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Posted: 3/18/2006 3:37:35 PM EDT
So I hear the Sig 229 comes in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .357 SIG.

I love how cheap 9mm ammo is, but I'm prolly going to use this gun for carry, if it passes my field tests, and my life is worth more than any price on a box of ammo, as in I'll pay more if there is good reason too. I have never had a handgun chambered in .40 S&W or .357 SIG, and haven't heard a whole lot about these calibers, other than a few people thinking .40 S&W has harsh recoil in a polymer pistol, which is laughable to me (how is ANY recoil too harsh?), and doesn't apply anyways since the Sig 229 is not polymer framed.

What caliber do you think I should get? What would you get if it was you, instead of me?

And a couple bonus off the topic questions:
Would you even consider buying a Sig 229??? I saw one chambered in .40 and held it, and looked down the sights, didn't get to shoot, the gunstore wouldn't let me have a loaded mag...
Would you get the night sights, or standard sights (I've heard some people do not like the night sights offered on these) The handgun seemed real nice to me...

Thanks!
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 3:58:04 PM EDT
Definitely get night sights if it is a carry pistol. There are many scenarios where they will come in handy, and none where they would be a hindrance.

As for caliber, I don't see the point of .357 Sig or .40 S&W. 9mm or .45 ACP for me, and since the 229 doesn't come in .45 ACP, that sort of narrows it down.

Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:06:37 PM EDT
I wouldn't get it in 9mm. Cheap to practice with, but like you said, if you're carrying, shoot the biggest/strongest you can handle.

The .357 Sig is pretty much supposed to replicate the .357 magnum as far as stopping/dropping power goes, but I'm not sure if it's quite there. It is very impressive, though, as far as ballistics are concerned.

However, around my town, pretty much two of the most expensive fuckin rounds to buy/practice with are the .357 Sig and the 10mm. I own a 10mm, and can tell you it hurts spending $40 and only gettin 100 rounds to practice with. Not to mention that with 10mm, most shit you find in stores don't take full advantage of its versatility and you're pretty much forced to get the "good shit" online, which is about $50 for a box of 50 if you factor in shipping. I can only imagine it's a similar situation with the .357 sig, but I'm not positive on this.

I'm not a giant fan of .40, but I don't hate it either and I'd take it over 9mm in a carry piece any day. .40's also a lot cheaper, and you'll have a much better chance of hitting something that matters if you can practice with what you carry once in a while.

I dunno, I personally would get the .357 sig... but then, I don't ever plan on needing it beyond ten yards, and will admit that I might be fucked if a situation that demanded some accuracy from a distance arose.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:08:31 PM EDT
Anything made by SIG, HK, Beretta, and a few more you can bet are nice guns.
SIG Saur makes and produces what many people would consider the finest production handguns on the market. All it takes is one look at the organizations and armies across the world who depend on SIG made firearms. Navy SEALS and the US Army carry SIGs. I would most certainly consider a SIG if I had the money.

My personal experience with SIGs have been limited to the 226 and the 229, just got lucky that I have fired the model you are questioning about.

While others may disagree, I agree completely that my life is worth way more than any price of ammunition. I would gladly pay more if I felt the need too. However what one must understand with regards to handgun ammunition is that the bullets do not fragment. The large "shock wave" that can be seen in ballistics gel is called a Temporary Wound Cavity. The temporary wound cavity only affects two organs, the liver and brain. All other organs have enough elasticity to stretch along with the cavity, and then come right back to normal conditions after the cavity dissipates. Energy is also frequently misunderstood, as it is impossible for someone to be knocked down or go flying backwards from the force of a bullet.
So how does a bullet kill someone?

A defensive load, is usually a hollow point. This round will mushroom and develop what look like flower petals under optimal conditions. Sometimes the hollow point can become plugged with material and will fail to expand. As the bullet enters the body, it simply tears up the tissue it comes into contact with. Naturally a larger caliber bullet will destroy more tissue. In order to stop someone a bullet must hit the brain, or sever the spinal chord. A solid hit with any pistol round in those areas with cause immediate incapacitation. A person can still function for up to 15 seconds if their heart is destroyed. A bullet isn't going to knock someone backwards and it certainly won’t instantly stop them if there are not hit correctly.

I am getting at the two biggest factors in selecting a good caliber for defensive use. Get the largest caliber that you can consistently shoot well with. A .357 SIG round is a 9mm round, so the hole will be just as large as the 9mm. With the .357 SIG you get increased penetration against barriers, but that is also a doubled edge sword as increased penetration could lead to the injury of innocent bystanders. A .40 S&W (10mm sized) is larger by 1mm. This round is commonly used by law enforcement agencies who need a pistol round that has enough power to penetrate and reach the vital organs of a human target, but still keep recoil to a minimal level. Of your two choices the .40 S&W would be better due to the fact that the wound cavity is larger in the .40 S&W and both have enough energy to reach the vital organs of a human.

Night sights are must if you are going to use this weapon for defensive use. Many encounters happen in low light and at night, night sights are a must for any defensive pistol. Remember, your life has no price.
Additionally I would recommend Crimson Trace Laser Grips after you have mastered your 229. They project a red dot at the target, which allows you to see where you weapon is pointed. You can also shoot from less that ideal positions, impossible with iron sights. Make sure you master your iron sights before you even consider the laser grips, as lasers do not guide a bullet to the target, they simply tell you where you muzzle is pointing (When properly aligned using an Allen wrench).
This is just my advice, hell I’m only 17, and I certainly do not know everything. Good luck!
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:16:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Definitely get night sights if it is a carry pistol. There are many scenarios where they will come in handy, and none where they would be a hindrance.

As for caliber, I don't see the point of .357 Sig or .40 S&W. 9mm or .45 ACP for me, and since the 229 doesn't come in .45 ACP, that sort of narrows it down.




Remember the Miami Shootout? That was the event that elventually led to the adoption of the .40 S&W.
If the perp had not been shot with 9mm the guy would have died much, much, much sooner and saved the lives of many officers. This is an excellent example of why the extra energy is need to penetrate.
PICTURE
www.thegunzone.com/platt-shot.html

Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:18:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 4:19:02 PM EDT by ALPHAGHOST]

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Definitely get night sights if it is a carry pistol. There are many scenarios where they will come in handy, and none where they would be a hindrance.

As for caliber, I don't see the point of .357 Sig or .40 S&W. 9mm or .45 ACP for me, and since the 229 doesn't come in .45 ACP, that sort of narrows it down.




+1

if not, i am more of a .357sig fan
oh, if i want a .40 hole, i'll take my 10mm thanks!
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:42:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 4:51:41 PM EDT by Tomislav]

Originally Posted By Burkey:
Remember the Miami Shootout? That was the event that elventually led to the adoption of the .40 S&W.
If the perp had not been shot with 9mm the guy would have died much, much, much sooner and saved the lives of many officers. This is an excellent example of why the extra energy is need to penetrate.



The Miami Shootout led to the introduction of the ballistic gelatin standads, and through that, a change in bullet design and construction. The failure at Miami was of a specific load in a specific situation, not of any caliber.

ANY round that achieves the desired ~12" of penetration in calibrated ballistic gelatin is good to go for defensive use. Add the 9mm advantages of being able to carry more rounds, and with a good 147gr load, to have a more controlable round than your typical .40, and 9mm advantages are clear, IMO.

Besides, we are all familiar with this .40 S&W shooting, which failed to lead to a one-shot-stop.

As for .357 Sig, that is just a goofy round. 9mm Magnum, with all of the increased uncontrability that implies, with no practical benefits. Categorize it with .45 GAP.

9mm has killed more folks that .40 S&W and .357 Sig combined can ever dream of. 9mm (along with .45ACP) is the caliber of choice for various pros around the world; it seems that when they don't get a choice, as with too many PDs, then they are saddled with .40 S&W.

ETA: Training is going to matter a helluva lot more than any caliber choice. Lots and lots of time at the range.

And as Alphaghost said, if you want a 10mm Short, just man up and get a proper 10mm.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 5:02:51 PM EDT
The Sig P229 is a nice gun and my favorite so I don't think you can go wrong with that choice. The caliber is meaningless so choose whatever you think you can shoot best. Where you hit will matter, the size of the hole (+/- 1mm) won't make any real difference. All three will penetrate sufficently, although some think the .40 will over penetrate with certain types of ammo. If you want the gun for range use as well I would recommend the less expensive route.

There's a video posted over on Glock talk (CCW section I believe) of a ccw shooting where the prep was shot three times with a .40 and is now serving his prison time (video of a robbery where the clerk pulls his gun and shoots the robber). It will give you an idea of how fast things go down and why it matters.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 5:09:13 PM EDT
If I can't get a .45ACP then 9mm is my next choice.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 5:22:34 PM EDT
If you want a 9mm get a 228.

If you want a 229, get a barrel in the other caliber, and you have both .357 Sig and .40 S&W.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 5:27:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 5:28:27 PM EDT by chris157c]
Thanks guys!

I too have limited myself mostly to 9mm and .45ACP, but mostly because I like 1911's and M9's. I initially wanted a 9mm or a .45, but I like the looks of the 229 and it's not made in .45, and thought maybe these other rounds would be worth looking into. IMO, you have proved me wrong, and brought me to my original thought, get the 9mm.

Thanks for the reassurance!!!
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 5:27:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSheppard:
If I can't get a .45ACP then 9mm is my next choice.



I really want t avoid a caliber arguement here but why do you say this? There are also alot of people who agree with you. IMO, people here seem to stick with common rounds that have been around for 50+ years. What gives? If there is a better round out there use it. Your life is worth more than a crate of ammo to practice with.
The only thing that matters with a pistol wound is the size of the hole. .40 S&W is larger therefore the round destroys more tissue than the 9mm. .45 ACP is larger than the .40 S&W therefore it destroys more tissue. Why would you want to destroy less tissue?

BTW, .22 LR has killed the most people, but it isn't being touted as the best round.
9mm will work, but there are better options assuming you can handle the recoil and can properly place the shots.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 5:37:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:
...What gives? If there is a better round out there use it.



Therein lies the trick: Prove to me that .40 S&W is undeniably a better round, and I'll convert like a Californian to Hare Krishna. Until then, I see .40 S&W (or .357 Sig or .45 GAP) as rounds with some potential strong points, but also some definite weak points. Nothing to make me want to switch from 9mm/.45 ACP/.357 Magnum.



The only thing that matters with a pistol wound is the size of the hole. .40 S&W is larger therefore the round destroys more tissue than the 9mm. .45 ACP is larger than the .40 S&W therefore it destroys more tissue. Why would you want to destroy less tissue?



The difference between 9mm and .40, as you pointed out earlier, is minimal. Not to mention, a 9mm will generally be able to pack a few extra rounds in a given platform. (15 9mm vs. 13 .40 in a USP, for example.)



BTW, .22 LR has killed the most people, but it isn't being touted as the best round.



I would guess that 9mm has killed more than .22 LR, but I haven't seen any figures to point either way.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 5:42:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chris157c:
Thanks guys!

I too have limited myself mostly to 9mm and .45ACP, but mostly because I like 1911's and M9's. I initially wanted a 9mm or a .45, but I like the looks of the 229 and it's not made in .45, and thought maybe these other rounds would be worth looking into. IMO, you have proved me wrong, and brought me to my original thought, get the 9mm.

Thanks for the reassurance!!!



I picked up a 229 in 9mm recently. I really wanted a 9mm 228 but they aren't making them anymore. I've been happy with the 229 in 9mm, though I wished it was lighter like the 228 was. Other than that, it's been a great gun.

If you get a 9mm one, buy some Mecgar magazines for it. They work great, and allow 15 rounds with no additional magazine length added, as the follower is a redesign that is shorter.



Link Posted: 3/18/2006 9:01:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 9:07:13 PM EDT by ep_shooter]
The FBI does keep detail statistics on what weapons were used to kill LEOs. Over the last ten years (1995-2004) 396 officers have been killed by handguns. Of the 396, 116 were killed by 9mm, followed by 48 killed with .38, 44 killed with .40 and 43 killed with .45. There were also 34 officers killed with the .380 auto. I think the real lesson here is to not underestimate your opponent because he has a "smaller" gun. Any gun can be lethal. If your interested in further information check the link below. The data I'm referring to is in Table 34.

www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2004/section1felonkilled.htm
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 9:15:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 9:35:57 AM EDT by JohnTheTexican]

Originally Posted By chris157c:
What would you get if it was you, instead of me?



I got both (it came with a .40S&W and a .357SIG barrels). I won't pretend to know which, if either, is more evvective, but the .40 tends to be cheaper. Either way, I don't find the recoil unpleasant.

If you buy a .40, all it takes to convert it to .357 is a different barrel, which you should be able to pick up for around a hundred bucks.

I was sufficiently satisfied with my P229 that I bought a second one. I haven't sued SIGs nightsights, so I don't have anything to say about that, but I do have Crimson Trace Laser Grips on both of my P229s, and I think they're the cat's ass.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 10:18:37 PM EDT
Have you looked at the P239, it is thinner and seems lighter than the P229. Also, I know you didnt want to start a war on calibers but my main carry piece most of the time is a Glock 19. If the first round doesnt stop the perp. I've got 17more rounds with 1 in the chamber and 17 in the magazine with the +2 extension.

As mentioned before, shot placement is the decisive factor in stop the perpetrator. It doesnt make a difference if you shoot him in the shoulder with a .380 or a 45acp. Adrenaline will most likely keep him going. A shot to the chest/neck/head with even a .22 LR will stop him most likely.

This is why I chose a 9mm over a .357 sig. If I can't afford to throw AT LEAST 300 rds. of ammo a week down range then I need a different caliber. Practice is what will determine the survivor of a fight....not the round...sorry if I upset the armchair commandos.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 11:37:30 PM EDT
I love my Sig P229 in .40. Most balanced and accurate gun I have ever fired. The recoil is very mild, too.

And although I have no interest in entering into a caliber vs. caliber debate, it should be noted that most major government agencies are using .40 now. If it is the bogus round some people seem to think it is, then why are so many LEA agencies sticking with it?

Oh, and 9mm, .40, .357 and .45 will all kill someone very effectively. All about what you shoot best with......
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:12:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 12:13:50 AM EDT by Accord]
The Secret Service uses 229's in .357sig, and if it's good enough to protect the President, then it's good enough to protect me.

Get a 229 in .357sig for carry and buy a .40s&w barrel for it from www.topgunsupply.com and use the cheap .40s&w CCI Blazer, Lancer Ammo, etc. for practice which is just as cheap as 9mm.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:29:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Accord:
The Secret Service uses 229's in .357sig, and if it's good enough to protect the President, then it's good enough to protect me.



And the SAS, USN SEALs, GSG-9, GIGN, and others have decided that 9mm is good enough for them.

I wouldn't pick a caliber because Group X is using it; pick it because it meets certain technical criteria (penetration and expansion in calibrated gelatin, for example), and has other properties that appeal to you. Cost, controllability, availability, etcetera.

Nobody is saying that you are going to be undergunned or anything like that if you have a .357 Sig or .40 S&W; my only horse in this race is refuting the notion that either of those rounds are demonstrably 'better' than 9mm or .45 ACP.

Besides, it's been a while since I got into a Caliber Jihad.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 6:48:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 6:48:55 AM EDT by Burkey]

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Besides, it's been a while since I got into a Caliber Jihad.



ALLAH HU AKBAR!



9mm makes 1mm smaller hole than .40 S&W and in many cases it lacks the energy to pentrate deep enough to reach vitals (Miami Shootout, perfect shot, just didn't have enough power to go through the arm and then hit the heart). If that man had been shot with a .40 S&W in the exact same spot, he would have died within seconds. .40 S&W also gives one increased capacity over the .45 ACP, 13+1, compared to 12+1 in an HK USP (Great gun BTW). That incident prompted the development and led to the widespread adoption of the .40 S&W round.

European agencies, SEALS, US Army, and alot of other people use the 9mm. I am not saying it will not kill someone, it most certainly will. What I am saying is that in some cases is lacks the ability to penetrate far enough to reach the vital organs of a human. These odd cirumstances (going through the arm, having to go through a car door) may only occur once in a blue moon, but my life is worth the extra cost to practice with .45 ACP or .40 S&W ammo. I honestly see few reasons to go with a 9mm over the .40 S&W. The two are; low cost and high magazine capacity. My life has no price, I will and do pay more for ammo. In self defense very few rounds are fired.

FBI Rule For A Gunfight
Remember that most shootouts are over very quickly. 3 Seconds, 3 Yards, 3 Shots, might as well make them the biggest well placed three shots you can throw out.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:15:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mco119:
I love my Sig P229 in .40. Most balanced and accurate gun I have ever fired. The recoil is very mild, too.

And although I have no interest in entering into a caliber vs. caliber debate, it should be noted that most major government agencies are using .40 now. If it is the bogus round some people seem to think it is, then why are so many LEA agencies sticking with it?

Oh, and 9mm, .40, .357 and .45 will all kill someone very effectively. All about what you shoot best with......



+1 on everything my Sig 229 .40 is my favorite
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 7:47:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:
9mm makes 1mm smaller hole than .40 S&W and in many cases it lacks the energy to pentrate deep enough to reach vitals...



Penetration depends on the load. As testing shows, there are many 9mm loads that get the required 12" of penetration. The FBI load at the time, 115gr STHP, just isn't one of them.



(Miami Shootout, perfect shot, just didn't have enough power to go through the arm and then hit the heart). If that man had been shot with a .40 S&W in the exact same spot, he would have died within seconds.



Maybe. That is dangerously close to Marshall and Sanow turf right there.



.40 S&W also gives one increased capacity over the .45 ACP, 13+1, compared to 12+1 in an HK USP (Great gun BTW). That incident prompted the development and led to the widespread adoption of the .40 S&W round.



Well, it promted the development of 10mm. When various limp-wristed nancies (I kid, I kid! ) couldn't shoot 10mm , they scaled it back to .40.



I honestly see few reasons to go with a 9mm over the .40 S&W. The two are; low cost and high magazine capacity. My life has no price, I will and do pay more for ammo. In self defense very few rounds are fired.



And depending on load, 9mm is a milder round to shoot, allowing faster followup shots. My loading of choice, the Winchester Ranger 147gr JHP, is about as pleasant a round to shoot as you'll find.


And I am still waiting for that elusive 9mm KB...

Link Posted: 3/19/2006 8:16:44 AM EDT
IMO as an owner of a 228 9mm and a 229 .40 with a 357 Sig barrel, if you want a 9mm find a new 228 or excellent condition used one. If you want the bigger caliber(s) then buy a 229 in .40 and buy a 357 sig barrel to go with it.

.40 and 357 sig are about $9 and $13 per 50 for practice ammo where 9mm can be found for $5. If you plan to shoot a lot to be proficient then buy the 9mm.

I personally find the 228 more pleasant to shoot but the 229 in 40 or 357 is not unpleasant to shoot at all.

Using good defensive ammo I don't feel any less undergunned with the 9mm vs. the 40 or 357 Sig. All 3 calibers have loads available that will be excellent for personal defense.

Of course the best answer to all of this is?

BUY BOTH
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 9:28:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Vortech347:
IMO as an owner of a 228 9mm and a 229 .40 with a 357 Sig barrel, if you want a 9mm find a new 228 or excellent condition used one. If you want the bigger caliber(s) then buy a 229 in .40 and buy a 357 sig barrel to go with it.

.40 and 357 sig are about $9 and $13 per 50 for practice ammo where 9mm can be found for $5. If you plan to shoot a lot to be proficient then buy the 9mm.

I personally find the 228 more pleasant to shoot but the 229 in 40 or 357 is not unpleasant to shoot at all.

Using good defensive ammo I don't feel any less undergunned with the 9mm vs. the 40 or 357 Sig. All 3 calibers have loads available that will be excellent for personal defense.

Of course the best answer to all of this is?

BUY BOTH



+ 1 I have a P226 with 9 and 40 bbls.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 9:40:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By Accord:
The Secret Service uses 229's in .357sig, and if it's good enough to protect the President, then it's good enough to protect me.



And the SAS, USN SEALs, GSG-9, GIGN, and others have decided that 9mm is good enough for them.




But MI6 use .32ACPs. They think it's got a deilvery like a brick through a plate glass window. I've heard the CIA swears by them too.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:05:52 PM EDT
All the retarded arguments about ballistics aside, I've got midsized Sigs in 9mm, .40, and .357. All of them are very very accurate. I carry the P229 with the .40 barrel and 165grn Speer Gold Dots, and the P228 with +P124grn Gold Dots. I've got some carry ammo in .357sig, but I've kept the .40 barrel in it for CCW up to this point. Its what you can hit, not what you hit it with. Trust me, ANY badguy who gets hit COM with a quality duty round is going to be in a world of hurt, and if he isn't instantly, thats what you have more bullets for! .45 is great, but for me, a gun that holds 12 rounds of .45 is too big to CCW, heck even a gun that holds 8 is getting pretty big for CCW for me. But the P228 and P229 are the perfect blend of size and power for me. I'd say get a P229 in a heart beat, and get both .357 and .40 barrels for it, so you can have twice the fun!
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:16:43 PM EDT
I have all my defensive handguns such as the USP, 1911s, Glocks, in .45. I also have a few 9mm butt they are used for farm guns and plinking. I have shot alot of things (grew up on a farm) with alot of differnt calibers. The 9mm will do it but a .45 does it better. We used the .22LR most and it kills better than most will give it credit for. I like the .40 but IMO it is not that much better than the 9mm and the 9mm will hold more in the mag. YMMV
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:32:44 PM EDT
If you buy a P229 in either .357 sig or .40 ,whichever you decide, AND a 9mm barrel from Bar-Sto.Cheap 9mm practice with the ability to go to a hotter round.You can't switch up to .357 or .40 on a factory 9mm though.

Personally the 9mm P228 is my favored pistol.The 9mm will get the job done with any good defensive load and be both more controllable and carry more rounds.A pistol is a rifle retention device.Play with pistols,fight with rifles.The fact is that defensive pistols,regardless of caliber,just don't have that much killing power.With a pistol,provided they are powerful enough for adequate penetration,multiple hits and bullet placement rule.Whatever pistol/caliber combination that allows you,personally,to meet these criteria is "The Best".Nevermind what some super ninja secret government ageny or the local pistol master is using.
Link Posted: 3/21/2006 8:37:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/21/2006 8:41:18 AM EDT by ryann]

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By Burkey:
9mm makes 1mm smaller hole than .40 S&W and in many cases it lacks the energy to pentrate deep enough to reach vitals...



Penetration depends on the load. As testing shows, there are many 9mm loads that get the required 12" of penetration. The FBI load at the time, 115gr STHP, just isn't one of them.



(Miami Shootout, perfect shot, just didn't have enough power to go through the arm and then hit the heart). If that man had been shot with a .40 S&W in the exact same spot, he would have died within seconds.



Maybe. That is dangerously close to Marshall and Sanow turf right there.



.40 S&W also gives one increased capacity over the .45 ACP, 13+1, compared to 12+1 in an HK USP (Great gun BTW). That incident prompted the development and led to the widespread adoption of the .40 S&W round.



Well, it promted the development of 10mm. When various limp-wristed nancies (I kid, I kid! ) couldn't shoot 10mm , they scaled it back to .40.



I honestly see few reasons to go with a 9mm over the .40 S&W. The two are; low cost and high magazine capacity. My life has no price, I will and do pay more for ammo. In self defense very few rounds are fired.



And depending on load, 9mm is a milder round to shoot, allowing faster followup shots. My loading of choice, the Winchester Ranger 147gr JHP, is about as pleasant a round to shoot as you'll find.


And I am still waiting for that elusive 9mm KB...




I don't want to get into a caliber argument here, but in the real world I've seen shootings with the Winchester 147 grain, and frankly IMHO it doesn't deliver. I could offer you many examples, of which you'd probably dismiss as anecdotal, but I work for a 3,000 officer agency that mandates in 9mm that the 147 grain be carried, and it's failed far more times than it's delivered.

As an alternative to the 9mm 147 grain, my agency allows personal purchase of the 357Sig load in a Sig 226, 229 or 239.

The 357Sig load is far, far superior to the 9mm 147 grain loading. The 357Sig load is excellant when up against barriers or vehicles, it's penetration is phenomenal and I've yet to hear of anybody surviving a body mass shot with the round.

Our particular 357Sig load is CCI Golddot 124 grain.

When our agency first transitioned to 9mm in the late 80's we were allowed to carry whatever 9mm ammo we chose. Back in those days, there were several shootings involving 115 and 124 grain 9mm's, and the rounds were more than adequate. After the department standardized the 147 grn, enough officers lost confidence in it that the department allowed the 357Sig as an option.

I know this post will stir some debate, but gelatin examples, or ballistics charts are not gonna sway me from what I've seen.

Back on topic; to the original poster, you can't go wrong with a 229 with a .40 and a 357Sig barrel. .40 is cheap to practice with, and eventually the 357Sig will gain in popularity....my local Walmart now sells 357Sig.

Link Posted: 3/21/2006 9:22:26 AM EDT
Another vote for .40.
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