Even a "large" .380 like the Sig P230 is easier to carry than a "small" 9mm like the Glock 26. But the problem with the .380 is if the JHP bullets expand, then they seriouslty under penetrate. The Golden Saber expands beutifully, but only penetrates about 6"-8".

The only JHP that will expand, and still penetrate even close to 12" is the Hornady XTP.

A Flat nosed FMJ or even a Flat nosed lead bullet may be the best choice for those who carry a .380

Quoted: Let me ask you a question.......... Can you shoot accurately? Would you want to get hit by a .380 round from say no more that 20 feet? Anywhere in your body........ Especially center mass............

My turn.

Would you want to be hit by a soup can from say no more than 20 feet?

Would that question suffice as the essential criterion for what IS an effective ccw choice? I think not.

Unless some condition prevented you from accurately handling a compact pistol with a larger caliber of ammunition I cannot for the life of me understand why this would be a choice FOR SELF DEFENSE.

They can make a fair backup (so can a .357 snub) and they are prefferable to a sharp stick, but I would want all the leeway possible as far as stopping power goes for self defense.

As you move to smaller handguns, you lose alot of performance.  The 380 caliber is optimized for shorter barrels and yields around 950 fps with a 95 grain slug out of a barrel of similar lenght to a sig 230.  When you look at 45 ACP in so called sub-compact or micro firearms which feature a barrel lenght of 3-3.5" inches the 45 ACP begins to suffer a lot.  You achieve velocities in the neighborhood of 700 fps with a 230 slug.  I doubt that such a wide slug moving so slowly has much penetration...

My point is not that 380 is somehow better than 45 ACP, but rather that most calibers will give mediocre performance in such short barrels.  Both a 45 or a 380 will working in a small gun, but they will both work fairly poorly.  Plan for this and act accordingly...  If it fits in your pocket, it's no laser beam of death...

>>Unless some condition prevented you from accurately handling a compact pistol with a larger caliber of ammunition I cannot for the life of me understand why this would be a choice FOR SELF DEFENSE.<<
And others cannot for the life of them understand why someone would want to regularly burden themselves with a large caliber compact pistol when a small caliber lightweight weapon will accomplish the same goal in all but the rarest of situations.  If you are depending on the caliber of your gun determining whether you win or lose the fight you are already in trouble.  If you can't shoot well enough to stop the BG with a .380 or a .38 why think you will be able to shoot well enough to stop him with another caliber?

Quoted: >>Unless some condition prevented you from accurately handling a compact pistol with a larger caliber of ammunition I cannot for the life of me understand why this would be a choice FOR SELF DEFENSE.<< And others cannot for the life of them understand why someone would want to regularly burden themselves with a large caliber compact pistol when a small caliber lightweight weapon will accomplish the same goal in all but the rarest of situations.  If you are depending on the caliber of your gun determining whether you win or lose the fight you are already in trouble.  If you can't shoot well enough to stop the BG with a .380 or a .38 why think you will be able to shoot well enough to stop him with another caliber?

TRUE- I can carry my 9x18 Mak in a Sparks SSII with a spare mag easily...I'm only 5'7" 165# so BIG ain't gonna cut it unless I start wareing a DASHIKI but that pistol goes BANG every time and I can hit what I aim at every time-