD. It may be a fine pistol, but you'll never convince me its better than a Glock. All these years shooters/writers have done rediculous torture tests on the Glock and have fired them over 300,000 w/o a malfunction. How are you going to overlook that all of a sudden?! And the previous statement of "if the police jump off a bridge.." What kind of crap does that mean?! We're talking about the selection of a first line defensive weapon. I think the FBI, DEA, etc etc know what they're doing. If the Glock isn't the end all be all pistol, I don't know what is. With a total of 33 parts it has so little to go wrong. We can go the other way and make a really advanced pistol with 100 parts like the HK P-7 or P-9, both great guns but all so complicated internally, thereby driving up the machine costs, overall costs, inducing the chances of parts breakage. I'm going to leave it at personal preference.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 11:40:05 AM EDT
Maybe you should read what Chuck Taylor has to say about the XD

http://www.chucktaylorasaa.com/SpringfieldXD9.html

Also, go over to hs2000talk.com and do a search on 11,000. You will find HS2000's and XD's with 11,000 and 16,000 rounds fired.

I am not downing Glock at all (other than some of their political business practices). I think you are closing your eyes to a very capable weapon, and there is very strong evidence that it is a beter weapon than what Glock is producing now.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 11:59:00 AM EDT
I believe the best of the Glocks are the originals....the 17 and the 19. It seems the .40's and .357's KB at an alarmingly high frequency. While some of it is due to ammo selection, it is also a result of several other factors...unsupported chambers, the Glock's ability to fire out of battery and the high pressures associated with such rounds. I haven't heard much mentioned about KB's in the .45 ACP versions, but there do seem to be more breakages associated with them than with the 9mm versions. So IMHO, the best of the Glocks are the guns that put them on the map.....that's the G17 and the G19. There seems to be far fewer problems with these guns than their other models.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 5:21:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lance1775:
Alright guys, this is my last response about the frigg'n XD. It may be a fine pistol, but you'll never convince me its better than a Glock. All these years shooters/writers have done rediculous torture tests on the Glock and have fired them over 300,000 w/o a malfunction. How are you going to overlook that all of a sudden?!



So you're saying that if the XD goes 300,001 rounds without a malfunction, it will meet your standards?



And the previous statement of "if the police jump off a bridge.." What kind of crap does that mean?!



Simply that just because everybody is doing something doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Politics and the bottom line have more to do with what agency gets issued what gun than whether the gun is necessarily superior.



We're talking about the selection of a first line defensive weapon. I think the FBI, DEA, etc etc know what they're doing. If the Glock isn't the end all be all pistol, I don't know what is.



That would probably be the 1911, which has proven itself in two world wars and several "police actions." There's nothing like battlefield use to shake the flaws out of a pistol. How many wars has the Glock seen?


With a total of 33 parts it has so little to go wrong.


I'm a big proponent of the KISS principle, and agree the Glock has a lot of qualities that make it superior to many other guns. However, even it could be improved on. Since Glock is reluctant to do so, I'm glad that the XD has stepped in to fill the gap. And let's not overlook the fact that Glock Perfection has had its share of difficulties, like the breaking frame rails to name just one.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 12:17:36 PM EDT
Dear Ken_Mays,

1. To answer your question, yes it has to shoot 300,001 rounds to gain my acceptance.

2. The agencies that selected the Glock had nothing to do with the reliability of the product, it was all an Austrian conspiracy.

3. The Glocks simplicity has nothing to do with why I never saw a broken one in the two years I worked in a gun shop and the eight years I've owned one firing thousands of rounds of .40 cal ammo through it. Where I've seen a Sig with split rails, countless 1911s that needed "work", and a myriad of other assorted tales.

4. Though the 1911 has served its country well, the Glock has served law enforcement just as well though not as long.

5. Your sense of debate is sophmoric if not immature, saying things like,"if the police jumped off a bridge..."
We're not talking about bridges or suicide, I recommend to stick to facts and hard data to retain professional your credibility.

Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:20:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lance1775:
Dear Ken_Mays,

1. To answer your question, yes it has to shoot 300,001 rounds to gain my acceptance.



Fair enough.



2. The agencies that selected the Glock had nothing to do with the reliability of the product, it was all an Austrian conspiracy.



You are certain that Glock has never engaged in the practice of selling guns to departments at or under cost in order to lowball the competition? It's my understanding that they do indeed have a pattern of doing exactly that.



3. The Glocks simplicity has nothing to do with why I never saw a broken one in the two years I worked in a gun shop and the eight years I've owned one firing thousands of rounds of .40 cal ammo through it. Where I've seen a Sig with split rails, countless 1911s that needed "work", and a myriad of other assorted tales.



All guns break. I haven't personally seen a SIG split rails, but I wouldn't deny that it happens. I have, however, had parts of my Glocks break under normal use. Your claim that you have never seen a broken Glock does not mean they don't exist.



4. Though the 1911 has served its country well, the Glock has served law enforcement just as well though not as long.



If you don't include the NYPD phase 3 malfunctions and the rails breaking during the DEA's "frisbee test," I would mostly agree with you.



5. Your sense of debate is sophmoric if not immature, saying things like,"if the police jumped off a bridge..."



While my style of argument may be flippant, the sentiment remains valid. Just because "the cops do it" isn't necessarily a compelling reason to do something.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:31:20 PM EDT
I have owned several Glocks over the years(17,36,27) and have liked none of them as much as my XD40. I have never had a poblem with any of them functionally. The XD feels better and has been more fun to shoot. I feel the same way as most XD owners, it is similar to the Glock only better. It all comes down to preference. I have talked to several people that sold the Glocks they owned after buying an XD. Most of the local LEO here carry Berretas. The few I know that carry Glocks on duty usually carry a different gun off duty. They like and trust the Glock but also trust as well as get more enjoyment out of other firearms. I carry a 1911.
There is some truth to the fact that some departments choose the Glock over other pistols due to cost. There are several good choices out there that are every bit as reliable as the Glock.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:29:23 AM EDT
GET BOTH!!!!




Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:40:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 9:43:26 AM EDT by gamesniper]
Here we go, somebody dissed Glocks and now we have a pissing and moaning contest. This is just like the Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge thing. Buy what you like, not what everyone else likes. Glocks are, without a doubt, one of the most accurate and reliable handguns on the market. That being said, I do not own one, even though they cost less than two other handguns I own, because I think that Glocks are the absolutely ugliest handgun on the market. I think the SA XDs fit into the same category. Does this matter? You bet your ass it does, to me. I truly enjoy the craftmanship and lines of a well made firearm, and Glock and XD don't fit in there. I'm the same way with rifle stocks. Synthetic may be more durable and certainly lighter than walnut, but they're uglier than hell (or a Glock) in my opinion. Give me walnut anytime, it just LOOKS better. Best thing is to satisfy yourself, not everyone else.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:59:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 10:04:06 AM EDT by skullworks]

Originally Posted By Lance1775:
How can anyone not see that the XD is a Glock copy?! The frame, trigger safety, the grip?!

I would agree that the look of the frame is very similar to that of the Glock, and I would also agree that the trigger safety is copy of the Glock design. However I would strongly disagree with the comment about the Glock grip as I find the XD grip to fit my hand much better. Also, it (the XD) has a slimmer feel to it as well as the same 11-degree angle that the 1911 has, which to many is the best grip angle possible for a handgun. Also, the XD triggerpull is much more distinct than the Glock, but this is more a question of familiarity than anything else. I had no problem getting used to the Glock trigger after basically using only Smith & Wesson revolvers in SAO.



It may be a fine pistol but the Glock has proven itself as the world's most durable handgun for over 20 years. Lets see, choice of the FBI, DEA, Cal bureau of Narcotics, NYPD, Burbank PD, ~50% of all LE in USA, Austrian Army, etc. etc.
Yes, the Glock has been around for that long, and it that time it has proven itself to be one of the most reliable handguns out there, especially in it's original 17/19 design. However, the XD has taken the best features of the Glock, added some features that customers have voiced as weak points in the Glock design, and rolled them all into one. The HS2000 has only been around for less than 5 years, and in that time it has gained a well deserved reputation for being an outstanding firearm.



As far as blowing up in people's hands-I have no idea, but plenty of guns have blown up usually due to operator negligence-wrong ammo, lead bullets, etc etc. Beretta slides coming off during firing. Sigs-rails cracking off, frames bending after being dropped. 1911's-feed problems, extraction problems, ammo sensitivity. Be careful of the finger pointing when it comes to even great firearm designs.
I'm not going to defend any of these firearms, other than saying that most of them have improved their designs as weaknesses have been discovered (Beretta redesigned the 92F to the 92FS after there were complaints about the slides coming off when using +P ammo.)

In the end I own both a Glock, and an XD. I own a Gen 2 Glock 19 which I have improved the trigger on, as well as outfitting it with ghostring nightsights. But I also own an XD-40 as the Glock 22/23 does not fit my hand nearly as well as the XD-40. Especially with those dumbass fingergrooves that I have yet to hear anyone agreeing with.

And here's my babies:

The Original


And the improvement
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