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Posted: 1/31/2006 10:37:03 PM EDT
How can I convince my (nothing bigger than a 22) parents to let me get a 9mm Springfield xd?. I've already tried to tell them that it's nothing but a larger diameter 22 but they just wont bite(what gives?).
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:39:04 PM EDT
How old are you?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:47:02 PM EDT
Oh yeah sorry about that. I'm 13 trying to get it for my 14th in a cuple months.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:53:33 PM EDT
Don't know what to tell you, just keep trying to convince them.

Try this -

"It's an XD dad, its not gonna blow up in my hand like a Glock. No need to worry about that."

Maybe they are saying no to the 9mm cause they know that only the .45 auto is good enough to own.


Its up to you to convince them though, if they wont have any of it, you migh thave to settle for something else.



Link Posted: 1/31/2006 11:08:30 PM EDT
actualy as far as firearms go my mom is more wiling to listen then my dad
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 11:28:24 PM EDT
tell them that a handgun is no different than any other gun....you won't get hurt if you train properly and follow safety precautions. That's all I can think of......have your Mom take you to a handgun range somewhere and rent a 9mm. Have her watch you shoot it and have her shoot it. Maybe she will figure out it's not that scary. Otherwise man......well I didn't get my first handgun until I was 21. I'm 25 now and have a veritable arsenal of handguns and rifles, so all good things come to those who wait buddy.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 12:06:35 AM EDT
My parents were cool with any rifle I brought home. Not cool with pistols. Forbid me to get one while I loved under their roof.

Moved out to college, and I now own 3.

Some parents are set in their ways with pistols. Often times it's just best to respect their wishes than push the subject or worse, go behind their back and disobey them(granted it'd be a little tougher in this situation due to federal laws prohibiting the sale of pistols or ammo to minors).

As was said, good things come to those who wait.

And I might add, I just picked up a Walther P22. While it's only a cheap little pistol, I haven't been this excited since I got my USP . Looks to be a fun and cheap to shoot pistol.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 1:14:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 1:15:18 AM EDT by Colt_SBR]
You won't like my answer to you.

Be happy with a nice, quality .22lr pistol or rifle. Learn to shoot with it and practice as much as you can. I have two .22lr pistols and one rifle. They're great fun to shoot and cheap to feed.

The bigger caliber handguns will still be there when you get older.

___________________________


Link Posted: 2/1/2006 1:36:05 AM EDT
try talking them into buying you a 9mm carbine: kel-tec, ruger, beretta, etc. they might be a little more receptive to that idea. then when you are 16 you can get your pistol.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 1:39:53 AM EDT
You won't want to hear this , but I'm going to say it anyway
Your 13 years old . No matter how grown up you may feel .
Your not . Kids your age make mistakes in judgment . It's part of
growing up that you won't understand for about 15 more years .

Your parents are undoubtedly doing this to protect you whether
you believe it or not , and I agree with them .

Now without starting too much of a debate as to the danger of
firearms . I will say this . It's easier to negligently shoot yourself
with a handgun then it is with a rifle , just by virtue of size .

My son is 17 and I've taught him about firearms and their safe handling
since he was 7-8 years old . He is free to shoot any handgun I own as long
as I am there while he's doing it . It's not that I don't trust him . It's more
the fact that I understand that shit happens . So to that end It's my job
as his father to do EVERYTHING in my power to prevent that . Even if he
doesn't always see it that way .
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 2:49:29 AM EDT
Personally I'd get a P22. I bet you could convince them of that. Its a fun little plinking gun. Besides you can't carry the XD anyways so imo there is no purpose in having it at this time. Besides once you get the P22, you can convince them that you need a Silencer to save your hearing
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:05:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 3:06:18 AM EDT by pyro6988]
I got my first pistol around that age. It was a ruger 22/45 .22LR.

I can't give you any advice for convincing them. My parents bought it for me without much asking. My dad had his FFL back then dealer cost was $170 IIRC.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:12:49 AM EDT
Try to negotiate and set an age limit that is close in the future (like 15 or 16).
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:25:34 AM EDT
I would rather have a .22 pistol!

You can have loads of .22 plinking fun and by the time you are "ready" in your parents eyes for any larger caliber you will already be a seasoned handgunner. If you get a 9mm now you will shoot it alot less just because the difference in ammo cost.

What are you waiting for !?!?! Get it and go have fun !

LB



Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:12:23 AM EDT
Are you spending your owned money that you've earned like through baby-sitting and mowing lawns?

How about getting a S&W Model 41? Or how about a S&W Model 17 22LR revolver? Man, don't sneeze at the 22LRs. I gurantee that those guns will never decrease in value. My M41, which I bought 20 years ago for $400, can probably be sold for at least $500. I've spent hours and thousands of rounds of 22LR over the past few years. My 22LR are one of my favs, and I had all kinds of firearms.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:43:48 AM EDT
Prove to them that you are responsible and mature. Do your homework, get good grades, do the house work they assign you - do it all without complaint and to the best of your ability on time.

If you complain, skylark or argue; you should expect them to think you are not mature enough to have a handgun. Pretty simple, really.

G
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:13:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 5:20:32 AM EDT by ar-for-me]

Originally Posted By chrome1:
You won't want to hear this , but I'm going to say it anyway
Your 13 years old . No matter how grown up you may feel .
Your not . Kids your age make mistakes in judgment . It's part of
growing up that you won't understand for about 15 more years .

Your parents are undoubtedly doing this to protect you whether
you believe it or not , and I agree with them .

Now without starting too much of a debate as to the danger of
firearms . I will say this . It's easier to negligently shoot yourself
with a handgun then it is with a rifle , just by virtue of size .

My son is 17 and I've taught him about firearms and their safe handling
since he was 7-8 years old . He is free to shoot any handgun I own as long
as I am there while he's doing it . It's not that I don't trust him . It's more
the fact that I understand that shit happens . So to that end It's my job
as his father to do EVERYTHING in my power to prevent that . Even if he
doesn't always see it that way .



+1

if i was the parents, i may go ahead and get you a 9mm but you could bet that it would be in my safe unavailable to you at all times unless i was with you and ready to go to the range. your gun but in my custody. (until a later age of my choosing) no offense.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 3:49:10 PM EDT


"You'll shoot your eye out".

Sorry, someone had to say it.

______________________________



Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:05:41 PM EDT
When I was 13 my dad bought a Beretta 92FS that i picked out. But he kept it in his safe unless we went out shooting togeter. But when I turned 21 my dad gave it to me as my birthday present. And i now carry it for my CCW. I also agree and say to just try to get a 22 pistol for plinking. And then buy a larger pistol caliber when you are old enough for it.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:12:20 PM EDT
Maybe you should stop trying to convince them "it's just a bigger .22".

Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:24:41 PM EDT
Do either of your Parents Hunt or actively Target shoot?

Is there a Handgun in the Household already?

At 13 you need someone to Mentor you in your shooting.

If not a Parent , then a Grandparent or Uncle with shooting experience.

Instruction by an NRA certified Instructor would go a long way in showing your Parents you are
mature enough to be trusted with Supervised use of a Pistol.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 5:35:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
"It's an XD dad, its not gonna blow up in my hand like a Glock. No need to worry about that."

Maybe they are saying no to the 9mm cause they know that only the .45 auto is good enough to own.



You're such a pain in the ass.


master935: You know your parents better than we do, so do what ever works for you. Although I must agree that if you are using your own money on this project a .22 might not be as bad as you think it is. The 9mm and others will come soon enough, a .22 can be a great way to teach yourself the fine skills of shooting.

Give us some shooting background on you.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:51:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jollyroger:

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
"It's an XD dad, its not gonna blow up in my hand like a Glock. No need to worry about that."

Maybe they are saying no to the 9mm cause they know that only the .45 auto is good enough to own.



You're such a pain in the ass.




I certainly try to be
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:55:09 PM EDT
Well in answer to all the Q's about the "are you spending your own money" yes I am, and also no my parents don't have any pistols or any rifles that are bigger than 22lr... but they have a 20ga shotgun. But I can most likely get a 9mm after I pass my GED which I can take only after I tern 16, but I can probably work out the 22lr pistol thing. And does anyone know if I can get a Walther p22 for less than $543?. As for every one else, thank you for all your help in this matter.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 6:59:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By master935:
nd does anyone know if I can get a Walther p22 for less than $543?.



Oh hell yes. You can almost get two of them for that much money. They only go for around $300 or less around here.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:09:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:

Originally Posted By master935:
and does anyone know if I can get a Walther p22 for less than $543?.



Oh hell yes. You can almost get two of them for that much money. They only go for around $300 or less around here.

really where do you live, or is it an online store cause that would be much better
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:14:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By master935:

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:

Originally Posted By master935:
and does anyone know if I can get a Walther p22 for less than $543?.



Oh hell yes. You can almost get two of them for that much money. They only go for around $300 or less around here.

really where do you live, or is it an online store cause that would be much better



La Grande, Oregon. No, he doesnt have an online store at all. I know he has at least 5 of them in stock right now. Just see how much they cost to order through a local FFL, or find an online store that will transfer one to wherever you are in Idaho.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:16:03 PM EDT
Where do YOU live master935? In Boise at the Sportsmans Warehouse they have them for between $250-$350.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 7:33:35 PM EDT
No I live in sandpoint ID. Does anyone know wether a sig masquito is better than a walther p22?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 3:13:30 AM EDT
I would ask them what would prove you are responsible. Maybe if you held a job and got all As for a semester or something like that.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:08:02 AM EDT
get an FN FiveseveN.... it's just a glorified 22 magnum!
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:13:10 PM EDT
I'm sorry, but I'd have to side w/ your parents here. I guess the only way I would allow and son or daughter of mine to have a gun at that age at all was if I kept it locked up somewhere. Good luck though.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:10:15 AM EDT
Myabe this is a Noob comment, but I thought that you had to be 21 in order to own a pistol. I hope im wrong because I'm 19 and I want to get one for practice purposes.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:41:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyBoyforLife:
Myabe this is a Noob comment, but I thought that you had to be 21 in order to own a pistol. I hope im wrong because I'm 19 and I want to get one for practice purposes.



i'm pretty sure that laws for firearms (w/ rifles/shotguns usually less restrictive than HGs) vary from state to state

in MS you just have to be 21 to buy...but not to own

oh, master935: i have to agree just be happy w/ what you can get right now

if you really want that XD, not only should you show more responsibility (As and stay in school and all that) and respect to your parents, i would say that spending your OWN money on the XD (just let em get it for you) would be a nice convincing booster (if you cant save up enough, get a job)


Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:09:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 8:14:58 AM EDT by BushmasterGuy77]
master935,

Not every person is the same or has the same maturity level. Back when I was 7, I fired a Colt SP1 for the first time in my life, changing everything for me forever. My parents saw that I had a high respect and understanding for firearms and what they were capable of doing. When I was 12 they let me get a 9mm Pistol (I paid for it with my own spending money from my paper route) and they did the lovely paperwork. They even allowed me to keep it loaded in my bedroom just incase anything bad ever happend. When I turned 14, I was given the Colt SP1. When I turned 15, I paid for my next two rifles (A Bushmaster XM15 and a Springfield M1A). You don't have to convince them for anything but that your Mature enough to handle and own firearms. If they believe that your not mature enough, then respect them for it and move on. ALWAYS Follow the rules of Firearms handling, no matter what. If all you can get is the .22 at the moment, then get it... You have plenty of more years down the road to buy firearms. Learn everything you can, whenever you can.

It's pretty sad. Acouple weeks ago when I was at the local gun shop (doing the FBI check for my USP), there was a man in his mid 20's looking to buy a Glock pistol. I kept telling him to learn to keep his finger off the trigger, even if the gun is unloaded. But even then he kept his finger on the trigger like a tard. I just hope he doesn't learn the hardway. So, even some "adults" are foolish. just show your parents that you are better than that.



Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
Don't know what to tell you, just keep trying to convince them.

Try this -

"It's an XD dad, its not gonna blow up in my hand like a Glock. No need to worry about that."

Maybe they are saying no to the 9mm cause they know that only the .45 auto is good enough to own.


Its up to you to convince them though, if they wont have any of it, you migh thave to settle for something else.






lol... You rock.

Nathan
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 2:42:33 PM EDT
master935, I agree with these guys on getting a 22 pistol. 9mm ammo is drastically more expensive than 22 and in a semi-auto pistol, that makes a BIG difference, especially if you're 13/14 and buying your own ammo. Think about it, it's $9 for 50 rounds of 9mm (or something close to it) versus $8 for 550 rounds of bulk federal .22. If you enjoy shooting, the 22lr is going to get you more trigger time than a 9mm. Get proficient with a 22 pistol, really proficient. When you're old enough, a 9mm (or a nice .45 ) would be a great present to yourself. As for trying to sway mom and dad, don't do it. Their house, their rules, and they have your best interests in mind. Don't let the caliber of handgun become a point of friction between you.

The P22 is a great, inexpensive pistol and I'd recommend it to you. My son is 6-1/2 and he shoots mine just fine, but at the same time, the gun is big enough to fit my hand comfortably (and I'm 6'4", 255 pounds).

Good luck, and SHOOT SAFE!!!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:06:25 PM EDT
I didn't even get to fire a gun until I was 14. I assume since you mention that they own rifles and a shotgun that you've shot with them-- that would be the key. Once I finally got my dad to take me shooting, he realized that the evils he saw in shooting just don't exist. Show enthusiasm and a willingness to accept a compromise.

I suggest you negociate an age in the future (probably 16) when you can. I didn't get my first handgun until I was 18, but still today I have plenty (2 are .22s though-- if your folks are OK with a .22, then by all means get one to both practice and prove to your parents that handguns aren't only for criminals.) When I turned 21 in January and got my CCW, the proudest part was that my Mom of all people get hers at the same time. Be patient, and you'll be surprised how good parents can be.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:51:44 PM EDT
hoestly i would wait becuase you couldent even take it out without parental figure around anyways. i got my first handgun a couple months ago when i turned 18 and i still cant carry it unless im GOING to/from shooting. rifles and shotguns on the other hand i think you can carry them when your 16 as long as you have a hunting license or shooting range membership or you know what you could do it convice him to buy it for himself then you would get to shoot it, i guess. whatever you do i would suggest reading you state laws and printing them out in case a cop asks about it. everyone here in washington seems to think you have to be 21 to own a handgun when you dont.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 10:02:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chrome1:
You won't want to hear this , but I'm going to say it anyway
Your 13 years old . No matter how grown up you may feel .
Your not . Kids your age make mistakes in judgment . It's part of
growing up that you won't understand for about 15 more years .

Your parents are undoubtedly doing this to protect you whether
you believe it or not , and I agree with them .

Now without starting too much of a debate as to the danger of
firearms . I will say this . It's easier to negligently shoot yourself
with a handgun then it is with a rifle , just by virtue of size .

My son is 17 and I've taught him about firearms and their safe handling
since he was 7-8 years old . He is free to shoot any handgun I own as long
as I am there while he's doing it . It's not that I don't trust him . It's more
the fact that I understand that shit happens . So to that end It's my job
as his father to do EVERYTHING in my power to prevent that
. Even if he
doesn't always see it that way .



Master935
Re-read this wise post again. And by the way, what a blessing to have a son/daughter so hungry to shoot!
Learning
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 12:45:43 PM EDT
I'll pop in here with a recommendation previously mentioned... check out some of the "Neat" .22s Smith and Wesson 622 is a pretty sharp and IMO accurate pistol to shoot. The P22 is nice and if you'd really like a 9mm its a good substitute, buy the 22 now and then in a few more years pick up a P99 in 9mm or a 40 and you'll have the same feel/style of pistol and still have the inexpensive 22 for plinking... Unless you're just insanely rich then just buy it all ;)

I love shooting my 7mm Remington mag, but damn I can shoot all day with a 10/22 for what 1/2 a box of the 7mm costs... i.e. almost 20 bucks for 20 of the 7mm and picking up a box of Federal 550 22s for under 10 bucks.

I know when I was 13 I bought a heck of a lot of 22s for a few lawns. I mean big is fun and all but what fun is it if all it does is sit in the closet.

Justin
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 1:10:30 PM EDT
I would try to convince them to get a .22 pistol first. Show them that you are responsible with that Show them that you can follow ALL firearm safety rules, and can take proper care of a pistol. After you've shown that you are responsible enough to own a pistol, I would try for the 9mm, or something bigger by then, maybe.
You always have to start small and work your way up.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 1:39:36 PM EDT
Get a Glock frame and a 22 lr upper. Maybe for your 15th birthday you will be able to get a 9mm upper.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 7:31:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Still-Learning:

Originally Posted By chrome1:
You won't want to hear this , but I'm going to say it anyway
Your 13 years old . No matter how grown up you may feel .
Your not . Kids your age make mistakes in judgment . It's part of
growing up that you won't understand for about 15 more years .

Your parents are undoubtedly doing this to protect you whether
you believe it or not , and I agree with them .

Now without starting too much of a debate as to the danger of
firearms . I will say this . It's easier to negligently shoot yourself
with a handgun then it is with a rifle , just by virtue of size .

My son is 17 and I've taught him about firearms and their safe handling
since he was 7-8 years old . He is free to shoot any handgun I own as long
as I am there while he's doing it . It's not that I don't trust him . It's more
the fact that I understand that shit happens . So to that end It's my job
as his father to do EVERYTHING in my power to prevent that
. Even if he
doesn't always see it that way .



Master935
Re-read this wise post again. And by the way, what a blessing to have a son/daughter so hungry to shoot!
Learning



+1....very good advice!
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 7:46:19 AM EDT
I was 30 before I got my first handgun. i'm 48 now.. and I stillhave it, a Ruger single six .22

I have others now, but I still shoot the Ruger more than the rest.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 7:53:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chrome1:
You won't want to hear this , but I'm going to say it anyway
Your 13 years old . No matter how grown up you may feel .
Your not . Kids your age make mistakes in judgment . It's part of
growing up that you won't understand for about 15 more years .

Your parents are undoubtedly doing this to protect you whether
you believe it or not , and I agree with them .

Now without starting too much of a debate as to the danger of
firearms . I will say this . It's easier to negligently shoot yourself
with a handgun then it is with a rifle , just by virtue of size .

My son is 17 and I've taught him about firearms and their safe handling
since he was 7-8 years old . He is free to shoot any handgun I own as long
as I am there while he's doing it . It's not that I don't trust him . It's more
the fact that I understand that shit happens . So to that end It's my job
as his father to do EVERYTHING in my power to prevent that . Even if he
doesn't always see it that way .



Yep.
Save your money kid, or at least buy a .22LR pistol
Besides - you won't be able to buy ammo for it until you are 18 anyway.
Sit back and enjoy being a kid.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 10:31:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By chrome1:
You won't want to hear this , but I'm going to say it anyway
Your 13 years old . No matter how grown up you may feel .
Your not . Kids your age make mistakes in judgment . It's part of
growing up that you won't understand for about 15 more years .

Your parents are undoubtedly doing this to protect you whether
you believe it or not , and I agree with them .

Now without starting too much of a debate as to the danger of
firearms . I will say this . It's easier to negligently shoot yourself
with a handgun then it is with a rifle , just by virtue of size .

My son is 17 and I've taught him about firearms and their safe handling
since he was 7-8 years old . He is free to shoot any handgun I own as long
as I am there while he's doing it . It's not that I don't trust him . It's more
the fact that I understand that shit happens . So to that end It's my job
as his father to do EVERYTHING in my power to prevent that . Even if he
doesn't always see it that way .



Yep.
Save your money kid, or at least buy a .22LR pistol
Besides - you won't be able to buy ammo for it until you are 18 anyway.
Sit back and enjoy being a kid.



I know this sounds hard because I know how bad you want a good hand gun. I wanted one at your age too. My dad let me have the 22LR to shoot but I had to wait till 21 to buy my 1st hand gun. Time flys and you will be of age soon enough. Enjoy being a kid for now!
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 10:34:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyBoyforLife:
Myabe this is a Noob comment, but I thought that you had to be 21 in order to own a pistol. I hope im wrong because I'm 19 and I want to get one for practice purposes.



Federal law states that to purchase a rifle from a FFL you need to be 18, 21 for a handgun. However there is no federal law about owning the handgun and the laws tend to vary state to state. In many states an 18 year old can buy a handgun as long as it is not from a FFL.
Link Posted: 2/20/2006 6:25:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2006 6:27:26 AM EDT by desertmoon]
master935...as some have said, keep up the good grades, do your chores and be the best damn kid you can be...even if it kills you. It is showing THIS kind of responsibility that MAY ( note the key word: MAY ) change your parents minds someday.

I was brought up in a very strict household, yet because I really busted ass at being a good kid, I have been shooting larger caliber handguns since I was about 8 years old and when I was 11 or 12 years old I had a few to myself, including a Smith and Wesson Model 29, .44 magnum revolver. My late best friend and I were always roaming around the farm on weekends with the 44 mag revolver, his 1911, his Mini 14 and my M1 cabine....yet, at the same time we NEVER lost the love of the good ol 22 long rifle. We spent gagillions of hours shooting our 22s when we just couldn't afford enough powder, projectiles and primers to feed our big gun habits. Yes, we were even reloading at that age....before God saw fit to bring down from heaven the Dillon 550, which Mike Dillon had scribed the bluprints to, as God saw fit to shew him. Amen...errr, sorry, got lost in the memories....

Anyhow, my best friend and I were lucky because our dads were great friends and they loved guns as much as we did.

Doing cool family stuff is always fun, try to get yer dad and mom to shoot with you and maybe go to an ARFCOM shoot in your locality and have the guys turn dad onto some cool toys.....(this can never hurt!!!!)

Hell....get him to join this wacky site.....

errr....but if that gets you into trouble....forgive me.....

So, be good and good luck!!!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 5:18:58 PM EDT
or you could get a beretta neos. It looks kinda spacey but is accurate as hell.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:30:56 PM EDT
Hey don't feel too bad, I didn't get my first gun till i was 16. It was a Marlin 22 rifle. It wasnt until I was 18 that I got anything else. Anyhow, I'm 22 and now have a pretty decent collection. Just reason with them as much as you can, and prove to them that you are a responsible young man. It may just take some time. Patience is a virtue.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:24:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By adair_usmc:

Originally Posted By master935:
nd does anyone know if I can get a Walther p22 for less than $543?.



Oh hell yes. You can almost get two of them for that much money. They only go for around $300 or less around here.


I got my P22 for about 275 including tax....I prefer to shoot it at the range over my G26 and XD40...1000 rounds of .22 for 15 bucks or 1000 rounds of 9mm for 110 bucks.....same fun, less price.

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