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Posted: 2/12/2006 10:57:12 AM EDT
I posted this in the Kel Tec forum, but am not getting much response there, so I will DUPE it here to get some info.

I'm looking at a small carbine for car carry/fun shooting and am looking at a few different models. Please vote and let me know why you voted the way you did (personal experience is prefered) I have a Beretta 92 and an AR, so if i went with the SUB it would be with Beretta mags. I would also put in for a few of the 30rd Promag mags that they have for the Beretta (I know they're crap, but it's fun to play with at the range)

Let me know what y'all think.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:17:12 PM EDT
I have two pistol cal carbines. Both are Hi Points one in 9mm 995 and one in 40S&W 4095. They are great guns and dam fun to shoot accurately, good sights, 100% reliable and inexpensive. Here is a link to the new Hi Point forum for more information. The money you save can go into ammo and accessories.

hipoint.7.forumer.com/
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:32:41 PM EDT
Kel-Tec 2k

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:33:14 PM EDT
The thing i like about the KT carbines is that they fold up. The SUB2k folds to 16" long, and so does the SU-16. I'd like to carry this as much as possible, and size is a MAJOR consideration.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:41:02 PM EDT
the Sub 2k will work fine (as a pistol caliber carbine)

if you want a rifle caliber, an AR or AK would be the best

the kel-tec 5.56 rifles, while pretty good, i think that for the prices would be best suited for another AR....

but thier S2Ks are worth the ~$300 value
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:15:28 PM EDT
AR based, I'd prefer Colt, but am looking at RRA!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:17:42 PM EDT

two pages of info, on the archive server:
archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=9&t=218565

ar-jedi

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:22:47 PM EDT
a friend of mine has the kel-tec 9mm and i think it sucks


i got a colt carbine and its great and has been great, also accepts all the great gear available for the ar platform.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:43:20 PM EDT
For a sub-gun my vote goes for the Uzi. although it is heavy, it will eat rounds that most other guns couldn't even think about. Also it has been my experience that uzi's tend to be very acurate.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:11:39 PM EDT
Get a High Point
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:12:28 AM EDT
Sub 2k's are a lot of fun.
I have a 9mm that uses g17 mags. Sights take a little getting used to for me but it is fairly accurate and fun to shoot.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 11:58:15 AM EDT
I have an Uzi carbine so that's what I recommend.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:16:16 PM EDT
My Marlin .45 Carbine takes 1911 mags
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:20:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 12:21:37 PM EDT by Colt_SBR]
Colt LE6450.





_________________________


Link Posted: 2/13/2006 12:42:30 PM EDT
HK 94

IMI UZI or 9mm AR15 are the best 9mm rifles IMO.

But for the money the Beretta Storm is a fun little gun. It is great if you already own a Beretta 92.

Chris
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:00:50 PM EDT
I already have a AR and want something smaller in overall length, at least in a stored capacity. An AR is too long for what I want, even with an 11" barrel, not to mention that you lose a good bit of the 5.56's ability when you shorten it down so much.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:12:49 PM EDT
try a wasr-10 with a romy folding stock. cheap, reliable, durable, and compact. mags, ammo, spare parts are everywhere.

i gave up on kel tec. they make interesting designs but the quality is not good. they have a much higher rate of parts failure than any good company. they will fix your gun for free for ever but they are not to be used to defend your life.

the beretta looks fun but too much $$$
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:19:09 PM EDT
Think I might get the oly arms glock lower, and put on my A1 upper.

I think thats my best bet, cause I have a few glock mags laying around and would prefer to use the Glock mags on my AR platform.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:40:09 PM EDT
I use an Oly Arms 9mm 16" carbine and it performs flawlessly. It has proved to be a fun and reliable pistol caliber carbine,
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 3:51:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 3:55:36 PM EDT by adair_usmc]
Mp5


And yes, you do need to hear it -

DUPE
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:03:58 PM EDT
AR15 9mm.
HK94 9mm.
Uzi 9mm.

In that order as well. I don't thnk there's any other 9mm carbine I'd consider, but I could be forgetting something.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:25:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 6:27:28 PM EDT by TBoneDetroit]

Originally Posted By UZI4you:
HK 94

IMI UZI or 9mm AR15 are the best 9mm rifles IMO.

But for the money the Beretta Storm is a fun little gun. It is great if you already own a Beretta 92.

Chris


What he said..... at least the top two lines. Not that familiar with the Storm myself.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:10:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Colt_SBR:
Colt LE6450.

216.219.239.217/~admin26/1/1/1%202000.jpg

216.219.239.217/~admin26/1/1/1%201998.jpg

_________________________

img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/Colt_SBR/57985sm.gif



BIG +1 others would include HK94 type carbines, HK USC's (like a UMP for those who aren't familliar), followed by UZI variants and Thompson variants (the older ones are supposed to be much better than the newer production). Or, of course, you could get one of those M1 Carbines that has been rechambered for .357 Magnum anybody ever heard of that ? I know that at least one smith was rechambering M1 Carbines for 10mm a while back, too.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:05:25 PM EDT
They always forget the ugly ones

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:22:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LArifleMAN:
They always forget the ugly ones

i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/RyanJR/IMG_2368.jpg



Wow, what am I looking at ? I don't recognize that weapon, the mags look like Thompson or M3 Grease Gun mags, though.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 1:45:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 9:14:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 9:27:07 AM EDT by olds442tyguy]

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By LArifleMAN:
They always forget the ugly ones

i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/RyanJR/IMG_2368.jpg



Wow, what am I looking at ? I don't recognize that weapon, the mags look like Thompson or M3 Grease Gun mags, though.


I believe that's a Feather RAV-9. They look pretty evil, but alot of people don't like them due to supposed reliability issues.

I'd buy one if I knew it ran. You can find them for pretty cheap on Gunbroker, all though production seems to be stopped, or cut down atleast.

ETA: Their website domain is for sale.

Feather USA
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:29:21 AM EDT
It's actually the Feather AT-9, it came before the RAV-9. It's no the most reliable thing in the world, but it isn't a raging POS either.

It has it's place as a fun gun
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:38:20 AM EDT
Mech Tech 1911 Carbine with AR stock

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:15:51 PM EDT
I am a sucker for PCCs, especially ones that use a magazine in common with one (or more) of my pistols. I currently own a 9mm AR (Oly system), a CX4 Storm, 2 Kel-Tec folders (a SUB-9 & a SUB-2000), a Marlin Camp Carbine, and a CM-11 carbine . Back before the AWB, I also had an UZI carbine and a HK94A3 (shouldn't have parted with either one of those... ). FWIW, I also have .357 & .44 lever-guns I love, but I know this thread is about mag-fed semi-autos.

My favorite of the bunch is the Beretta Storm for a host of reasons, many of which I realize are entirely subjective. No, it's not perfect. Yes, I wish it ran off Glock mags (Glocks are my primary handguns, although I do own a few Beretta 92s & have plenty of mags for that platform) and the day Gaston decides to give us a quality carbine that uses Glock mags I will eschew my wonderful little CX4 for it, I'm sure.

Were I planning to use a PCC for SD/HD (I'm not), I would have to go with the Kel-Tec because (1) my SD/HD hanguns are Glocks and (2) the two Kel-Tecs I own have been great. But just using PCCs for fun (which I do), if I had to pick I would choose the Storm because I simply like it the best. (The 9mm AR is a close second, and second only because it doesn't share mags with anything else I own.)
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 2:14:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By LArifleMAN:
They always forget the ugly ones

i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/RyanJR/IMG_2368.jpg



Wow, what am I looking at ? I don't recognize that weapon, the mags look like Thompson or M3 Grease Gun mags, though.


I believe that's a Feather RAV-9. They look pretty evil, but alot of people don't like them due to supposed reliability issues.

I'd buy one if I knew it ran. You can find them for pretty cheap on Gunbroker, all though production seems to be stopped, or cut down atleast.

ETA: Their website domain is for sale.

Feather USA



They're a little expensive on that site for what they are. You could buy an AR for almost that much (definitely an AK with accessories). I'd like the weapon more if it were about $100-$200 cheaper and the reliability wasn't questionable (as in the previous posts). As a side note, the guns on that site look a lot like paintball guns, LOL, the one with the forward grip reminds me of my Tippmann M98.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:26:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

They're a little expensive on that site for what they are. You could buy an AR for almost that much (definitely an AK with accessories). I'd like the weapon more if it were about $100-$200 cheaper and the reliability wasn't questionable (as in the previous posts). As a side note, the guns on that site look a lot like paintball guns, LOL, the one with the forward grip reminds me of my Tippmann M98.



I bought mine with the 4 mags for $500 used, looking at the gunbroker prices that seems resonable. The prices on their site are more than I would have paid.

I have an ARin .357sig/9mm, an original Action Arms Model A Uzi, a Keltec and a Marlin 94 in .357. Out of those I would grabe the AR first because I have had zero reliability issuse with it.

The rest are for shits and giggles
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:11:03 PM EDT
If money is no object- HK MP5 or SP89

because money IS an object (for me) 9mm AR15 rifle/pistol
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:27:05 PM EDT
money is a MAJOR object. That's part of the reason the Kel Tec looks so appealing... ~$300
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 8:44:57 PM EDT
Since money is an issue I would get the Storm you had listed but if you are going pistol caliber any way I would also consider the M1 .30cal carbine. I had one and wish I still did. It was light, fast handeling and follow up shots were easy. Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 9:45:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GenghisKhan:
Since money is an issue I would get the Storm you had listed but if you are going pistol caliber any way I would also consider the M1 .30cal carbine. I had one and wish I still did. It was light, fast handeling and follow up shots were easy. Just my opinion.



+1 on the M1. I've seen M1 Carbines rechambered for pistol cartridges such as 10mm and .357 before, too. Not sure about current availabilty, but I know it's been done.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:51:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 5:32:46 PM EDT by GarrettJ]
ETA, Hey look. Post 500!
<--------


Don't overlook the Marlin Camp Carbine. They have been discontinued, but can still be found without too much trouble.

The biggest complaint about them is the squishy trigger. It can be cleaned up some.

Overall, it's a pretty good "fun" gun. I had a 9mm for a while. It used S&W pistol mags, and the aftermarket 20 round mags I had worked great. I later sold it and bought a .45, which uses 1911 mags.

I don't shoot it much, as I have .45 & 9mm subguns that can do anything the Marlin can and more. I occasionally think about selling it, but just haven't been able to bring myself to it.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:54:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 12:55:36 PM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By GarrettJ:
Don't overlook the Marlin Camp Carbine... The biggest complaint about them is the squishy trigger...



... and the fact that the 9mm version isn't rated for +P/+P+ ammo.

(FWIW I love my Camp Carbine [esp. with a red-dot], but find that lack of capability disappointing in a PCC.)

Another one to consider is the Ruger PC carbine (9 & .40) that uses their handgun mags - I didn't mention them earlier simply because I've never owned one...
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