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Posted: 2/24/2006 4:40:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 2:17:11 AM EDT by 1IV]
Six months ago I got on here and posted in someone's thread that I thought it was alright to cary an unchamberd firearm concealed. For a while now I have been embarrased by that statement. I have been thru some changes in the last few months that opened my eyes.

I made this comment when I was talking about my Glock. At the time I was using a backpack for summer-time cary, CARYING UNCHAMBERED BECUSE I was worried about a ND. I still believe in a bag that unchambered is the way to go unless you have a bag designed with an appropriate holster in it.

In the last six months I have attended two schools, and worked contracts with others, and that theory that I had: "... that you can get to your gun, chamber, and engage..." is false. I have now become a believer in
A)Good holsters
B)Proper mindset
C)Murphy's law

Lets face it. If your going to be carrying it, you need to have it on your hip chambered, or under your arm. Women can get away with specialized purses. If you live in a state that make you sweat and wear light clothing get an appropriate rust resistant weapon. Glock, Sig, Stainless,etc and clean it like it was a set of teeth.

I just wanted to make shure everyone knew I was converted, and lend food for thought.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:49:30 PM EDT
I think I supported you on Cond 3 carry and got burnt, um scorched, pretty bad.

I'm a team member now so I know better
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:51:50 PM EDT
I carry my P99's with one in the chamber. The P99 lacks a manual "safety" just like some of the other handguns out there. As long as you have a good holster and you practice drawing so its second nature, it should never be a problem.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:51:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Women can get away with specialized purses.


bad idea
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:56:18 PM EDT
You change weapons, from an unsafe glock to a weapon that either has a manual safety (and spend time training accordingly) or a weapon with a substantial DA trigger pull, like a revovler.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:58:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Women can get away with specialized purses.


bad idea



Thus the Get away with .... My wife is 5'2" It is impossible for her to cary during the summer on her hip, with-out it being painfully obvious.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:59:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
You change weapons, from an unsafe glock to a weapon that either has a manual safety (and spend time training accordingly) or a weapon with a substantial DA trigger pull, like a revovler.


here we go again
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:00:14 PM EDT
I debate this in my mind extensively, but have settled on one in the chamber.

In the case of a Glock, leaving it holstered in a good Kydex holster all the time, addresses the "unsafe Glock" comment above, and makes it more ready than a gun with a safety on or heavy DA first shot.

I wouldn't have a chambered Glock without some form of holster surrounding it, but that's just me.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:01:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 5:02:55 PM EDT by 1IV]

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
You change weapons, from an unsafe glock to a weapon that either has a manual safety (and spend time training accordingly) or a weapon with a substantial DA trigger pull, like a revovler.



Good Holsters for good guns. GLOCKS
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:08:27 PM EDT
If not for yourself, for everybody else. Keep it holstered in a quality holster when it's loaded. Please for dear God man.

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:26:54 PM EDT
i know that a lot of people would disagree w/ me, but it is just my personal preference that i would NOT consider a SA only gun with internal hammer for a carry weapon. I know a ND would be preventable with a good holster and common sense, but i personally would never do it. I'd rather carry my HK or something along those lines. just my $.02
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:10:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
i know that a lot of people would disagree w/ me, but it is just my personal preference that i would NOT consider a SA only gun with internal hammer for a carry weapon. I know a ND would be preventable with a good holster and common sense, but i personally would never do it. I'd rather carry my HK or something along those lines. just my $.02



WTF is an SA handgun with internal hammer? Examples?
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:14:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
You change weapons, from an unsafe glock to a weapon that either has a manual safety (and spend time training accordingly) or a weapon with a substantial DA trigger pull, like a revovler.



Excellent post, sir. Would you care to expound on your comments or just be considered an ignorant rube by us?

G
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:19:31 PM EDT
I think he'll settle for ignorant rube.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:08:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
i know that a lot of people would disagree w/ me, but it is just my personal preference that i would NOT consider a SA only gun with internal hammer for a carry weapon. I know a ND would be preventable with a good holster and common sense, but i personally would never do it. I'd rather carry my HK or something along those lines. just my $.02



WTF is an SA handgun with internal hammer? Examples?

oh, i dunno much about handguns, i just got my first one. i thought that's what a glock was.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:12:16 PM EDT
My wife carries a sig template Bersa Firestorm compact in 45. Great little gun. Its a Ambi pistol And she trusts the slug to do its job if she does hers.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:13:48 PM EDT
yes
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:53:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jb241970:
I think he'll settle for ignorant rube.



He will fit right in with glock lovers.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 12:03:12 AM EDT
I would reccomend always having one in the chamber. Of course you need a gun that is safe to do with [as in not a CSAA with the fixed firing pin]

Of course if you always trained like the old Mossad draw/cock/aim/fire it may not be a problem not having one in the chamber, unless you were to draw the weapon in a situation where you didn't want someone to hear the weapon cocking in which case you'ld be up shit creek.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 1:51:00 AM EDT
I always have one in the chamber even in my unsafe Glock.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 2:07:32 AM EDT
One in the chamber always for me....I solve the issue of a ND by not touching the trigger.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 3:48:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:

Originally Posted By jb241970:
I think he'll settle for ignorant rube.



He will fit right in with glock lovers.



You've been exposed!


Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:27:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:

Originally Posted By jb241970:
I think he'll settle for ignorant rube.



He will fit right in with glock lovers.



Oh snap.

G
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 5:04:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 5:11:02 PM EDT by eklikwhoa]
glock with one in the pipe



badguys arent gonna wait for you to rack the slide or load a mag.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:22:25 PM EDT
In the overall scheme of things, it doesn't matter much. Chamber empty, chamber loaded, each has advantages and disadvantages. The key is to make an informed decision based on your situation, your equipment, etc. Sounds like you got some training, did a good evaluation, and came to a good decision for you. Congratulations.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 4:47:40 PM EDT
Is there any other way?
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:08:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 7:09:33 PM EDT by watertower]

Originally Posted By 1IV:
In the last six months I have attended two schools, and worked contracts with others, and that theory that I had: "... that you can get to your gun, chamber, and engage..." is false. I have now become a believer in
A)Good holsters
B)Proper mindset
C)Murphy's law

Lets face it. If your going to be carrying it, you need to have it on your hip chambered, or under your arm. Women can get away with specialized purses. If you live in a state that make you sweat and wear light clothing get an appropriate rust resistant weapon. Glock, Sig, Stainless,etc and clean it like it was a set of teeth.

I just wanted to make shure everyone knew I was converted, and lend food for thought.





I'm a little slow sometimes too. Glad you've seen the light!!
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:21:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dsking85:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By Dsking85:
i know that a lot of people would disagree w/ me, but it is just my personal preference that i would NOT consider a SA only gun with internal hammer for a carry weapon. I know a ND would be preventable with a good holster and common sense, but i personally would never do it. I'd rather carry my HK or something along those lines. just my $.02



WTF is an SA handgun with internal hammer? Examples?

oh, i dunno much about handguns, i just got my first one. i thought that's what a glock was.



DAYUM!!!!! You are not "represntin'" us tarheelians very well!!!!
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 7:40:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 7:42:34 PM EDT by IndianaDean]
My NRA instructor demonstrated with me using a Glock with dummy bullets how I could not draw and rack it fast enough to fire before he was on me. He stood 25 feet away, and even told me when he was going to start running toward me. He had before I could bring the gun up to firing level to rack it. His point was "If you're going to carry, always carry with one in the chamber."

I could possibly see having the firearm at bedside unracked, but I'm not sure about that either. I always have mine chambered.

I sometimes carry a Glock, sometimes an HK USP, sometimes a 1911. The "switching between different types" is not an issue, because I train constantly with all the different types. Today I trained with my Glock and a 44 magnum.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 8:25:58 PM EDT
What kinda dumbass question is this?

All guns are loaded.

Pretty simple.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:03:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 9:03:54 PM EDT by Rabon]
Does this ring a bell? An empty gun is nothing more than a club.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 9:14:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 9:17:17 PM EDT by 1IV]
Heay Im workin hard to correct a notion I propigated, that it is a viable way to cary a gun for personal defence un-chambered. Yeah I was wrong, and I knew it the second I tried the drill described. And I felt bad for the others that supported it when I realized how unwise it was to try to encourage it.

Does this ring a bell? An empty gun is nothing more than a club.

Yeah.... Yeah it does. Then we went and fired three hundred rounds, in three hours doing drills.
Link Posted: 2/25/2006 10:02:53 PM EDT
see sigline
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:01:09 PM EDT
browning hipower always in condition 1 - cocked and locked and in a good holster. I've trained with cocked and locked 1911's and hipowers for 35 years. Carry as you train, and train as you carry. If you carry a gun without a manual / exernal safety realize that and train accordingly (and use a holster always!!)
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 3:16:22 PM EDT
I am one for emphasizing that the shooter know his weapon...get so accustom to it that you can handle it safely without thinking about it...so, carrying a weapon that is ready with a round chambered wouldn't change the way I handle my weapon. It can save my life...being caught off-guard and not having enough time to chamber a round isn't a position I want to be found caught in...
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 8:10:34 PM EDT
If I'm with my friend's kids, I'll sometimes unchamber for a while, while we play and all that other fun stuff. But, as soon as we aren't horseplaying, I rechamber. You never know when someone will break in. Also, I'd hate to injure a child if something inadvertantly occured. But, other than that, I'm chambered no matter what.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 8:25:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/26/2006 8:27:29 PM EDT by chromeluv]

Originally Posted By ar15zams:
<snip>
But, as soon as we aren't horseplaying, I rechamber. You never know when someone will break in.
<snip>



EXACTLY. Who stands a better chance at defending themselves? Your adult friends or a child? What is your metal rock going to do for them if someone does break in?

You posted this after reading this thread, but yet you haven't grasped the point of the thread? When I go to movies, pick one, there are kids everywhere. I DO NOT go to the bathroom and 'unchamber' a round in fear of cooking one off. The whole point to being in condition one is to protect yourself and loved ones at the time of need. You run an EXPONENTIALLY HIGHER RISK of cooking off a round while unchambering/unloading a rifle in the bathroom or room, whatever unusual, not familair situation your in than having a properly maintained firearm safely holstered and any and all safeties engaged at that moment.

If you are uncertain/confused about your firearm, training, confidence, proper holster, or any other variable when it comes to CCW, DO NOT CARRY AT ALL. You are not ready to do it, not for a long time.

I just dont get it sometimes....

People pay money to carry, do the class, pay money for firearms, ammo, and then negate the entire purpose of carrying at the moments when they shouldn't.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 9:03:15 PM EDT
True. If there is a good holster around the weapon. Dont pull it out to modify it. It is not a good idea.
Link Posted: 2/26/2006 11:17:39 PM EDT
i honestly only unholster to, shoot, clean or practice drawing which in that case i unchamber. Even when not packing on my hip I take my holster off my belt and transport it inside the holster. You must always keep your trigger clear of fingers and anyting loose that could snagg the trigg,

ETA,........The other major issue is unsafe re-holsetering ALWAYS becarefull when reholstering
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 9:08:07 AM EDT
Always have one chambered. One may not have the chance or the other hand available to rack the slide.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 12:43:28 PM EDT
I prefer to have it chambered, but then I carry a gun, not a tube.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:43:54 AM EDT
How do CZ75's and CZ75-based handguns go when it comes to the issue of carrying with one round in the chamber?

I've held one but never fired one, and am considering purchasing a CZ75 or Jericho 941.


Is it the grip/trigger safety of guns like the Glock and Springfield XD series that make them unsafe to carry in a holster?

From what I understand carrying with a round in the chamber becomes an issue of both discharge by pulling the trigger on accident while holstered (Should be impossible in a good holster) and of accidental discharge while withdrawing the pistol from the holster.

Maybe this is a silly topic, and I may not understand what exactly the situation is, but it seems like Glocks are just about as safe as other manual safetied handguns, especially in a holster. When in a good holster, a Glock or similarly designed weapon seems just as safe as a weapon with a manual safety, except faster to withdraw and fire. When carried in a backpack, purse, etc., it might be possible for a manual safety to somehow work itself to the "fire" position and discharge. A Glock seems similarly unsafe in that situation, though, as it would not be too difficult for the grip and trigger safeties to simultaneously be set off and fire.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:58:50 AM EDT
The CZ is (most models) a DA pistol that can be carried cocked-and-locked. Uncomfortable with C&L, carry with the hammer down or at half-cock (actually I do not recall if this is an option with the CZ).

Gonna be a bitch to get that slide racked and round chambered if you need to shoot someone with an injured non-dominant hand or otherwise engaged non-dominant hand. My way of thinking. There are ways to do it but probably a million firearms are carried with a round in the chamber daily with few NDs.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:08:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TrooperCody:

Maybe this is a silly topic, and I may not understand what exactly the situation is, but it seems like Glocks are just about as safe as other manual safetied handguns, especially in a holster. When in a good holster, a Glock or similarly designed weapon seems just as safe as a weapon with a manual safety, except faster to withdraw and fire. When carried in a backpack, purse, etc., it might be possible for a manual safety to somehow work itself to the "fire" position and discharge. A Glock seems similarly unsafe in that situation, though, as it would not be too difficult for the grip and trigger safeties to simultaneously be set off and fire.




Some could argue this above. In the rare event that something is obstructing/stuck/pick your verb in a holster, while a glock is holstered, and this object has the capability to get inside the trigger well, and depress the only manual safety on the gun, it could cause a discharge.

But with an XD/1911/USP/choose your pistol here, if the same situation happens, with a C&L 1911/USP or XD, they have a manual safety that keeps the firing pin to be released and/or have the grip safety that will prevent the gun from going off.

There was an incident, earlier last year that a glock discharged in an Officer's car for the reason above. I will try to find it but it was not due to the operator, it was something causing a defect in the holster...

NO flame war meant to be started with the above...
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:49:37 PM EDT
I don't worry about AD's with Glocks but what I am concerned about is a BG getting ahold of your gun. With a Glock it's "point and shoot" but with a 1911 or anything else with an external safety, there is a good chance the BG will not know how to operate it until you can regain control of your weapon.

Just my .02
MadDog
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:10:31 PM EDT
My NRA instructor told us all to always carry with one in the chamber, then demonstrated with me using snap caps how I could not draw and rack one in time to stop him from running at me and catching me from 25 feet away. He even told me when he was going to begin coming at me. I could not rack the weapon and raise it to a firing position in time.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:33:51 PM EDT

My NRA instructor demonstrated with me using a Glock with dummy bullets how I could not draw and rack it fast enough to fire before he was on me. He stood 25 feet away, and even told me when he was going to start running toward me. He had before I could bring the gun up to firing level to rack it. His point was "If you're going to carry, always carry with one in the chamber."

That is a rather silly point unless you know all your attacks are going to come from exactly 25 feet and the attacker will always move as fast as your instructor. You might not have been able to get a good shot off even if the round was chambered, as we demonstrate regularly with a drill known as the Tueller Drill. Lots of factors impact speed of presentation. Chamber empty or chamber loaded is only one of those factors, and usually not a particularly important one.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:42:38 PM EDT

Chamber empty or chamber loaded is only one of those factors, and usually not a particularly important one.


omg.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:29:02 PM EDT
unless the slide is locked back or the gun is in pieces, my handguns are always chambered. That way, I never have to hesitate to rack the slide or think if I chambered it or not. My rifles on the other hand, have the magazines loaded but not in the gun
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:32:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 6:44:19 PM EDT by goloud]

Originally Posted By chromeluv:

Originally Posted By ar15zams:
<snip>
But, as soon as we aren't horseplaying, I rechamber. You never know when someone will break in.
<snip>



EXACTLY. Who stands a better chance at defending themselves? Your adult friends or a child? What is your metal rock going to do for them if someone does break in?

You posted this after reading this thread, but yet you haven't grasped the point of the thread? When I go to movies, pick one, there are kids everywhere. I DO NOT go to the bathroom and 'unchamber' a round in fear of cooking one off. The whole point to being in condition one is to protect yourself and loved ones at the time of need. You run an EXPONENTIALLY HIGHER RISK of cooking off a round while unchambering/unloading a rifle in the bathroom or room, whatever unusual, not familair situation your in than having a properly maintained firearm safely holstered and any and all safeties engaged at that moment.

If you are uncertain/confused about your firearm, training, confidence, proper holster, or any other variable when it comes to CCW, DO NOT CARRY AT ALL. You are not ready to do it, not for a long time.

I just dont get it sometimes....

People pay money to carry, do the class, pay money for firearms, ammo, and then negate the entire purpose of carrying at the moments when they shouldn't.




Well said.

I can see no reason to carry a modern gun used for protection without a round in the chamber. There are a bunch of analogies, but you will only need this: It's a good way to lose a gunfight.

If you don't want the gun to go off, don't pull the trigger.

ETA:

If you want to destroy what you are aiming at, pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 7:16:22 PM EDT
I say carry however you feel comfortable carrying.

I doubt there's a single poster here that can give us an example of somebody that was "burned" by carrying w/o a round in the chamber, or somebody whose life was saved because of a round in the chamber.
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