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Posted: 6/7/2003 7:48:01 AM EDT
I've decided on the .45 (1911 Kimber) for carry and backup to my AR for home defence.

I'd like to hear some discussion on the differeces, advantages to using other bullets besides the old 230 grain hollow point.

Link Posted: 6/7/2003 9:03:16 AM EDT
From what I have seen, I'd stick with the 230 gr loads. They seem to have the best combination of penetration and expansion. Out of all of the loads I prefer the Winchester 230 gr Ranger and 230 gr Ranger +P the most. After that I like the Speer 230 gr Gold Dot. All 3 of these rounds consistently expand well, penetrate 12" or more in tissue/gel and do so through multiple layers of clothing or without.

Of course, no matter what round is chosen, make sure it shoots well in your particular gun. Bullet performance is important, but shot placement is critical.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 11:03:03 AM EDT
I stick to 230s since thats what the majority of the cheap practice ammo is loaded with. Same point of impact and feel as premium hollow-points in that caliber so Im doing the same thing everytime I shoot.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 11:36:01 AM EDT
What about the added velocity of the 200 and 185 grain bullets. There doesn't seem to be a significant loss in energy at target.

Don't mean to stir up a flame fest just curious.

Has there been anything done on the .45 like the ammo oracle is to the .223?
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 11:57:09 AM EDT
It's no accident the 1911 was chambered in .45cal with a 23O gr bullet at 850 fps. The Army had a proven track record with the .45 Colt ballistics that it wanted incorporated in the new Semi automatic pistol.

With out the advantages of ballistic jello and fancy computer computations of mass vs. velocity vs kinetic energy etc, etc, etc. the military knew from actual combat experience that a heavy large caliber bullet was combat effective.

The full size 1911 was designed to use 230 gr weight bullets. At .45 caliber if it expands great, if not it's still .45 caliber. So if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 12:12:03 PM EDT
There is an interesting new load from Aguila called the IQ www.aguilaammo.com/iq.htm that I'm going to try. It's supposed to be a screamer.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 12:21:17 PM EDT
want more poop from the .45? check out the .460 Rowland conversion. said to rival
a .44 mag and still function with .45 acp.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 2:10:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
I've decided on the .45 (1911 Kimber) for carry and backup to my AR for home defence.

I'd like to hear some discussion on the differeces, advantages to using other bullets besides the old 230 grain hollow point.



What barrel length?
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 6:02:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M199:

Originally Posted By bvmjethead:
I've decided on the .45 (1911 Kimber) for carry and backup to my AR for home defence.

I'd like to hear some discussion on the differeces, advantages to using other bullets besides the old 230 grain hollow point.



What barrel length?



It's the compact CDP II so I'm pretty sure it's a 3" bbl.

This is another reason I was looking into a lighter bullet. Simply the recoil out of a 3" bbl on a 230 grain might be a bit much for double taps.

I'm just looking for options/opinions.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 10:32:00 PM EDT
When I made the above recommendation, I was thinking in terms of a 4-5" barrel. I'll be honest, with the relatively slow velocities of .45 ACP, there's not going to be many loads, if any that will expand from a 3" barrel. But at worst you will still leave a .45 caliber hole in your target. Just find something with adequate penetration and accuracy. Even an FMJ in this barrel length may be appropriate.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 6:03:19 AM EDT
Federal make a 165gr. "Personal Defense" load.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:14:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By W-W:
Federal make a 165gr. "Personal Defense" load.



My recommendation was also for a 5 inch full size 1911.

I am currently using the above ammo in my Officers acp. It does allow for much quicker time back on target and recoil isn't quite as heavy.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:35:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:

Originally Posted By W-W:
Federal make a 165gr. "Personal Defense" load.



My recommendation was also for a 5 inch full size 1911.

I am currently using the above ammo in my Officers acp. It does allow for much quicker time back on target and recoil isn't quite as heavy.



I'm planning on trying it later today in my new Springfield UltraCompact along w/some 230gr. and Hornady 230 +P to check the pistols reliability.

If I get to the range I'll report back.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:38:12 AM EDT
A 185gr. load moving around 900 fps will get the job done. That would have to be a real 1000fps + out of a 5 incher. It will have the most potential for expansion and still penetrate. I donn't buy factory ammo but I've had luck with XTP and Gold Dot components, with Gold Dots opening more. XTP's handle sheet steel better. If you want positive expansion an unjacketed lead HP is your best bet, but otherwise stick with the above. 230's struggle in the high 600 to 750 fps range out of 3 inchers. They are still effective but wonn't really expand well if at all; with 230's all lead is your best bet. Any of these loads will go through sheet steel 95% of the time except the all lead. Going down to a 165gr. would be interesting if you could keep up the velocity. The lighter rounds do "pound" your hand less but follow ups are still just as difficult. 3 inchers can be very picky about what ammo they are accurate with. This is where being a handloader becomes benficial in tayloring a load to a pistol.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 7:40:53 PM EDT
I prefer the 230 gr Rager T +p or the 200 gr.Gold Dot +p but this is out of a G30 which expands well.My suggestion for the 3" barrel would be the Corbon Powerball in 165 gr or the Federal EFMJ also 165 gr.They say they will expand at lower velocities and the feed issue is resolved.Ammolab is supposed to have some tests forthcoming. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:02:12 PM EDT
Wasn't the 1911 designed around a 200gr bullet?
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:08:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/8/2003 8:10:59 PM EDT by DaveT]
"It's the compact CDP II so I'm pretty sure it's a 3" bbl."

Excuse me guys, but while you're all talking about 3" barrels, the man's gun has a 4" barrel.

I'm always amaized that for 70 some years the 45 ACP made it's reputation as a fight stopping cartride with ball ammo. Now, for what ever reason if you don't have +P Magic Bullets you are defenseless.

And just to muddy the water a little more, John Moses Browning originally designed the 45 ACP cartridge around a 200g bullet at 900 fps. But what did he know!!!!!!

PS: Jetlag posted while I was typing. Yes, the original was 200g as stated above.
Link Posted: 6/8/2003 8:21:28 PM EDT
No, It's not the compact.

It's the Ultra and it has a 3" bbl.

I know I said it was the compact but that was my error. It's the Ultra.

I think I'll delete this thread and start over again seeing how I've completely screwed it up.

Sorry guy's I've been pretty sick lately and on some weird med's........
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:00:22 AM EDT
No sweat Bvmjethead. I doubt any of the rest of us here are perfect either! Hehe. Good luck in your search for the best load in your pistol.

-Charging Handle
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 1:25:38 AM EDT

And just to muddy the water a little more, John Moses Browning originally designed the 45 ACP cartridge around a 200g bullet at 900 fps. But what did he know!!!!!!



While you are correct, what I said was....

It's no accident the 1911 was chambered in .45cal with a 23O gr bullet at 850 fps. The Army had a proven track record with the .45 Colt ballistics that it wanted incorporated in the new Semi automatic pistol.

Link Posted: 6/9/2003 3:13:22 PM EDT
I'm going to try that Aquila 117gr stuff. I just ordered from AIM in my Springfield UltraCompact.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 3:49:16 PM EDT
W-W,

Did you try out the Sprinfield yet and if so how did it go.

Gary
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 3:57:25 PM EDT
Not yet...Tomorrow Eve I hope. I have about 200 rounds of Federal 185gr. and Hornady 230 gr +P which should prove to be interesting from that lil gun!
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 7:51:53 PM EDT
I use the Federal 165gr Hydra-Shoks. The 165gr expands more fully than the 230gr. Has more velocity and energy and the 165's will fragment to a degree, which I like.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 8:12:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jetlag:
Wasn't the 1911 designed around a 200gr bullet?



Yep. Army wanted heavier and slower.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 8:14:37 PM EDT
230 gr .45acp = bowling ball @ 850 fps.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 8:39:54 PM EDT
for a backup home-defense gun, I'd go with the longest slide you can. five or six incher. get it converted to 45 Super. it's a lot more hard-hitting than .45ACP.

however, with a 3" barrel I'd probably go at around 200gr because it's not going to be shooting fast no matter what, and you probably want the bigger bullet in that case. But I probably wouldn't go so high as 230gr because they might be going too slow.

I guess just look at some velocity/energy level charts for a 3" barrel, try out a few different weight/load combinations at the range, and see what you like best.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:00:17 PM EDT
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