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Posted: 3/20/2006 12:06:44 AM EDT
Hello all,


I was just watching the Discovery channel and saw the tail end of a documentary on Green Berets in Afgahnistan and was wondering what ODA's are carrying as sidearms. I know Delta, CAG or whatever else there called these days, and Marine Force Recon carry custom M-1911A1's. I was told the Green Berets can only carry M-9's or SOCOM MK-23's and thats it. On the other hand I was told they can carry Sig M-11's, H&K USP .45 auto's, and M-1911A1's. I can't find a good answer on this. Can anyone shed a little light on this or point me in the right direction. Thanks guys!

Pete out
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:00:02 AM EDT
Check you IM,

ODAs by MTOE have the M9.

CD
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:26:09 AM EDT
Nope, green berets can choose between a M9 or an 1911. At least recently in Iraq.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:15:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 9:18:49 AM EDT by Green0]
The team members of a 10thgroup team I knew were all carrying M9's with Brigadier slides and night sights.

The guys from fifth group were a mixed bag of M9's and 1911's ranging from stock 1911A1's from WWII/Korea/vietnam to moderately customized guns.

One soldier was carrying a 1911A1 with Ed Brown drop in match barrel, grip safety, S&A mag well, Ed Brown Ambi-safety and 10rd stainless magazines. They got replacement sight sets from somewhere and he was annoyed that the front was tritium but the rear not.

he mentioned their armorer would modify his 1911 for parts and beer.

They get to choose which handgun they want to carry but it seems most carry M9's. That's probably a combination of lighter wieght, greater reliability, better accuracy, lighter recoil, and higher magazine capacity. The SF magazines are Beretta factory, not checkmate mags like half the regular army mags.

I think the M9 is the right choice given that the 1911's they have access to are poorly fitted and most aren't very accurate or reliable. Ammunition is more availible in 9mm as well, so they get more range time with the M9s. [and I'm a 1911 fan so that isn't a biased opinion.]
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:22:10 AM EDT
Mostly I see the Army SF guys with the M9. I have also seen some with 1911s and a few with GLOCK 9mms.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:30:47 PM EDT
According to some people that live in fayetteville, the M9 is still the primary pistol in use by SF. Others get issued 2 1911s, a Glock 19, and train with other stuff; but the M9 is still in wide-spread use.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:36:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By das028:
Nope, green berets can choose between a M9 or an 1911. At least recently in Iraq.



Headgear is being armed now?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:57:19 PM EDT
lol
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:20:33 PM EDT
Thanks for the info guys. This is the first time I have heard of S.F. carrying Glock 19's Has anyone have any pics of Glocks or M-1911A1's used by S.F. in the sand box? Thank you again.

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:21:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Check you IM,

ODAs by MTOE have the M9.

CD

Thanks Combat Diver.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:26:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death2usama:
Thanks for the info guys. This is the first time I have heard of S.F. carrying Glock 19's Has anyone have any pics of Glocks or M-1911A1's used by S.F. in the sand box? Thank you again.




Don't forget that Black side and White side SF are a bit different...
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:40:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By Death2usama:
Thanks for the info guys. This is the first time I have heard of S.F. carrying Glock 19's Has anyone have any pics of Glocks or M-1911A1's used by S.F. in the sand box? Thank you again.




Don't forget that Black side and White side SF are a bit different...



Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:05:57 PM EDT
Classified and unclassified SF units. Black is classified, white is unclassified.

At least one unit, Assymetrical Warfare Group (whatever that is) uses Glock 19s. Delta/CAG has reportedly always used 1911s, primarily.

Personally I don't give a rip what they use, because I am not in them. However, I still have picked up some trivia.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:11:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death2usama:
Thanks for the info guys. This is the first time I have heard of S.F. carrying Glock 19's Has anyone have any pics of Glocks or M-1911A1's used by S.F. in the sand box? Thank you again.




Iraqi Police/ Security Forces are issued Glock 19s, this might be the reason why SF might be getting them. For the same reason you sometimes see the occaisonal AK in the hands of an SF guy.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 9:06:30 PM EDT
well, i know that i saw quite a few "military" type guys running around with glocks up in northern iraq. no, i know you're thinking contractors, theres a big diff, and you can tell.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:13:23 PM EDT
I believe Delta has been using 19s for a number of years in addition to the 1911. The 19 is certainly less upkeep intensive than the 1911
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 10:55:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
I believe Delta has been using 19s for a number of years in addition to the 1911. The 19 is certainly less upkeep intensive than the 1911


Has anyone seen pics or first hand of this?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 11:35:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death2usama:

Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR:
I believe Delta has been using 19s for a number of years in addition to the 1911. The 19 is certainly less upkeep intensive than the 1911


Has anyone seen pics or first hand of this?



I havent seen any pictures of it. I got my info from Hackathorn and a few other people.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:00:52 AM EDT
Current issue M9

Pistol in leg holster is a GI M1911A1 along with a Persian Mauser 98 on ground and MP44 in hand being fired


CD
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:09:42 AM EDT
If it was the same special I saw on "green berets", at least one of them was carrying a Sig. I automatically thought that the narrator was told to call them green berets, instead of seals to help keem usable Op-Sec information to a minimum. The sig was a dead tip-off of a seal or a USAF PJ.
Any one else see this?
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:46:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Current issue M9
www.hunt101.com/img/336481.JPG
Pistol in leg holster is a GI M1911A1 along with a Persian Mauser 98 on ground and MP44 in hand being fired
www.hunt101.com/img/388088.JPG

CD


WOW!!! An MP-44!!! Thank you for the cool pic's.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:48:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TMIX:
If it was the same special I saw on "green berets", at least one of them was carrying a Sig. I automatically thought that the narrator was told to call them green berets, instead of seals to help keem usable Op-Sec information to a minimum. The sig was a dead tip-off of a seal or a USAF PJ.
Any one else see this?


I wish I did. I think Army S.F. can use Sig M-11's. But the only Spec-Op unit that I know of that uses Sig's are the Teams.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 4:51:52 AM EDT
Hey Combat Diver, which team were you in? Also, by your name, did you go to the combat diver school in F.L.?
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:00:47 AM EDT
I played Opfor to some guys from the SF units in Utah (19th SF?) when my guard unit was up there for the Olympics. All the SF guys we talked to had M11s (Sigs).
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:06:46 AM EDT
I have a video showing SFOD doing speed drills with 1911's. They are marginally customized w/ what I believe are 10 rnd mags.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 5:26:56 AM EDT
Yes, I graduated there in 85' and spent 15 years on dive status. Only been in two Groups in the last 20+ yrs and several ODAs.

CD
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:21:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Current issue M9
www.hunt101.com/img/336481.JPG
Pistol in leg holster is a GI M1911A1 along with a Persian Mauser 98 on ground and MP44 in hand being fired
www.hunt101.com/img/388088.JPG

CD



Awesome pics.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:47:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 8:11:40 AM EDT by Adam_White]

Originally Posted By TMIX:
If it was the same special I saw on "green berets", at least one of them was carrying a Sig. I automatically thought that the narrator was told to call them green berets, instead of seals to help keem usable Op-Sec information to a minimum. The sig was a dead tip-off of a seal or a USAF PJ.
Any one else see this?



I think either you or your brother rented a booth at the last gunshow I went to.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 7:53:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 7:54:06 AM EDT by 21BoomCBTENGR]
Like i said Death2, i SAW plenty of those guys wearing glocks, a few 1911s, and some berettas overseas. and like my buddies and i always joked, "you know they're delta when they shoot someone with a sniper rifle and giggle"
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:58:06 AM EDT
I know for a fact that back in 2004 at least one Special Forces Group in Iraq bought and used a few USP45s bought on government credit card. When they left the pistols had to stay in country as all things purchased in-country. Of course the pistols went to the Division staff primaries for processing awards and such for the SF Team. I also saw members of a different team with Berettas and SIGs.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 11:19:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 21BoomCBTENGR:
Like i said Death2, i SAW plenty of those guys wearing glocks, a few 1911s, and some berettas overseas. and like my buddies and i always joked, "you know they're delta when they shoot someone with a sniper rifle and giggle"



Link Posted: 3/22/2006 11:21:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Diver:
Yes, I graduated there in 85' and spent 15 years on dive status. Only been in two Groups in the last 20+ yrs and several ODAs.

CD



My father served with S.F. in the early 1960's. I think he did a stint in Nam in that time period. I wish I knew more about him, but he passed away when I was seven.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 11:42:45 AM EDT
New sig.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 12:28:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
New sig.


Link Posted: 3/22/2006 12:33:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Death2usama:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
New sig.






Read his signature line
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 4:29:17 PM EDT
i feel honored triburst h,
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 4:41:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 21BoomCBTENGR:
i feel honored triburst , but yeah, i was stationed up in Mosul in 2004, and my buddies and i would go up on the roof of saddams palaces and thered be teams of nasty men just overwatching the city. we'd chat and joke and all of a sudden ::BANG:: "hehehehehe he fell over his buddy, you shoulda seen their faces!" or something like that... just different kinda guys



Seems like a misuse of tier 1 assets. Why would you assume they weren't regular SF-types?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:14:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 10:21:01 PM EDT by 21BoomCBTENGR]
because this is what they did in their off-time, and the SF guys were mostly at the local ICDC (iraqi national guard) compound that my unit built for them, training them, and the spec for guys actually could tell you they were spec for, the D boys would just claim to be interested parties or silly shit like that. other than that i dont really want to get into operations that we witnessed with either the d boys or the spec for types, not for national security reasons, but because they're very large bad men who'd probably read this page and could hurt me. i was just a lowly dumbass PFC combat engineer, but in that type of area, you get to rub shoulders with all sorts of people.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:36:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 12:48:25 PM EDT by txgp17]

Originally Posted By Death2usama:
Has anyone seen pics or first hand of this?

Surely you don't mean pics of the Delta Force Operators right?
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