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Posted: 1/18/2006 4:57:00 PM EDT
Whats up everyone,

I am new to this forum and can't pull away. Actually I am new to the tactical world and am loving it. I just recently purchased a beretta vertec and want to doctor it up a little. I was looking at the CTC grips and also the M6 or the m6x, but cant decide which one. What do you guys think? Any personal experiences or opinions are welcomed. Thanks

Jay
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 5:06:31 PM EDT
i have a railed 1911 with a light and a pair of CT grips. it is my bedside piece and it performs well on the range but i read some things recently that kind of turned me off about the CT grips. check out the latest issue of SWAT, theres a head-to-head comparison of the CT and the Laser max unit.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:41:57 PM EDT
Before buying lasergrips for my Beretta M9 I had the chance to compare them to the Lasermax system. The lasermax replaces the recoil guide rod and the slide takedown lever. The laser is not a constant beam, but rather pulsating. They say this is more effective and it increases battery life.
This is important for the lasermax as its difficult to turn off and on rapidly. You must leave it on if the gun is in use as you aren't likely able to turn it on in a hurry should you need it. Light discipline is very important, and this feature alone is undesirable, IMO. The laser is located in an area subjected to great stress and heat from the cycling action of the weapon. Lasermax lasers are getting more durable, but they are still succeptible to failure from stress. The only thing I like about the lasermax is that its very discrete and doesn't change the general profile of the weapon and is practically unnoticible. All of these disadvantages coupled with a high price tag make other options much more appealing.
I opted for the lasrgrips for my Beretta. Lasergrips can be turned on and off at a moments notice very easily. The beam is constant, rather than pulsating and the laser is on the grips which is away from the weapons action. The rubber wrap around grips are also very comfortable and are a huge improvement upon standard Beretta grips. They are also much cheaper than the lasermax and adjustible for windage/elevation. It probably won't be necessary as mine were right on out to 50 yards from the factory. Battery life is 4 hours of constant use, though I have found batteries last quite a while depending on how you use them. Batteries are also very easily changed, much easier than the lasermax. I highly reccomend the lasergrips, as I feel they are the best option for mounting a laser on the Beretta.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:44:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 7:48:19 PM EDT by GoingIncognito]
I never liked the LaserMax. I've found them to be more difficult to use, and I'm not a fan of the pulsating beam even if it does give you longer battery life. I always thought that the Crimson Trace grips would be kinda lame, but after seeing/using them I was sold. Here's a link to a picture of my Nighthawk GRP Recon with the Crimson Trace grips and the Surefire X200 weaponlight. The laser is activated by a pressure switch under the trigger guard, where your middle finger naturally rests while holding the pistol. VERY easy to use, and a nice strong and bright dot.

Nighthawk GRP Recon (Crimson Trace Grips and Surefire X200 Weaponlight)

Edit: Just as a further information for your perusal, this info can be readily found on the respective companies sites and/or factsheets elsewhere-

Crimson Trace lasergrips have a 633 nm 5 mW max power, while LaserMax is a 635nm 3mW max power. Both are Class IIIa devices and direct eye exposure is dangerous, and the wavelength difference isn't a real issue (however the output mW is of note). The Crimson Trace is just plain visually brighter.

Crimson Trace can be seen in bright daylight up to 45 feet (15 yards), while the LaserMax has an effective range of only 10-12 feet (3.3 - 4 yards) in daylight. In general, though, these types of lasers do not work as well in bright sunlight. Just noting a the effect the difference in brightness has.

Crimson Trace are factory set for POI at 50 feet (16.6 yards), and are user adjustable for windage and elevation, while LaserMax are set for POI at 60 feet (20 yards), and are NOT adjustable, with the exception of the 1911 and shotgun styles.

However, the pulsating beam of the LaserMax is a bit more "Attractive" to the eye, and the internal design doesn't change the exterior dimensions of the gun at all.

I don't think you can go wrong with either one, really, but I prefer the CTC.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 3:14:38 PM EDT
Does the laser protuding on the side of the grip affect holster selection? Not trying to hijack the thread hock.gif but just another issue i am considering.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 4:55:56 PM EDT
Neither. A laser is a toy, nothing more. I can buy a good bit of ammo for practice for what a laser would cost.

My .o2
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:50:56 PM EDT
A laser is a tool.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 6:50:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 6:51:14 PM EDT by GoingIncognito]
I tested my Crimson Trace grips outside in the sun today...I had no trouble seeing the dot on a tree 15 yards away....Wonder if any of my neighbors saw .
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 10:23:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ThEWayOftheGUn1:
Does the laser protuding on the side of the grip affect holster selection? Not trying to hijack the thread but just another issue i am considering.



I have a Para Ord 7.45 ( 1911 clone except for LDA) and it fits every holster made for a 1911 clone.
I've had my CT laser for over 2 years. i've had to use the little Q-tip to clean the lense ~4 times or so. I have about 1000 rounds threw the gun.
no problems with LaserGrips.
the off/on switch is almost automatic. tighten grip and laser comes on. low carry it's off, come up on target and it's on,
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 7:28:19 AM EDT
I have CC on a 1911 and I love them. I don't think they are toys! Most of us are average shooters, add darkness, aukward position (in a car, on the ground) and scared shitless they could save your life! Just my observation.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 9:44:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arteacher:
I have CC on a 1911 and I love them. I don't think they are toys! Most of us are average shooters, add darkness, aukward position (in a car, on the ground) and scared shitless they could save your life! Just my observation.




Very true.
Better to have it and not use it then to need it and not have it.
Link Posted: 1/22/2006 12:43:26 PM EDT
There was a guy in the range yesterday with a fancy laser module on his Walther. He was firing at 15 yards and did, occasionally hit the target. All over the target.

A laser can be a tool for a marksman but it is not a substitute for trigger control. If you can fire accurately at reasonable distances, this may be an advantage. If you are looking for an instant solution to your accuracy problems, you're in the wrong department.

A laser-equipped gun does not...........a marksman make.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:04:17 PM EDT
I think lasers are more of a tool for snubbies. I have been considering the same thing but for a snubby. Of all the articles I have read and reviews with snubbed nosed revolvers, I think that it would be in the best interest of me to buy foremost for my wife. Secondly for me. Our revolver is our primary home defense weapon and although I have a semi with night sights I think ct will be a good investment.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:36:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arteacher:

Most of us are average shooters,



All the more reason to learn how to use the front sight, sir.



add darkness, aukward position (in a car, on the ground) and scared shitless they could save your life! Just my observation.


While you're watching that little red dot, the perp is shooting at you, probably hitting you. A laser is THE worst crutch a shooter can have, IMO.

My .02
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 4:37:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 4:39:08 PM EDT by BobCole]

Originally Posted By Msokol13:

Better to have it and not use it then to need it and not have it.





And when you've become totally dependant on it & it dies on you, what then sir? Do you honestly think Mr. Murphy leaves guns alone?????
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:54:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By Msokol13:

Better to have it and not use it then to need it and not have it.





And when you've become totally dependant on it & it dies on you, what then sir? Do you honestly think Mr. Murphy leaves guns alone?????



One should never become completely dependant on an electronic sight. It merely makes for ease of shooting in some situations, and quick target acquisition in others. Beyond that, it's damn fun . Besides, one of the best points of a laser sight is that it can add another "point" to your cease and desist request.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:04:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:

Originally Posted By Msokol13:

Better to have it and not use it then to need it and not have it.





And when you've become totally dependant on it & it dies on you, what then sir? Do you honestly think Mr. Murphy leaves guns alone?????



Please explain to me then why it is that SWAT and other tactical CQB groups use lasers on their weapons? Also, you seem to have the impression that when I use a laser all of the shooting techniques I have learned over the years from trained professionals who actually have had to take peoples lives goes right out the window.
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