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Posted: 1/2/2006 11:08:03 AM EDT
I am looking for a home def. pistol and possibly a USPSA shooting pistol. I have a SW 4013 that I
love. Due to a left hand injury it is hard for me to actuate the slide reliably with the extra spring
weight for the .40. I lose grip strength as I close my hand. On something large I have much
strength. The smaller the radius the more loss there is.

After shooting several and looking at many I find the normal 9mm springs give me no trouble. Also
the safety levers slide mounted assist a lot and will add to reliability for me.

Below I have a list of requirements and preferences for my primary pistol. I am leaning toward the
poly Ruger. It seems to meet all my requirements. Lower cost. Domestic. I am also familiar with
the P series shooting my buddy's steel version several times.

Does anyone have any comments, suggestions, experience to share, etc...?
Especialy with the Ruger Poly! Thanks Gang!

-------------------------
Pistol Must Have Features
-------------------------
9MM (Economy of shooting & I have .40 SW4013)
Black (Or Not Stainless e.g. SW4013)
Slide Safety Decocker (Due to left hand injury
this is easiest for me to operate slide with.)

------------------------
Pistol Preferred Features
------------------------
Light Rail (Target ID)
Polymer Frame
>15 Rd Capacity
Cockable Spur trigger
Easy Takedown

---------------------------------
Possible that meet all categories
---------------------------------
9mm "Baby" Desert Eagle Pistol Poly 499-
www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=MR9915RSL
www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=BEP821
www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=BEP320
www.magnumresearch.com/Expand.asp?ProductCode=MAG915
Anyone have any exp with this thing?

Beretta Px4 Storm 630-
www.berettausa.com/product/product_pistols_main.htm
Costs as much as the carbine. +Parts and mags interchange with the Carbine.

Ruger P95PR15 445-
www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=13015&return=Y
Hard to find? Impossible to order. +I do like the P Line in Steel.
Any .22LR kits for the P line? Does it work with the Poly?

----------------------------------
Possible that meet most categories
----------------------------------
SW910
www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&langId=-1&productId=14817&tabselected=tech&isFirearm=Y&parent_category_rn=15712

SW3913 (Black No?)
www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=14702&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15712&isFirearm=Y

SW908
www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=12754&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15712&isFirearm=Y

Beretta 92
www.berettausa.com/product/product_pistols_main.htm
www.berettausa.com/product/product_pistols_main.htm

Beretta Cougar (Black?)
Can't find this on their web site. Did they stop production?

Ruger P89TH $? Special Edition
www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=3005&return=Y

Ruger P89D15 475-
www.ruger.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=13002&return=Y
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:32:01 AM EDT
Try the HK Tactical .45
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:47:03 PM EDT
i have a ruger p95 and love it. i have an older model--no rail and non-pebbled grip. it is an excellent pistol. that is their only polymer framed 9mm. it also has the shortest barrel at 3.9". i don't know if that would be good enough for you as far as competition shooting. but it has always been more accurate than me. and because the recoil springs are captive, the takedown produces 5 pieces not including the mag: frame, slide, barrel, spring/cam assembly, slide stop lever. the slide of that pistol has always seemed very easy to rack. also the decocker is large and easy to manipulate vs the small levers on many other pistols. and most other pistols only have a safety on the slide while the ruger can be had in either.

yes beretta stopped making the cougar. iirc it was replaced by the px4.

the other rugers you mention have metal frames. but you can change out the grips. on the p95 you can only add a sleeve type grip.

have you thought about the springfield xd series? i have heard nothing but positive things about them. but if you require a decocker and hammer then they are out.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:55:01 PM EDT
Glock 17 or 34. You could shoot either in Production and it would still make a good defense gun for the home too.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:58:23 PM EDT
CPO Sig
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:21:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 5:46:05 PM EDT by KCMojo]

Originally Posted By charliehorse794:
Try the HK Tactical .45



Did you even bother to read? Then why......


Originally Posted By aaronrb204:
i have a ruger p95 and love it. i have an older model--no rail and non-pebbled grip. it is an excellent pistol. that is their only polymer framed 9mm. it also has the shortest barrel at 3.9". i don't know if that would be good enough for you as far as competition shooting. but it has always been more accurate than me. and because the recoil springs are captive, the takedown produces 5 pieces not including the mag: frame, slide, barrel, spring/cam assembly, slide stop lever. the slide of that pistol has always seemed very easy to rack. also the decocker is large and easy to manipulate vs the small levers on many other pistols. and most other pistols only have a safety on the slide while the ruger can be had in either.

yes beretta stopped making the cougar. iirc it was replaced by the px4.

the other rugers you mention have metal frames. but you can change out the grips. on the p95 you can only add a sleeve type grip.

have you thought about the springfield xd series? i have heard nothing but positive things about them. but if you require a decocker and hammer then they are out.



Hey thanks for the testimony on your P95. I don't need to be competitive, just possibly to compete. A bad day at the range beats a good day at the office.

I slipped down to Cabela's after the range today, and for 350- that was tempting. Only thing is it is out of state.

I do like the XD, but really need the slide mounted safety to reliably run the slide. That is why I no longer have the Glock 23. I loved the way that thing shot.


Glock 17 or 34...

No please first post above.

CPO Sig

No please first post above.

Yesh!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:43:49 PM EDT
How about the Beretta 92. It's not something "sexy," but they work very well and are reasonably accurate. They can be improved upon as well.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:01:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 6:02:55 PM EDT by KCMojo]

Originally Posted By wolffie:
How about the Beretta 92. It's not something "sexy," but they work very well and are reasonably accurate. They can be improved upon as well.



Yes I put the 92 on my Nearly all list. I do like the 92 except I have never liked the slide cutout exposing the barrel.

Possibly have also never gotten over the one I saw "disabled" by pulling the slide forward. Seeing the face of the 92 lover standing there with the slideless frame in his hand, priceless I bought the Glock that day.

Supposedly they have fixed this, but it did leave an impression.

If I go that route I know where one is at a good price. Used, but it has hardly been used. Great shape. I really like the takedown on it also. Nice.

I will probably own one at some point. Might not be this time around or as my primary. Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:04:33 PM EDT
baby eagle would be my choice of your options....

or the beretta 92, just b/c mags are easier to get hold of
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:14:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 6:17:35 PM EDT by gotm4]

Originally Posted By KCMojo:

Does anyone have any comments, suggestions, experience to share, etc...?
Especialy with the Ruger Poly! Thanks Gang!




If you have your mind made up why are you asking for "comments, suggestions, experience" ?



Originally Posted By KCMojo:
-------------------------
Pistol Must Have Features
-------------------------
9MM (Economy of shooting & I have .40 SW4013)
Black (Or Not Stainless e.g. SW4013)
Slide Safety Decocker (Due to left hand injury
this is easiest for me to operate slide with.)

------------------------



G17 and G34s are 9mm and black, you can get OD green. Glocks don't need decockers because when your finger is off the trigger they are decocked (putting a decocker on a Glock would be like putting a decocker on DAO S&W revolver). When you pull the trigger on a Glock your pulling the striker (firing pin) to the rear and releasing it, thus firing the pistol. When nothing is pulling on the trigger the firing pin is at rest and locked, YMMV. With weak hands a G34 would do you best with it's factory 4-4.5lb factory trigger pull. If the grip is too large you could send it off for a grip reduction but this would place you into Limited Minor (for USPSA). If this doesn't suit you go ahead with whatever you've already made you mind up with and use that.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:28:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 9:33:17 PM EDT by KCMojo]

Originally Posted By gotm4:
If you have your mind made up why are you asking for "comments, suggestions, experience" ?



I have not. I was looking for input. I was only leaning. I shared my unuque needs and findings so far. Perhaps someone knows or notices something I have not seen, notices, or thought of.


Originally Posted By gotm4:
G17 and G34s are 9mm and black, you can get OD green. Glocks don't need decockers because when your finger is off the trigger they are decocked (putting a decocker on a Glock would be like putting a decocker on DAO S&W revolver). When you pull the trigger on a Glock your pulling the striker (firing pin) to the rear and releasing it, thus firing the pistol. When nothing is pulling on the trigger the firing pin is at rest and locked, YMMV. With weak hands a G34 would do you best with it's factory 4-4.5lb factory trigger pull. If the grip is too large you could send it off for a grip reduction but this would place you into Limited Minor (for USPSA). If this doesn't suit you go ahead with whatever you've already made you mind up with and use that.



I dont need the decocker to decock the pistol. I am a right handed shooter. Injury is to left hand. The slide mounted safetys help with actuating/racking the slide reliably. The width of the grip is not an issue. Thanks anyway.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:35:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
baby eagle would be my choice of your options....



Do you have any exp. with this pistol? Thx
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:48:24 PM EDT
USP9

Polymer, decocker/safety, black, 15rd mag, light rail, one sweet shooter.....

May want to look into a match trigger

The USP does not meet you requirments for low cost or domestic, however I vote USP9 anyway.
Pick up a new one from cdnn for around $600

Happy shooting
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 1:18:36 AM EDT
+1 for the 92f .....and they are sexy
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:25:45 AM EDT
Glock 17 or 34

Springfield XD 9mm

Both would serve you well in USPA Production class, also Limited and L10, and also IDPA SSP and ESP.

Many of the pistols you list are not competitive as their DA/SA triggers are more difficult to use, they are ergonomically lacking, etc.



Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:39:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:25:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 7:26:22 AM EDT by wolffie]
Would a larger rear sight help with slide racking over a decocker? I'm a big fan of Glocks, but scratched them off the list because of that requirement. I love my Glock 34.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:56:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22Hertz:
USP9

Polymer, decocker/safety, black, 15rd mag, light rail, one sweet shooter.....

May want to look into a match trigger

The USP does not meet you requirments for low cost or domestic, however I vote USP9 anyway.
Pick up a new one from cdnn for around $600

Happy shooting



that's exactly what I was thinking as I read the thread. The slide is wide and that makes for easy racking, but doesn't have the safety on it to snag flesh. Its reliable and accurate as all hell. The trigger could use some work, but that's really the only down side and that can be improved with a match trigger install.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:20:44 AM EDT
The first gun I bought was a Ruger P95. My Dad has it now. Gun was/is reliable; no problems whatsoever. Its about 10 years old now with many thousands of rounds thru it.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:49:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 1:46:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KCMojo:


CPO Sig

No please first post above.

Yesh!



What about "first post above"?

Your "Must haves"
9mm-Sig? Check
Black-Sig? Check
Side safety decocker-Sig? Check

Your "preferred" features
Light Rail-Sig? Check (not on the CPO's though)
Polymer-Sig? Check
>15 round capacity-Sig? Check
Cockable spur trigger-Sig? Check
Easy Takedown-Sig? Check

So, yes I did "please first post above" and the Sig meets all of your requirements.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:19:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22Hertz:
USP9

Polymer, decocker/safety, black, 15rd mag, light rail, one sweet shooter.....

May want to look into a match trigger

The USP does not meet you requirments for low cost or domestic, however I vote USP9 anyway.
Pick up a new one from cdnn for around $600

Happy shooting



No slide mounted safety or decocker. So it is not an option as I stated. Thanks anyway.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:20:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SFF:
Glock 17 or 34

Springfield XD 9mm

Both would serve you well in USPA Production class, also Limited and L10, and also IDPA SSP and ESP.

Many of the pistols you list are not competitive as their DA/SA triggers are more difficult to use, they are ergonomically lacking, etc.



No slide mounted safety or decocker. So it is not an option as I stated. Thanks anyway.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:23:59 PM EDT
It's beginning to sound like you'd be best served with a S&W 686.


Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:26:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By meltdown:
Can you shoot with your left hand?
Sometimes you have to shoot with your left hand in USPSA.



No unfortunately that is not an option. As the radius decreases I lose finger strength in the left hand to the point I would not be able to actuate a trigger with the left hand. I know this would mean that I would be disqualified for those stages. Who knows if I try I may find a way to.

Bad day at the range beats a good day at the office. Just looking to have fun shooting and competing to the best of my meager abilities.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:28:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wolffie:
Would a larger rear sight help with slide racking over a decocker? I'm a big fan of Glocks, but scratched them off the list because of that requirement. I love my Glock 34.



No have spent time at the range with the Glocks. I liked my Glock too, but I have to swap hands to rack the slide.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:36:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jdessell:
The first gun I bought was a Ruger P95. My Dad has it now. Gun was/is reliable; no problems whatsoever. Its about 10 years old now with many thousands of rounds thru it.



Hey thanks! I have found many testimonials on other sited from P series owners. They aren't sexy, but they seem to elicit very quiet fondness with their owners. It seems the rugged reliability seems to overcome their warthog looks. One comment was that they are the A-10 of auto pistols. Not sexy but reliable hard hitting workhorses loved by their pilots.

I like the Berettas (Storm and 92), but I can not find anything to yet justify the 200-300 extra cost for me yet.

Can I ask why your dad has it not you?
Do you have another Ruger?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:36:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/vanilla_gorilla911/226.gif



No slide mounted safety or decocker. So it is not an option as I stated. Thanks anyway.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:38:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 3:54:57 PM EDT by KCMojo]

Originally Posted By Trumpet:

Originally Posted By KCMojo:


CPO Sig

No please first post above.

Yesh!



What about "first post above"?

Your "Must haves"
9mm-Sig? Check
Black-Sig? Check
Side safety decocker-Sig? Check

Your "preferred" features
Light Rail-Sig? Check (not on the CPO's though)
Polymer-Sig? Check
>15 round capacity-Sig? Check
Cockable spur trigger-Sig? Check
Easy Takedown-Sig? Check

So, yes I did "please first post above" and the Sig meets all of your requirements.



I am confused where is the slide mounted safety or decocker on the SIG that I can grab to help rack the slide. Am I missing something? Thanks!

Sorry for the 'yesh'. Thought I had explained my situation well enough, but I must not have. Thanks for the input.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:16:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 4:17:26 PM EDT by Trumpet]
ahhh missed the slide mounted decocker.

Can you not make do with a frame mounted one? That would open your choices up considerably. Is it a matter that the slide mounted decocker just gives you more purchase?

The only ones I have had experieces with were the OLD Ruger P85's. It was the first pistol I owned and by far the biggest POS. I've heard that the P95's are quite an improvement though.

Also, I was serious about the revolver comment. I wouldn't overlook a good ole' 686, or better yet a 625.

R
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:10:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KCMojo:

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:
i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/vanilla_gorilla911/226.gif



No slide mounted safety or decocker. So it is not an option as I stated. Thanks anyway.




Sorry, I missed that part. I was close though...
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:37:50 PM EDT
Sig
you can drop the slide easy with your hight had thumb
the slide release is far back unlike other guns
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 5:49:06 AM EDT
Me and one other person suggested the USP. That doesn't have a slide mounted safety/decocker, but there is a reason for that. I see what you're trying to do. The protrusions help you grip the slide and therefore, make it easier to rack it with a weakend left hand. Well, the advantage of the USP is that the slide is VERY bulky and wide and has very effective and wide serrations. Due to the bulk of the slide, the recoil spring isn't as stout as smaller guns, further easing slide racking. Its something to take a look at.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 6:16:45 AM EDT
How about a Beretta 92G, 92G Elite II or a 92G Vertec. The G models have a slide mounted decocker but spring back up after decocking on their own. If you used an FS model you might accidently know the lever down which would make it not fire when you pulled the trigger.

The new Beretta PX4 Storm still has a slide mounted decocker/safety but can be converted to a G model by a certified Beretta armorer. You just leave out 1 spring and 1 detent from the slide assy. The PX4 has a light rail and a polymer frame.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:46:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 6:13:38 PM EDT by KCMojo]

Originally Posted By Trumpet:
ahhh missed the slide mounted decocker.

Can you not make do with a frame mounted one? That would open your choices up considerably. Is it a matter that the slide mounted decocker just gives you more purchase?

The only ones I have had experiences with were the OLD Ruger P85's. It was the first pistol I owned and by far the biggest POS. I've heard that the P95's are quite an improvement though.

Also, I was serious about the revolver comment. I wouldn't overlook a good ole' 686, or better yet a 625.

R



Yah no problem. Yes the safety on the slide does give me more 'purchase' when racking the slide.

Yes I have thought about revolvers. Just not as my go to gun when things go bump. I have seen a 686 recently that I really like. With the left hand injury the less often I need to reload the fewer things can go wrong in a worst case scenario. Thanks!


Originally Posted By TraumaLevel1:
Sig
you can drop the slide easy with your right had thumb
the slide release is far back unlike other guns



Problem is not with right thumb. The slide release is not an issue. Otherwise how do you release the slide with your left hand anyway? Assuming you shoot right handed. That seems very awkward. haha. Thx


Originally Posted By cliffy109:
Me and one other person suggested the USP. That doesn't have a slide mounted safety/decocker, but there is a reason for that. I see what you're trying to do. The protrusions help you grip the slide and therefore, make it easier to rack it with a weakened left hand. Well, the advantage of the USP is that the slide is VERY bulky and wide and has very effective and wide serrations. Due to the bulk of the slide, the recoil spring isn't as stout as smaller guns, further easing slide racking. Its something to take a look at.



I have looked at the USP. It still does not have the reliability in the pull that I can get from say SW and Rugers. Especially the fat ass wide ruger with the safety mounted on the fat ass slide plus the jagged radical serrations in front of the levers.


Originally Posted By gotm4:
How about a Beretta 92G, 92G Elite II or a 92G Vertec. The G models have a slide mounted decocker but spring back up after decocking on their own. If you used an FS model you might accidentally know the lever down which would make it not fire when you pulled the trigger.

The new Beretta PX4 Storm still has a slide mounted decocker/safety but can be converted to a G model by a certified Beretta armorer. You just leave out 1 spring and 1 detent from the slide assy. The PX4 has a light rail and a polymer frame.



I like both the 92 and the Storm. Just cant find a reason for the extra $$$ yet. I prefer the FS safety like on my SW. I have no problem and experience sweeping the safety with the thumb upon draw with the SW. Has become a natural movement for me. Almost the same as sweeping the safety on the AR. I can't do the cocked and locked with the Ruger and Sw decocker, but I would rather have the Safety to just a decocker. Just my pref.

Well thanks for all the help folks. I haven't completely talked myself into the Rugers, but I am farther away from talking myself into one of the others for the money.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:24:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/6/2006 6:27:53 AM EDT by jakevas]
Hello KCMojo. Looks like I am a little late to the game. I have a PX4, and I wouldnt trade it for any of the above guns you mentioned? Not sure if you looked around, but you can get a PX4 for about $450-530. Same Beretta quality as a 92fs. So far I have fired around 1000 rds of cheap CCI Aluminum through mine. Not one FTF, FTE. I accidently dropped it one time in some fine dirt, thought I was going to have to quit for the day, but it functioned through another 150 rds with no problem.

Not sure if you have already decided on something or you are still looking?
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 6:29:19 AM EDT
Lots of the tuned 1911s have very light springs and I've seen people charge them with one finger like Steven Seagal You get one running right and it'll work great for both purposes.
Link Posted: 1/6/2006 7:06:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jakevas:
Hello KCMojo. Looks like I am a little late to the game. I have a PX4, and I wouldnt trade it for any of the above guns you mentioned? Not sure if you looked around, but you can get a PX4 for about $450-530. Same Beretta quality as a 92fs. So far I have fired around 1000 rds of cheap CCI Aluminum through mine. Not one FTF, FTE. I accidently dropped it one time in some fine dirt, thought I was going to have to quit for the day, but it functioned through another 150 rds with no problem.

Not sure if you have already decided on something or you are still looking?


I looked at one of these over the weekend. I did like it. Hey thanks for the testimonial. I am waiting to by based on some job offers and a opportunity in a merger deal that is pending. I will buy one (?) to celebrate! Until then I research, listen, etc... Thanks!


Originally Posted By Dusty_C:
Lots of the tuned 1911s have very light springs and I've seen people charge them with one finger like Steven Seagal You get one running right and it'll work great for both purposes.



Thanks Dusty, I will look into to that. Probably on my next purch. My wife also need to feel really comfortable with it. She is not ready for a 45-. a 1911 would probably be a 'race' gun for me. One day I will do that. Until then I need to become a better shooter and expand my fun budget. Thx!

Link Posted: 1/6/2006 10:23:16 AM EDT
Hey thanks! I have found many testimonials on other sited from P series owners. They aren't sexy, but they seem to elicit very quiet fondness with their owners. It seems the rugged reliability seems to overcome their warthog looks. One comment was that they are the A-10 of auto pistols. Not sexy but reliable hard hitting workhorses loved by their pilots.

I like the Berettas (Storm and 92), but I can not find anything to yet justify the 200-300 extra cost for me yet.

Can I ask why your dad has it not you?
Do you have another Ruger?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the time I gave it to my Dad, he really needed a hand gun due to some things going on. And by that time I had aquired more handguns ; begining my collection. I let him look at my collection and pick out the one he liked. I was very comfortable with him picking the Ruger, knowing its reliability, and ease of use. That was about 5 years ago. I have accepted the fact that the gun is not coming back to me , and really dont mind . I mean , He's my Dad.

Other Rugers - only a 10/22 , but I plan on buying another P95, or P89 soon within the next few months, and NO ONE is borrowing this one
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