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Posted: 12/12/2002 5:27:17 PM EDT
I have a few .45 Black Talons left. Can I still buy them, and if not what would be recommended replacements. I just got my CCW and don't want to carry old left over ammo.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 5:29:49 PM EDT
you wanna sell them?

How much?

You can still find black talons around..usually priced outrageously..many times they aren't even black talons..
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 5:29:58 PM EDT
230 gr. Hydra-shoks are the standard.

I have a couple of boxes of .45 acp Talons that I bought on the tale end of that deal.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 5:32:10 PM EDT
You can get the black talons at the gun show here in AZ. They are sold as SXT ranger ammo.

It's the exact same claw bullet in a non-nickel plated casing.

I have a box of those in the closet too!
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 7:17:43 PM EDT
I only have a couple of magazines of Black Talons, not enough to worry about selling them. I just figured if they where about 5-7 years old they may not be reliable? I didn't want to waste them at some cheap paper target(go figure) but don't want to trust my life on them either. It's a joke when you don't want to use your "special ammo" because you can't replace it. I bet I've shot thousands of miltary rounds that where way older than me. But maybe I'm worrying about these Black Talons for nothing, and just should load'em anyway.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 8:03:17 PM EDT
You can get Winchester Ranger ammo. It is LEGAL, however, Winchester does not want the public to have it. Can usually be found at gun shows.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 8:07:30 PM EDT
MisterGreens and markm, I'll check out the Ranger and Hydra shoks.
Link Posted: 12/12/2002 8:13:59 PM EDT
I just noticed that a bunch of people are reading this post. Is "Black Talon" a dirty word? Do I need to wash my mouth out with soap or something?
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 4:29:42 AM EDT
Not a dirty word, but I believe some states actually forbid "civilian" possession of the stuff. Long story if you don't already know it. Pure BS, but when W/W came out with it quite a few of us told them the name was a mistake...they should'a made it silver and called it "White Lilly" and the liberals would have loved it! They were victims of their own PR campaign.
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 5:55:04 AM EDT
They stopped making the Talons, and started making the XTP's. The bullet went from 6 segments to 8. Not a great deal of difference.
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 11:05:30 AM EDT
Tiger:
Perhaps you mean SXTs (XTPs are from Hornady)...

As has been said elsewhere, SXT means Same eXact Thing as the Black Talons, just a different name (and color)...
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 2:58:44 PM EDT

SFC Rick

I've heard from other members that you can buy them from OMB police supply but I have never tried. Maybe you can give it a try and let us know if it was a go or not.

catalog.google.com/catalogs?dq=&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&issue=10599&catpage=cover&zoom=3

BKVic
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 6:25:32 PM EDT
Thanks BKVic,

I can buy since I'm known at all the area Sheriff Departments and PD's. I have taught a few Swat team classes in the past, but have not been active for awhile. I'll check OMB out.
Link Posted: 12/13/2002 7:32:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2002 7:36:00 PM EDT by BKVic]
SFC Rick

From what other members have said OMB will sell the Winchester police only ammo to us lowly ordinay citizens, not just to the police.
I see from your signature line that you were a tanker in the ARMY. I went in as a 19E in 1988 and tranitioned to 19K when the gulf war was building. They were getting as many people switched over to 19K as possible and I was sent to TC school to get it done, so when I finished I was a TC certified Spec4. Some times I really miss it, even though it was a small part of my life year wise I was really proud to be a M1 tanker.

BKVic
Link Posted: 12/14/2002 8:10:44 AM EDT
BKVic,

What a blast I had too being a Tanker! I even volunteered for that Tank Commanders course in Idaho. It was the Top Gun school of armor, you train with the best tankers from around the world. I graduated with the diploma! "Gunner", Sabot, tank,up! "FIRE", "ON THE WAY", TARGET TARGET! Jezz talk about getting my blood flowing.

If you were an Officer and you just didn't score well enough to get the Diploma, your career was over in armor. You could only get the certificate of attendance then, not the diploma.

Anyway, I'll check OMB, "out".
Link Posted: 12/15/2002 11:25:30 PM EDT
I have some original Black Talons in .40S&W and .357MAG. It is good defense ammo but not the ultimate end-all be-all some people tout. I remember reading an ammo test quite a few years ago where the lowly PMC Starfire outperformed Black Talons, yet it sells for $7-$9 a box.

I consider Black Talons to be collectible because of the controversy surrounding Winchester's marketing and subsequent removal from the market. Anyone remember Patrick Moynihan's diatribe about the evil flesh-cutting saw blades? Collectible, like baseball cards, not because of any spectacular performance.

If your Black Talons are only 5-7 years old, I'd have no qualms about carrying them and using them for defense. Hydra-Shoks are a good choice. Remington 230gr Golden Sabers also had good penetration and expansion in FBI tests.
Link Posted: 12/15/2002 11:28:13 PM EDT
Almost forgot, if you're able to place an order from OMB, let me know. I have heard they won't sell LE ammo to the general public. That's what they told one person on this board. Would like to get a definitive answer on this. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/16/2002 6:16:53 AM EDT
A guy I know has tested about all the ammo available for .45acp, and according to his tests, the 230gr Black Talon failed miserably, when compared to the other ammo available.

I have some BT's, but I carry Speer Gold Dot 185's, I don't care for the Hydra Shocks, although the Federal Tactical ain't bad. Golden Sabres appear to penetrate windshields the best.


Ammo is much like guns, everyone likes one type over another for his/her own reasons.

dave
Link Posted: 12/16/2002 7:23:26 AM EDT
I put some "talons" away the day before they "yanked' them.
Some are still sealed in an ammo box, (9MM & .45) some were left out, still stored under good conditions.
I had a misfire in one .45 talon (dead primer) which shakes my confidence in the rest of 'em.
I would say, move on, because you have no way of knowing how they were really stored through the years, unless you just collect cartidges for display, IMO.
I saved the original advertising insert from Winchester, to go along with my stash.
Link Posted: 12/16/2002 4:50:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2002 4:57:19 PM EDT by 82ndAbn]
I have personally seen the effects of a 9mm Black Talon round. Its quite horrific.

There may be some ammo out there that can produce higher devastation, but believe me, do not discount the destructional capabilities of Black Talon.

That is one unforgiving piece of ordnance.



edited: Imagine 360 degrees of extremely well distributed, razor thin, pieces of fragmentation throughout the body.

Picture a relatively center-mass shot with shrapnel in the upper thigh, bladder, stomach, aorta, lungs, heart (sac), and neck.

Not much chance for survival.
Link Posted: 12/16/2002 5:16:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SFC_Rick:
I have a few .45 Black Talons left. Can I still buy them, and if not what would be recommended replacements. I just got my CCW and don't want to carry old left over ammo.




Speer gold dot, is the nastiest stuff i have ever tested. Yeah even nastier than black talons, golden sabers, win premiun, geco, corbon, Hydrashocks, etc etc.
Just a thought.

HUNTER.
Link Posted: 12/17/2002 4:32:21 PM EDT
i have a box of 147gr. 9mm black talons that my brother gave me when he sold his pistol.
they are probably 7-8 years old?
how long can you keep ammo at room temp.
and still be certain it's reliable?
should i just save them or sell them?
thanks
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 4:53:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zepp:
i have a box of 147gr. 9mm black talons that my brother gave me when he sold his pistol.
they are probably 7-8 years old?
how long can you keep ammo at room temp.
and still be certain it's reliable?
should i just save them or sell them?
thanks


The only way I found out I had a dud was to fire a few.
If the few you try work, you may want to seal the rest. If it's bullet design you are after, I suppose you could "pull 'em" and reload them in the event of misfire.
Link Posted: 12/18/2002 7:38:18 PM EDT
I used to carry the BT, now the SXT's (and I'm PD). I still like the Golden Sabers, which is available to everyone. Hay, that almost rhymes!

Art in KY
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