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Posted: 3/4/2006 6:41:57 PM EDT
I've owned many handguns, of all kinds. I'm 36 years old, I've owned maybe 100 different pistols. Perhaps 15 1911-style pistols. I still have a Kimber CDP, nice gun. I still don't see the hype. My friend, a few years younger, also shoots a bunch, has owned many, many handguns, doesn't have a single 1911 type gun after owning many. Why does everyone tout the 1911? I think maybe it's because of the .45ACP. Great round, mediocre gun. The cartridge is carrying the gun.
Not a single instance of the 1911 I've encountered has been 100% reliable. My Kimber CDP, which I consider very good (for a 1911) still stumbles. Many Glocks, however, are 100% reliable, in extreme conditions, with questionable ammo, and old worn mags. Many 1911 owners will say "all my 1911 failures have been traceable to bad mags, bad ammo, low barometric pressure, moody wives, full moon, language barriers, etc, etc, which seem to be more and more the norm these days". Why the 1911? More reliable guns shoot the same great .45 acp.
The 1911 is accurate....if you put $1000 extra into the gun, but you lose a little reliability (in an already unreliable package). My Kimber CDP is pretty accurate, but a $200 taurus 4" .357 revolver will shoot circles around it. Still, why the 1911?
I guess this is just a rant, but I suppose I'm getting sick of 1911s dominating the handgun media out there when there are better guns.
I've had a few Glocks. They have all gone bang, every time, without question. Rain, shine, moody wives, etc. Some revolvers I've owned, have been as reliable, but more accurate. YMMV. Just a rant.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 6:58:30 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 7:45:46 PM EDT
I guess I will take a stab at this one.

I have not owned as many pistols as you have, I only own 5 right now, 2 -1911's(Kimber and a cheap Llama), a S&W CS9, a Walther PPK and a S&W Mod 60, 357 mag. In the past I have owned a Taurus Mod 66, 357 mag, Taurus Millenium Pro 45, and a Kel Tec P32. I have shot quite a few Glocks, many revolvers(Colts, Rugers and S&W, from 22 cal to 44 mag, Beretta Mod 92 (while I was a unit armorer), and a couple Browning High Powers. Out of all of these, I prefer the 1911 chambered in 45 ACP to all of them.

I prefer the Kimber 1911 to all of these pistols. It feels great in my hand, points very naturally, is very realiable, very accurate, easy to control and mild recoil. For me the recoil of the 1911 is more of a push into my hand, instead of a snappy, twist of the wrist recoil. The pistol just feels good to shoot.

The Llama is a nice pistol, just cheaply made. Even thought it is cheap, I have never had a problem with it. No misfires, fte's or ftf's. The sights suck, and I am too lazy to change them. It shoots nice groups, around 3 inches at 20 yds. It is fun to take out to the range and shoot the hell out of it.

I got the CS9 for a steal, wanted something for CCW, but it feels like a brick and the recoil is fast and sharp, not painful, but just harder to get back on target quickly.

The PPK is great for carry and feels great in my hand. Recoil is not a problem at all and it is quite accurate. I like this for its size and feel.

The Mod 60 in 357 mag is my wife, she prefers revolvers to autos, and I like shooting this one as well, just feels good in the hand.

I got rid of the Taurus Millenium Pro. Didn't like the recoil of this pistol at all. When I shot it, it had 3 distinct points of bouncing. Once when the bullet fired, once when the slide recoiled back, and a third time when the slide returned forward. It was hell for me to get the damn pistols back on target quickly.

The Taurus Mod 66 was my wife favorite. Shot great with both 38's and 357 mags. Recoil was back and up every shot, very controllable and easy to get back on target quickly. Sold it when we were dirt poor and needed the cash. Hated to sell that one.

The Kel Tec I bought for the wife and both of us hated it. Only shot it 12 times and back to the dealer it went. Just too small to enjoy shooting it.

The Glocks I have shot have all been accurate enough, reliable as hell, but feel like a brick in the hand. The grip does not fit me right, I have to adjust my grasp to get it comfortable and it does not point naturally like the 1911, at least for me. Recoil is another thing with the Glocks, a little to snappy for me, and too much torque, up and to the right.

A friend of mine has a Ruger in 44 mag, and I love shooting it. Recoil is straight back and up every time. It points naturally, and the smooth grips allow the pistol to slide just enough in my hand to make the recoil painless, even after shooting 50 hot Buffalo Bore loads.

The Berreta is just to big for my hands. The trigger is too far forward for my short ass fingers, and it is too large for being chambered in 9mm in my mind.

So for me, the 1911 has everything I like in a pistol. Points naturally, mild recoil, even with hot loads, very small amount of torque, accurate, comes back on target very quickly, and the biggest factor for me, it just feels damn good in my hand.

Link Posted: 3/4/2006 8:02:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 8:02:48 PM EDT by triburst1]

Originally Posted By manowar669:
I've owned many handguns, of all kinds. I'm 36 years old, I've owned maybe 100 different pistols. Perhaps 15 1911-style pistols. I still have a Kimber CDP, nice gun. I still don't see the hype. My friend, a few years younger, also shoots a bunch, has owned many, many handguns, doesn't have a single 1911 type gun after owning many. Why does everyone tout the 1911? I think maybe it's because of the .45ACP. Great round, mediocre gun. The cartridge is carrying the gun.
Not a single instance of the 1911 I've encountered has been 100% reliable. My Kimber CDP, which I consider very good (for a 1911) still stumbles. Many Glocks, however, are 100% reliable, in extreme conditions, with questionable ammo, and old worn mags. Many 1911 owners will say "all my 1911 failures have been traceable to bad mags, bad ammo, low barometric pressure, moody wives, full moon, language barriers, etc, etc, which seem to be more and more the norm these days". Why the 1911? More reliable guns shoot the same great .45 acp.
The 1911 is accurate....if you put $1000 extra into the gun, but you lose a little reliability (in an already unreliable package). My Kimber CDP is pretty accurate, but a $200 taurus 4" .357 revolver will shoot circles around it. Still, why the 1911?
I guess this is just a rant, but I suppose I'm getting sick of 1911s dominating the handgun media out there when there are better guns.
I've had a few Glocks. They have all gone bang, every time, without question. Rain, shine, moody wives, etc. Some revolvers I've owned, have been as reliable, but more accurate. YMMV. Just a rant.



First of all, I agree with you 100%.

Most of it has to do with guys who want the cool factor of a classic American design they can have customized with the lastest in trendy add-ons and do-dads.

Kind of like a classic car. You can spend $50,000 on a custom '57 Chevy Bel Air and it still won't be as fast, as practical, or reliable as a 2006 Nissan 350Z that you can buy for $30,000.

As Massad Ayoob once wrote, "My idea of a $3,000.00 .45 pistol is a used Volkswagen with a GLOCK 21 in the glove box."
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 8:15:51 PM EDT
They look cool, but only GI style without a bunch of crap added to them...
Practicality-wise, not so great compared to Glocks & USP's...
And 10mm beats the crap outta .45 ACP when loaded the way it's meant to be loaded.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 9:12:23 PM EDT
Why breathe Air? There are so many other gases we could inhale.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 9:26:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By manowar669:
I think maybe it's because of the .45ACP. Great round, mediocre gun. The cartridge is carrying the gun.



Yep.

Glock > 1911.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 9:56:35 PM EDT
manowar669,

I could not agree with you more. That being said, I am currently buying parts to build up a 1911. So why the 1911?...I can only speak for myself. The 1911 to me, is one of the guns that has been a time honored tradition, an icon of ingenuity, invention, victory, self expression/gradification and yes frustration. So why do most people like or rather infatuate themselves with the 1911 above all others? I do not know. For me, the gun feels and shoots like an extension of my own hand, with the exception of a S&W 4" 686 revolver all other handguns have yet to give me that inherent comfort. I can "Customize" or make it MORE my own with a copious inventory of parts verses most other handguns. Plus(and a big one at that) it's damn sexy gun with a lot of style and personality as the person who owns it; each one similar but different at the same time.
Regardless for my reasons why, we live in America where we are all free to choose. Be it a Glock or a 1911 or the debate over Glock vs XD(I don't care. Start that issue on another post.). The point is we have a choice. How about offering a thank you rather than a question why? Here, I'll go first. Thank you everyone who reads this and the countless others who do not for owning a handgun and being a responsible gun owner and ensuring gun owners rights.
All that being said if I had the money I would own every gun ever made(why not?) even the ones that suck. Lastly, I have no beef with any gun of anyone's personal preference. As stated before, "Thank you". I currently own 4-guns right now. What I own is irrelevant. I would not mind owning a Glock and probably will someday. Maybe even a 9mm, just to throw the planets out of allignment.
Take it easy guys and most off all, have fun and be safe whatever you're shooting.

V/R

JDB
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 10:10:32 PM EDT
Well I like many pistols but if I was to answere the question "why a 1911?" I guess for my self

1. Parts availability. They could stop making parts tomorrow and you could buy parts for years.
2. Mag availability
3. Accuracy - Mine are very accurate in my opinion any way and more than any poly framed pistol I have shot but my 97B is more accurate than my 1911.
4. They are a blank canvas and you can do almost any thing you want with them.
5. The American apple pie thing.
6. Some people prefer the grip on a single stack to a double.

Those are enough for me to have one and not all reasons are a "tactical" one but to each his own and if you do not like them then simply do not get one. Just my two cents.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:46:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:06:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By manowar669:
Why does everyone tout the 1911? I think maybe it's because of the .45ACP. Great round, mediocre gun. The cartridge is carrying the gun.



Go to a USPSA/IPSC match and you'll probably see lots of 1911/2011's. You'll probably see more 40's than 45's. Are there some glocks competing head to head with the single actions say, for example, in limited? Yes a few. Every shooter wants a gun thats reliable if they want to win so if the 1911's are so finicky, why are there so many? Because if they are done right they work.

Most shooters including myself prefer a good 1911 trigger over any other option. They are just easier to shoot and call the shots. I shot a glock last fall in production and put quite a bit of effort into it. I found out what a lot of shooters had already told me. It's not as easy to shoot and all things being equal, I'll never shoot as good with the glock as I do my 1911.

If speed and accuaracy is important, you've got to have good trigger control.

What does a game have to do with the real world? People use what works because they want to win. Seems like lots of serious folks are using the 1911's too.

Nothing worse than a bad 1911.
Nothing better than a good one.

Did I mention the superior TRIGGER?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:23:41 AM EDT
Why the 1911?

1. The slide group is only .900" wide. Certainly no other .45's are even close & Glock .45's are about 1.2" wide. Even most 9mm designs are over 1.1". This may not seem important until you decide to carry in an inside-the-waistband holster.

2. The trigger. No other design has a better trigger. The 5 lb (or less) pull with zero creep, minimal backlash, and a reset of about .06" makes it significantly easier to hit anything with.

3. The 39 oz weight seems a negative when compared ro a 23 oz Glock, but it's actually an advantage as far as recoil control. The lighter guns simply have way more bounce & are harder to keep on target.

Accuracy? Pretty much all defensive tye sidearms are good enough for the intended purpose, so debating group size is a waste of time.

While the 10mm has more penetration & is flatter shooting, it recoils harder & is much harder to achieve multiple hits with. Since penetration & trajectory are already adequate for the .45, it's the better defensive round.


"Nostalgia" is the main reason for owning/shooting a Single Action revolver, but with the 1911 you get both nostalgia AND performance. None of the gun companies must realize this, because none of the newer designs match the 1911 in these areas. When a new design DOES, you may have an argument.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:05:29 AM EDT
While I own 15 handguns aquired over the las17 years, I am still really a novice as
I just don't get out to the range enough. I just went this past Friday where I took my
G17 and SA loaded 1911. I just can't believe how much better I shoot the 1911 vs.
the glock - no comparision. I am trying to embrace the whole glock concept - mainly
for SHTF purposes I guess but it will take some work to get as proficient. I did have
to send the SA back for a "reliability package" at my expense ($150?) but it runs
flawlessly and I just love it to death
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:20:49 AM EDT
Why the 1911? That's easy---because Jeff Cooper said so, and because of that the early shooting games were designed around the gun. Other than that there is very little to recommend it today. It was a nice design for its time, but its time is long gone. If Cooper and the early gurus had chosen something else that something else would have achieved the same cult following. Take away Cooper and the early Gunsite recommendations and the 1911 would today have much the same status as the Luger or the BHP. My $.02.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 11:13:04 AM EDT
Why any gun? Why do we have thousands to choose from? Because somewhere out there one of them will just fit our hands, point better than any other, the controls will just fall right where they should for our hands. The sights will align better than any other pistol. Maybe it's a fit finish thing. Pride of ownership. Maybe that certain pistol just "rings your bell,"trips your trigger" etc.

Whatever factors are at work, they're different for everyone. My wife shot IDPA with a Glock 17, and carried a Glock 26. Logic says that she should shoot the 17 better. When practicing at the range, she found that she shot and that the 26 just fit her better. She couldn't explain it, but the proof was on the target.

I carry a Glock 22 on duty, that's what I'm issued. I'm confident in my ability with it, and it's ability to do the job. I know it will go bang everytime I need it to. It has never failed me in 10 years.

But I do choose a 1911 off duty for the above reasons. No matter what, the 1911 paved the way for just about everything that followed in it's footsteps. I'm not really concerned that it worked or not for Col. Cooper or anyone else. I know that it works for me. To each his or her own. Thats my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 11:27:57 AM EDT
Cooper didn't pick the 1911 out of a hat. He spent years searching for the best weapon for his uses, and that turned out to be the 1911. How can it be outdated if it still does the job?

I like the 1911 because I have yet to find a weapon with ergonomics and a trigger that are better suited to me and my shooting style. Other weapons may have a more impressive spec sheet, but does that matter? My 1911 sits on my hip without bothering me, so I don't care about the weight. It is long and tall but thin. Most importantly, when I clear leather I am not thinking about managing a shitty trigger or adjusting my grip on a fat wondernine--I am watching the front sight and not worrying about anything else.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 11:52:37 AM EDT
Im wanting a 45 acp. If my pragmatic side wins ill get a glock, hk, or sig. If my romantic side wins, Ill get a 1911. Those guns are beautiful.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 11:55:58 AM EDT
Why?



It's an AMERICAN design that has been around for almost 100 years. It works.

Keep your goddamned Glocks.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 12:06:54 PM EDT
This is something I'm trying to figure out as well. I shoot Sigs exclusivly, and love the ergonomics of them. Frankly, I can't stand the ergos of a 1911 in comparison. However, every time I shoot a buddy's 1911, I'm every bit as good with it as I am any of my Sigs. They are just inherently very easy to shoot in my opinion. And there is no more aesthetically pleasing weapon out there than a good looking 1911. So what am I doing? Looking for a good deal on a Sig 1911 of course!
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 2:19:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By darm441:
Why the 1911? That's easy---because Jeff Cooper said so, and because of that the early shooting games were designed around the gun. Other than that there is very little to recommend it today. It was a nice design for its time, but its time is long gone. If Cooper and the early gurus had chosen something else that something else would have achieved the same cult following. Take away Cooper and the early Gunsite recommendations and the 1911 would today have much the same status as the Luger or the BHP. My $.02.



I think I peed my pants on this one.

You can show up at the gun games I play and bring anything you can holster or snap to a speed rig. If it's so outdated, why are so many winners still shooting it? Why is the 100 year old platform so popular?

"and because of that the early shooting games were designed around the gun"
I'm just guessing here, but my guess is you've seen little of the practical gun games.

Link Posted: 3/6/2006 3:20:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:12:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 4:13:42 PM EDT by GT86]
Well, I'm far from an expert, but I'll throw in my 2 cents. My first pistol was a Glock, and over the years I owned quite a few of them. Got pretty good with them, although they never really felt natural. Mostly the grip angle, which always wanted to point high for me.

Tried a 1911 for the first time about a year ago, and it was no comparison. The 1911 fit my hand so much better, and I was more accurate with it than I ever was with the Glocks, even though I had shot Glocks for years. Instead of the squishy trigger and an upward pointing gun, I now had an unbelievable trigger and a gun that pointed naturally for me.

I'm not slamming on the Glocks, all the ones I owned were utterly reliable and reasonably accurate. But the 1911 works better for me, so that's what I use.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:04:32 PM EDT
It shoots right, feels right, and looks right. I have yet to have a failure in either my Colt stainless Officers ACP that I have had for 15 years or my 2 year old cheap RIA 1911 clone. God Bless John Browning.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 1:06:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By effinNewGuy:



Keep your goddamned Glocks.





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