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Posted: 2/6/2006 11:09:51 AM EDT
OK so lets start this out right.
Please no flaming, bashing, etc. I just want some facts. Currently I have not owned a .45 that has never had a feeding problem or extracting problem at least a couple of times. Although I don't put a lot of rounds through them, I want something that will function when I need it to.

I have currently owned a Springfield Loaded Ultra Compact, Colt Lightweight Commando Ed., ParaOrdance. Every one of them FTF or FTE at least a couple of times.
I have not owned a glock .45 but I do have a glock 27 which is my CCW.

I want a .45 for a shooting gun but looking for something that can be suppressed as well. I don't like Full Size frame guns. I have a Berretta 96 and had a 92 and those about as big as I will go but prefer something a little smaller.

I am thinking about an H&K either a USP Tactical or USP Compact. Now granted I have never held or shot an H&K but from what people are saying they are very reliable. Other than glock as well should I be looking at anything else???

Thanks
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:11:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
OK so lets start this out right.
Please no flaming, bashing, etc. I just want some facts. Currently I have not owned a .45 that has never had a feeding problem or extracting problem at least a couple of times. Although I don't put a lot of rounds through them, I want something that will function when I need it to.

I have currently owned a Springfield Loaded Ultra Compact, Colt Lightweight Commando Ed., ParaOrdance. Every one of them FTF or FTE at least a couple of times.
I have not owned a glock .45 but I do have a glock 27 which is my CCW.

I want a .45 for a shooting gun but looking for something that can be suppressed as well. I don't like Full Size frame guns. I have a Berretta 96 and had a 92 and those about as big as I will go but prefer something a little smaller.

I am thinking about an H&K either a USP Tactical or USP Compact. Now granted I have never held or shot an H&K but from what people are saying they are very reliable. Other than glock as well should I be looking at anything else???

Thanks



There you go, no need to look at anything else. If you really got the cash, you could always get your hands on a Mk. 23 SOCOM. I love my USP's, but I love my Mk. 23 more.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:13:01 AM EDT
Sig 220
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:16:01 AM EDT
They just beat me to my two answers. I'm a sig/HK/glock guy because I want my guns to be reliable. Yes, I'm sure there are other reliable ones out there.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:22:35 AM EDT
From pictures on the net, it is hard to tell how big these things are. The 23 socom looks as big as a desert eagle, but that probably isn't so.

There is a fun show this weekend, so maybe someone might have some H&Ks that I can look at.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:24:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 11:24:53 AM EDT by ORinTX]
H&K

SIG

Glock

In that order.

Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:26:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
From pictures on the net, it is hard to tell how big these things are. The 23 socom looks as big as a desert eagle, but that probably isn't so.

There is a fun show this weekend, so maybe someone might have some H&Ks that I can look at.



The SOCOM is damn near close to that size.

I'd go with a USP tactical over the 23 though.

USP Compact and SIG P220 make nice .45s for carry.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:30:49 AM EDT
If you don't want a full size gun, the USP Tac is not an option. Although, if you shoot one, you might change your mind. If your looking for reliability compact, USPc and P220 are both great choices.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:33:32 AM EDT
USPs are VERY reliable. I have been less than impressed with Glocks in .45. Actually, I have been less than impressed with Glocks in any caliber but 9mm or perhaps 10mm.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:35:03 AM EDT
Wheel gun with MOON CLIPS!

Other than that maybe the GLOCK or HK.

Haven't had good luck with the 2 Sig220s that I've shot.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:35:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 11:38:50 AM EDT by VBC]
If you're talking money is no object, it would be a Ed Brown 1911. Something costing over $2,000.

Sigs, HKs have their issues occassionally, same with all the mass produced assembly line guns. Only way to be sure of one that is perfectly reliable out of the box is to have one that's been hand-tweaked by an armorer or gunsmith or custom maker.


I've got two Sigs that didn't work well out of the box. Glocks never given me much of a problem and seem to be consistently reliable from gun to gun, although I have had a couple rare issues on the range with feeding.

But if you get a Glock, Sig or HK, you've got a pretty good chance you got one that works good and you got a well built gun.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:37:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 11:41:21 AM EDT by jackal2001]
This will not be a CCW. I already have a glock 27 for that purpose.
I want something to shoot at the range and other stuff. My hands are not that big and I am really not that comfortable with a double stacked .45 mag gun.
Is the USP Tactical single stacked or double? I just want something that feels comfortable.

My glock 27 has never once failed in any manner.

$1000 is probably around my limit just because I don't think you need to spend over that amount. I agree that some custom stuff is better, but for the price difference I will probably stick with something mass produced.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:39:39 AM EDT
FWIW, the most reliable 45acp I've ever seen was a S&W Mod 625 wheel-gun/revolver.

To the best of my knowledge it has never failed to go bang, (as a result of a pistol related malfunction, not that I can't get a bad round of ammo at some point).

All semi-automatics can malfunction, as there are plenty folks that make questionable choices in their use.

For instance, I never run full mags in my semi-autos, (their always downloaded as in 7 rnds in 8 rnds [1911] mags, 9 rnds in 10 rnd [g30] mags, or 12 rnds in 13 rnd [g21] mags) why? I want 100% reliability outta my semi-autos and have enough faith in my ability to hit what I'm aiming to justify the loss of one round.

Some folks buy cheaper mags, again sacrificing reliability.

Other folks are just "limp" wristed.

There are many reasons why semi-autos can FTF/FTE, very few of these reason apply to revolvers, which explains my choice above and the undistputed champion of your topic as posted.

Food for though, next time ya go to word your post......

Mike
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:40:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
Is the USP Tactical single stacked or double? I just want something that feels comfortable.

My glock 27 has never once failed in any manner.



It's a double.

Try the SIG P220, if you can find one to rent / borrow. It's a nice little shooter.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:44:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 11:46:06 AM EDT by VBC]
Believe it or not, even revolvers will fail and fall apart or lock-up when you need them the most. Especially when they've got some rounds through them.

Anything mechanical can break. It's less common with a revolver, but more unexpected. It keeps shooting like nothing's the matter until it goes kaput.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:45:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 11:48:12 AM EDT by jackal2001]

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
FWIW, the most reliable 45acp I've ever seen was a S&W Mod 625 wheel-gun/revolver.

To the best of my knowledge it has never failed to go bang, (as a result of a pistol related malfunction, not that I can't get a bad round of ammo at some point).

All semi-automatics can malfunction, as there are plenty folks that make questionable choices in their use.

For instance, I never run full mags in my semi-autos, (their always downloaded as in 7 rnds in 8 rnds [1911] mags, 9 rnds in 10 rnd [g30] mags, or 12 rnds in 13 rnd [g21] mags) why? I want 100% reliability outta my semi-autos and have enough faith in my ability to hit what I'm aiming to justify the loss of one round.

Some folks buy cheaper mags, again sacrificing reliability.

Other folks are just "limp" wristed.

There are many reasons why semi-autos can FTF/FTE, very few of these reason apply to revolvers, which explains my choice above and the undistputed champion of your topic as posted.

Food for though, next time ya go to word your post......

Mike



Yes I understand all those factors. I also only buy factory handgun mags for the gun it was intended. I also downgrade the ammo per mag by 1 round. Try jamming 10 rounds in a glock 27 mag. It isn't that easy and I wouldn't trust my life on it. I don't shoot limp wristed. My girlfriend a long time ago kept jamming a Beretta 92F every round. I was like "that thing never jammed, what did she do to it." She was just limp wristing it.

I am not talking about people being the factor. I want to know about what is the most reliable .45 out of the box in peoples experiences. In other words, if the gun was bolted to some sort of wall mount or something, which ones would perform better than others without FTF or FTE or other things.

Seems like most people here say H&K, Sig, Glock.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:47:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 11:48:00 AM EDT by VBC]
Even limp wristed, your gun should cycle. If it doesn't you're at a tactical disadvantage because you're not always going to be in a squared off stance with locked wrist when you shoot at a bad guy.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:55:27 AM EDT
The USP compact grip is quite thin really. Sounds like the gun you're after. You can also get an aftermarket threaded barrel if you want a can. You might also consider waiting to see the HK45. It's supposed to use an elongated compacted mag-- so it should be nice and thin.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:57:17 AM EDT
FWIW, steel framed autos like the Government Model are almost impossible to limp wrist.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:08:01 PM EDT
HK USP Compact in .45 ACP

The fullsize USP .45 ACP is too big for you from what you describe. HK is one of the best, if not the best of the mass produced gun makers. HK supplies nearly every nations military with arms and even more law enforement agencies around the globe. They didn't get all of those contracts from being the lowest bidder, they got it from making top notch guns that perform each and every time they are called upon. As they say, in a world of compromise, some don't. HK USP Compact would be an excellent choice.

However,

If a doublestacked gun is too large for you, you may want to try the SIG P220. It is a single stacked gun and is very nice as well. Keep in mind, SIGs do not have very good re-sell value, so you might just want to save a few hundred dollars and pick up a used copy.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:21:05 PM EDT
Take a look at Bigbore's thread about his GLOCK 21.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:25:08 PM EDT
no problems with my HK USP. mine is a .40, but I expect the same in any caliber they make. the compacts are not really that compact ,though. Maybe look at a P2000 sk if you want a smaller package.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:33:33 PM EDT
I know this may or may not help but here is my grip on a beretta 96 .40.

I like the overall length but wouldn't go longer. My .45 Colt is thiner because of the single stack mag, but is a little shorter as well.

I may try out the USP Tactical and see how it feels.

Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:52:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 12:54:00 PM EDT by MTNmyMag]
Glock G21 if some one would be so kind as to post a hot link (because my computer fu is weak0 to to the greatest Glock torture test of all time which is chronicled on this board I am sure it well quell all other questions.

AR15.COM :: Forums :: Topic :: Glock Test - condensed into initial post

This link doesnt work sorry
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:57:46 PM EDT
SIG P220

LB
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 1:02:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 1:06:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:
HK USP Compact in .45 ACP

The fullsize USP .45 ACP is too big for you from what you describe. HK is one of the best, if not the best of the mass produced gun makers. HK supplies nearly every nations military with arms and even more law enforement agencies around the globe. They didn't get all of those contracts from being the lowest bidder, they got it from making top notch guns that perform each and every time they are called upon. As they say, in a world of compromise, some don't. HK USP Compact would be an excellent choice.

However,

If a doublestacked gun is too large for you, you may want to try the SIG P220. It is a single stacked gun and is very nice as well. Keep in mind, SIGs do not have very good re-sell value, so you might just want to save a few hundred dollars and pick up a used copy.



They used to have good resale, but there's so many CPO Sigs on the market right now at decent prices, it's harder to sell a used one.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 1:10:18 PM EDT
glock, imo holds the edge--mechanically and bigbore's thread only reinforced its relialbility stats
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 1:17:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stasher1:

Originally Posted By Burkey:
HK USP Compact in .45 ACP

The fullsize USP .45 ACP is too big for you from what you describe. HK is one of the best, if not the best of the mass produced gun makers. HK supplies nearly every nations military with arms and even more law enforement agencies around the globe. They didn't get all of those contracts from being the lowest bidder, they got it from making top notch guns that perform each and every time they are called upon. As they say, in a world of compromise, some don't. HK USP Compact would be an excellent choice.

However,

If a doublestacked gun is too large for you, you may want to try the SIG P220. It is a single stacked gun and is very nice as well. Keep in mind, SIGs do not have very good re-sell value, so you might just want to save a few hundred dollars and pick up a used copy.



They used to have good resale, but there's so many CPO Sigs on the market right now at decent prices, it's harder to sell a used one.



But they do not have a good re-sell value. What is wrong with what I said?
Makes you wonder why the secondary market is so flooded with users getting rid of their SIGs
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 2:03:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:
HK USP Compact in .45 ACP

The fullsize USP .45 ACP is too big for you from what you describe. HK is one of the best, if not the best of the mass produced gun makers. HK supplies nearly every nations military with arms and even more law enforement agencies around the globe. They didn't get all of those contracts from being the lowest bidder, they got it from making top notch guns that perform each and every time they are called upon. As they say, in a world of compromise, some don't. HK USP Compact would be an excellent choice.

However,

If a doublestacked gun is too large for you, you may want to try the SIG P220. It is a single stacked gun and is very nice as well. Keep in mind, SIGs do not have very good re-sell value, so you might just want to save a few hundred dollars and pick up a used copy.



I have an H&K USPc .45 in Stainless and I love it. It is reasonable in size to CCW as well. The only problem I have had is with the original H&K mag that came in the box. I get a FTF/FTE on the last round once in a while. I have since replaced the factory spring with a Wolf +10 but lost 1 round. I can force the 8th round in but it is still too tight. I have it in the safe with 8 rounds trying to compress the spring down. I have 4 other mags so it is really not an issue.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 2:06:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 2:14:35 PM EDT by LVMIKE]
One of the things I've noticed with my USP 45F is that the feeding of the weapon is SMOOTH. When I release the slide, I can follow it home with a full mag (more force required to strip it from magazine) of JHPs and it will go into full battery. As far as reliability goes, the USP has alot more to break then the Glock 21. The HK has many more small parts in the trigger assembly and firing pins are somewhat prone to breakage (I've broke one, they aren't hard to replace.) The Glock 19 I owned was very similar in feeding. Hard to say between the two (I don't shoot SIG's well, personally)... But any of the choices you are getting should be very reliable pistols if in good mechanical condition. Since all of these pistols will be accurate and reliable, I think the real question now is which do you shoot the best.

I'll say this, my next purchase is a new G19 to replace the 2nd gen. I sold and afterwards a USP 45C.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:51:21 PM EDT
nobody has mentioned the ruger p90 or p97. both are single stack and the latter has a polymer frame. the p97 has been replaced in the catalog by the p345 but even after ~3 years on the market a lot of people are still having problems with them. if you talk to ruger owners you will find a whole bunch of people who have never had a jam due to the pistol. the only time i have ever had problems with my p95 is due to an aftermarket 30rd mag and i needed to file down and bend out the feed lips a bit.

i have no idea if either of them can be suppressed as i don't know of any aftermarket barrels for rugers. then again they are also to be had for under $500 anywhere.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:58:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By aaronrb204:
nobody has mentioned the ruger p90 or p97. both are single stack and the latter has a polymer frame. the p97 has been replaced in the catalog by the p345 but even after ~3 years on the market a lot of people are still having problems with them. if you talk to ruger owners you will find a whole bunch of people who have never had a jam due to the pistol. the only time i have ever had problems with my p95 is due to an aftermarket 30rd mag and i needed to file down and bend out the feed lips a bit.

i have no idea if either of them can be suppressed as i don't know of any aftermarket barrels for rugers. then again they are also to be had for under $500 anywhere.



Agree with the P90. Mine has been 100% reliable, something none of my 1911's could ever say.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:01:21 PM EDT
IIRC 45 USP compacts have been discontinued (i hope i'm wrong..i'd like to get one) ... compare the fat grip of an HK to the 'mushy' trigger of a Sig ... i chose HK
happy shopping !
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:53:16 PM EDT
Sig 220 or 220ST
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:37:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:

Originally Posted By Stasher1:

Originally Posted By Burkey:
HK USP Compact in .45 ACP

The fullsize USP .45 ACP is too big for you from what you describe. HK is one of the best, if not the best of the mass produced gun makers. HK supplies nearly every nations military with arms and even more law enforement agencies around the globe. They didn't get all of those contracts from being the lowest bidder, they got it from making top notch guns that perform each and every time they are called upon. As they say, in a world of compromise, some don't. HK USP Compact would be an excellent choice.

However,

If a doublestacked gun is too large for you, you may want to try the SIG P220. It is a single stacked gun and is very nice as well. Keep in mind, SIGs do not have very good re-sell value, so you might just want to save a few hundred dollars and pick up a used copy.



They used to have good resale, but there's so many CPO Sigs on the market right now at decent prices, it's harder to sell a used one.



But they do not have a good re-sell value. What is wrong with what I said?
Makes you wonder why the secondary market is so flooded with users getting rid of their SIGs




There's nothing wrong with what you said. I agree completely. I was simply explaining why they no longer have good resale value.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 5:43:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 5:44:03 PM EDT by BSheppard]
I have some of what every one is telling you to buy so I will give you my take. My USP has never failed and is IMO the best bang for the buck. My Glock is as reliable but has all the shape and personality of a 2X4. I also have a few 1911s and the Ed Brown is reliable and my favorite .45 to take to the range. It is all up to what you want and what you will put up with. Some people will love the Glock for the combination of $400.00 price and as reliable as the guns costing two to three, hell even 4 times as much. YMMV
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:11:46 PM EDT
if you can comfortably shoot a beretta, a full size hk will be ok. get a tactical.
you can find some good packages for what your looking to spend. they also hold their value reasonably well. ive run about 4K rounds through mine, only a few failures to lock fully. never any fte. gotta keep em clean.
wilson makes a chamber brush that is ss and a little oversized. a must have for any 45.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:31:50 PM EDT
The only way to do it is get them all.

Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:07:28 AM EDT
Sig 220 or a Ruger P series.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 2:08:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
FWIW, steel framed autos like the Government Model are almost impossible to limp wrist.




I've tried my best to limp wrist my G19, including holding it only with my thumb and index finger, and I can't get it to malfunction.

Not scientific, just an observation.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 2:36:24 AM EDT
Glock 21
HK
Quantico Precision Weapons built MEUSOC 1911
SIG 220 (if kept well lubed)

In that order.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 4:09:02 AM EDT
I just checked the specs on both the USP Tactical and my Beretta 96 and they are not that much different in size.

The only thing that has me concerned is the actual grip. As I really like my Colt with Hogue and thinking about changing out my berettas for a hogue, the USP seems to lack a good grip. Now I can't confirm this since I haven't held one, but it doesn't look to comfortable or easly managed.
Anyone confirm or deny this?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 4:34:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gotm4:


Quantico Precision Weapons built MEUSOC 1911




Uhh, where do you find those??? Is that only a military deployed firearm? If so, it shouldn't be on the list.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 4:54:00 AM EDT
From a reliability standpoint I would pick the Glock, I have never had any FTF or FTE or any other type of malfunction with any of my Glocks. Bigbore definately shed some light on the Glocks ability to fire under extreme conditions. Remember the HK that failed his (bigbore's) test?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 5:11:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By johndoexu:
From a reliability standpoint I would pick the Glock, I have never had any FTF or FTE or any other type of malfunction with any of my Glocks. Bigbore definately shed some light on the Glocks ability to fire under extreme conditions. Remember the HK that failed his (bigbore's) test?



Please post a link to this. I didn't see it.
Thanks
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 6:12:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
I just checked the specs on both the USP Tactical and my Beretta 96 and they are not that much different in size.

The only thing that has me concerned is the actual grip. As I really like my Colt with Hogue and thinking about changing out my berettas for a hogue, the USP seems to lack a good grip. Now I can't confirm this since I haven't held one, but it doesn't look to comfortable or easly managed.
Anyone confirm or deny this?



I like the USP grip. It's textured pretty thoroughly. Hold that baby tight and it feels great. It's easy to hang onto even when you're sweating bullets.

Now, if you're the type who has to have finger grooves, you won't like it. You can slip a hogue up over it though.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:08:10 AM EDT
I'd go with the USP first, either a Compact or Fullsize depending on which model fits your hand. Personally I own and like both. The gun's been tested, a lot. IMHO it's one of the best handguns currently made.
Sig 220. Smooth shooting, nice grip. It's alittle heavy, but that shouldn't be an issue for you. I'm not a fan of DA/SA triggers. That's really the only thing I don't like about the Sigs.
Glock 21/30. The grip feels huge. I know it's not much bigger than the USP Fullsize, but it just doesn't feel as good in my hand. I'm not a Glock hater, my next handgun's probably going to be a G19.

I'd go with one of those three. Try them and see which one feels better to you. Perosnally I've never had a malfunction with any of those brands.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:24:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jackal2001:
I just checked the specs on both the USP Tactical and my Beretta 96 and they are not that much different in size.

The only thing that has me concerned is the actual grip. As I really like my Colt with Hogue and thinking about changing out my berettas for a hogue, the USP seems to lack a good grip. Now I can't confirm this since I haven't held one, but it doesn't look to comfortable or easly managed.
Anyone confirm or deny this?



The grip on my USP Fullsize .40 S&W feels great. The checkering is rough enough to not hurt your hand, but it will still stay in your hand. If for some reason you do not like the grip, add a houge handall grip and that will make it feel really similar to the other houge grips.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:23:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 1:24:51 PM EDT by CFII]
G30
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 1:41:58 PM EDT
Since you asked for the most reliable, there is ONLY ONE ANSWER. (also happens to be one of the most accurate too...not a bad combination...)

Pictures speak a thousand words...so here ya go



If you're wondering what comes up right after the MK23 in terms of reliabilty...(and yeah, accuracy too...)



If you can handle a Beretta comfortably, you can handle both of those just fine. They're not that bad. The MK23 doent weigh much more either. Never understood what people bitched about.

Grips aren't bad either. They're not contoured to your hand, but its a fucking combat handgun. Its made to point naturally, and not shift around in your hand. And it does those two things VERY well.

Glock 21 probably comes in after these guys, then probably Sig. 1911's would probably be right up there with Sigs as long as you get one thats put together properly. My Kimber has given me ZERO problems.
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