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Posted: 12/27/2005 6:56:35 PM EDT
Why would anyone use 9mm Wolf that goes for $95/1000 when you can get Hirtenberg 9mm +p for $149/1200? Wolf 9mm is underpowered too anyways isn't it? Just a thought...
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:12:01 PM EDT

Uhh . . . . . because that's a $54 dollar difference??

That's another mag or two for the Glock, or a couple boxes of +P 124gr. Golddots??

Because they're both FMJ rounds anyway?

My Glocks and Berettas feed both wonderfully?


I dunno?
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:48:14 PM EDT
I mean I'm not bashing Wolf...but Hirt is great ammo...at least in 7.62 NATO... and the extra 200rnds of Wolf to make each case have 1200rnds would bring the $95 up to $115 or so. I guess you're right about the mags and all...but that makes it a $35 difference, which isn't too bad for the quality difference.
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 7:54:06 PM EDT

Ahhhh . . . . . I didn't pay attention to the "1200 rds" of Hirt.


Still a 35 dollar difference! (j/k)
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:51:24 PM EDT
for me, money is scarce--$35=more ammo

now mulitiply that x 10, and it becomes $350...
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:54:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 8:56:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TREETOP:
Winchester white box 9mm is $112/1000 at wallyworld, I trust it over Wolf in my firearms.



WWB is the only way to be for me for high-volume practice. *shrug*
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:20:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2005 9:22:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2005 9:23:07 PM EDT by David_Hineline]
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:21:36 AM EDT
I shoot the crap out of .223 Wolf, but it's better ammo and it's considerably cheaper than any brass cased alternative.

Not so with their pistol ammo. I can get Blazer or WWB for the same price, or so close to it as to not make it worth the effort.

Plus, it's dirty as hell.

Wolf .22? Great
Wolf High Power? Great
Wolf 5.56? Workable
Wolf Pistol Ammo? Ehhhh....
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:41:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Same people who marry ugly smelly women would shoot Wolf ammo.



That's no way to talk about the Arfcom general population.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:12:50 AM EDT
I get 9mm CCI Blazer for $3.86 per 50 round box at Academy Sports. Figure it out. Thats just over $77 per thousand rounds. Aluminum cased is all. A LOT lighter!
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:23:00 AM EDT
Don't know about 9mm, my only experience with that is through some else's Mac-10. Of course I couldn't evaluate accuracy or cleanliness with that weapon. I sometimes use Wolf .45 ACP through my Sig 220 and 1911 and it works fine. Never had a malfunction with it and it shoots good. Dirty as anything, but that's why they make Hoppe's 9 and bore brushes. MJD
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:34:34 AM EDT
Wolf is fine for an AK or SKS, but I won't shoot that stuff in my AR or pistols. There are plenty of cleaner (and better smelling) alternatives.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 7:39:01 AM EDT
cause for going to the range, to keep familiar practive with the weapon.... they go bang with every pull, at 7 yards or less (21 ft rule) I can hit center mass, so what if the groups are wider than the carry ammo I use.

Money saved goes to more ammo for more shooting or even better...MORE GUNS.

maybe after I set up a reloading press, I'll switch to some cheap brass ammo so start my brass supply then reload.... til then... The Wolf howls.

As for the smell... WTF is that about? And don't you clean your guns after each range trip anyway?

No Expert
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:27:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:
I shoot the crap out of .223 Wolf, but it's better ammo and it's considerably cheaper than any brass cased alternative.

Not so with their pistol ammo. I can get Blazer or WWB for the same price, or so close to it as to not make it worth the effort.

Plus, it's dirty as hell.

Wolf .22? Great
Wolf High Power? Great
Wolf 5.56? Workable
Wolf Pistol Ammo? Ehhhh....



For the 9x18 caliber in the Makarov, Wolf is great! Agree in the rest though.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 9:47:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 9:55:07 AM EDT by beavis1]
I have one friend who even reloaded Wolf .223 cases to see if he could.
Same people who marry ugly smelly women would shoot Wolf ammo.


is his wife as you described?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:11:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chucksredvette:
I get 9mm CCI Blazer for $3.86 per 50 round box at Academy Sports. Figure it out. Thats just over $77 per thousand rounds. Aluminum cased is all. A LOT lighter!



Ditto. It is impossible to beat this price. CCI is a lot better than wolf for a lot cheaper.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:03:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TREETOP:
Winchester white box 9mm is $112/1000 at wallyworld, I trust it over Wolf in my firearms.



+1

...and I can drive there and pick up more whenever I need it. I don't see any reason to use anything else for practice ammo in my 9mm's.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:05:25 PM EDT
Its cheap and works 100% in every calibre I've tried. Thought that was sufficient.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 12:20:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 12:20:55 PM EDT by Colt_SBR]
My brother is thinking of selling his 9mm guns. He has about 7,000 rounds of Winchester white box 9mm. Guess who's going to make a large 9mm ammo purchase, very soon.

<­BR>
____________________________


Link Posted: 12/28/2005 1:49:07 PM EDT
What is that extra 35 or even 50 bucks per 1000 worth? How about accuracy? It is physically impossible for Wolf to be as accurate as brass cased ammo such as Win White Box. Why... when the round goes off, the expanding gas pushes out on the brass sealing it to the chamber allowing a consistant push on the bullet down the barrel. Wolf steel case can not do this so they coat it with laquer or now polymer to do the job. The heat expands and melts the paint and it seals to the chamber. This is why test always show a lot of variation on Wolf and the like. So is it possible you burn up a clip or two at target you would have hit with better ammo?

What is your hourly rate. Lets say it is $45 per hour. How long cleaning the crap (vaporized paint) out of you firearm does it take until you have eaten up the money you saved. You could be using that time to reload and make better ammo for less money.

Hey, to me it is like motorcycles.. it is better to ride what you can afford than to not ride because you want a 30k bike. Just don't kidd yourself into thinking you are getting a great deal.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 2:25:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FreeAmerican:
What is that extra 35 or even 50 bucks per 1000 worth? How about accuracy? It is physically impossible for Wolf to be as accurate as brass cased ammo such as Win White Box. Why... when the round goes off, the expanding gas pushes out on the brass sealing it to the chamber allowing a consistant push on the bullet down the barrel. Wolf steel case can not do this so they coat it with laquer or now polymer to do the job. The heat expands and melts the paint and it seals to the chamber. This is why test always show a lot of variation on Wolf and the like. So is it possible you burn up a clip or two at target you would have hit with better ammo?

What is your hourly rate. Lets say it is $45 per hour. How long cleaning the crap (vaporized paint) out of you firearm does it take until you have eaten up the money you saved. You could be using that time to reload and make better ammo for less money.

Hey, to me it is like motorcycles.. it is better to ride what you can afford than to not ride because you want a 30k bike. Just don't kidd yourself into thinking you are getting a great deal.



No offense, but I don't think you've ever shot any polymer Wolf.

I've shot 1,500 rounds of .223 at one range session, and there wasn't ANY residue in the chamber other than normal shooting "soot". And, the soft metal of the case DOES expand into the chamber. If it didn't, then gas would blow back by the loose case, sending hot gas into the breech face and into the chamber, which it does not.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:46:35 PM EDT
i have shot thousands of rounds of wolf .40 and its WAY more accurate then the brass coated bullets on the .40 WWB from walmart. the WWB with regular copper bullets is more accurate then wolf though, but they dont ever seem to have that.

every gun i own shoots wolf a majority of the time. wolf IS underpowered. i can HEAR the differnce when i mix and match the ammo in my mags. but its cheap and reliable and i shoot 15K+ rounds a year and im poor. so i get wolf.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:23:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I have one friend who even reloaded Wolf .223 cases to see if he could.



UHHHH and??? what happened>?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:29:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By swingset:
I shoot the crap out of .223 Wolf, but it's better ammo and it's considerably cheaper than any brass cased alternative.

Not so with their pistol ammo. I can get Blazer or WWB for the same price, or so close to it as to not make it worth the effort.

Plus, it's dirty as hell.

Wolf .22? Great
Wolf High Power? Great
Wolf 5.56? Workable
Wolf Pistol Ammo? Ehhhh....



For the 9x18 caliber in the Makarov, Wolf is great! Agree in the rest though.



Agreed!
I love the Wolf FMJ in my Makarov now that I got it feeding it reliably..

I'd rather shoot Barnaul as it just feels like a better balanced load/bullet weight for the gun but I saved a box of HP for Grins.

But the Wolf goes bang every time and seems to be more accurate than me (I've been shooting about 2 months so this isn't a joke)

I don't shoot their 9X19 though... no point.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 6:48:09 PM EDT
Why would I shoot wolf? Hmm....thats a hard one.....

1. Cheap
2. Don't care about the brass (autoloader)
3. Don't care about ultimate accuracy (plinking)
4. Cheap
5. Yes, It's dirty. Yes I am able to operate a cleaning rod and such.
6. The new stuff isn't laquer coated, so no more of that problem.

Yes, WWB is cheap too, and I use it also. But if I was going to buy bulk ammo for plinking, I'd use wolf when I didn't need a high degree of accuracy. My belief is that more practice is good, and wolf makes that easier on my wallet.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:21:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cms81586:
Why would anyone use 9mm Wolf that goes for $95/1000 when you can get Hirtenberg 9mm +p for $149/1200? Wolf 9mm is underpowered too anyways isn't it? Just a thought...



That Hirt +P+ 124gr ammo that Wideners and a few other places are selling for that price is EXTREMELY HOT high pressure subgun ammo, not intended for pistols... for starters...

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:23:07 PM EDT
I got a box just to shoot it to see how it was, I can find WWB on sale cheaper then Wolf
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:21:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By FreeAmerican:
What is that extra 35 or even 50 bucks per 1000 worth? How about accuracy? It is physically impossible for Wolf to be as accurate as brass cased ammo such as Win White Box. Why... when the round goes off, the expanding gas pushes out on the brass sealing it to the chamber allowing a consistant push on the bullet down the barrel. Wolf steel case can not do this so they coat it with laquer or now polymer to do the job. The heat expands and melts the paint and it seals to the chamber. This is why test always show a lot of variation on Wolf and the like. So is it possible you burn up a clip or two at target you would have hit with better ammo?

What is your hourly rate. Lets say it is $45 per hour. How long cleaning the crap (vaporized paint) out of you firearm does it take until you have eaten up the money you saved. You could be using that time to reload and make better ammo for less money.

Hey, to me it is like motorcycles.. it is better to ride what you can afford than to not ride because you want a 30k bike. Just don't kidd yourself into thinking you are getting a great deal.



No offense, but I don't think you've ever shot any polymer Wolf.

I've shot 1,500 rounds of .223 at one range session, and there wasn't ANY residue in the chamber other than normal shooting "soot". And, the soft metal of the case DOES expand into the chamber. If it didn't, then gas would blow back by the loose case, sending hot gas into the breech face and into the chamber, which it does not.



I didn't think we were talking about any other round than the 9mm Wolf. If the price diff on 223 is good for you so be it. The fact is the steel case is not as soft as brass and it can not seal as good as the brass. And yes some of it does blow back past the case, that is part of why this stuff is so dirty.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:40:38 AM EDT
Wouldn't use Hirt in a pistol because IIRC, it's extremely hot ammo intended for SMG's, not much point in using that as range ammo. Besides, KB's are nothing to joke about and any caliber can do it, check out the recent threads on the subject . I'd use Wolf for Makarovs and similar, also for any pistol that prefers/is designed for steel-cased ammo, anything else, I'd just get some run of the mill Winchester or Federal FMJ's to practice with.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:43:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 455SD:

Originally Posted By Chucksredvette:
I get 9mm CCI Blazer for $3.86 per 50 round box at Academy Sports. Figure it out. Thats just over $77 per thousand rounds. Aluminum cased is all. A LOT lighter!



Ditto. It is impossible to beat this price. CCI is a lot better than wolf for a lot cheaper.



Would hate to see what'd happen if you got a squib load or a overload in an aluminum case
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:55:08 AM EDT
I have used 9mm wolf in a my glock 26 w/o a problem. I gave my old boss (an ass but he was with his wife and his wife is friends with mine) some to shoot in my glock and there were alot of stuck cases. I took the weapn back shot 10 rounds and they all went boom and good to go at 10 yards. Limp wrist just like his limp **** but I have not way of noticing. Lives around the corner from me and still has my Star Trek DS9 season 5-6 dvds. Glad they are burned. I buy then I burn copies for me to watch. I dont want to spend another $120 per season thats a case of 9mm or .223 wolf.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:28:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FreeAmerican:
It is physically impossible for Wolf to be as accurate as brass cased ammo such as Win White Box. Why... when the round goes off, the expanding gas pushes out on the brass sealing it to the chamber allowing a consistant push on the bullet down the barrel. Wolf steel case can not do this so they coat it with laquer or now polymer to do the job. The heat expands and melts the paint and it seals to the chamber.



Wow! You guys are just going to let this go?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:31:50 PM EDT
Why wouldn't you use wolf?

Why WOULD you use 9mm?

<­BR>

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:36:39 PM EDT

Blazer is great until you figure out it won't function in one of your more expensive handguns

But works 100% in all my "lesser" handguns.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:00:08 PM EDT
For just going to the range, I use Wolf, CCI Blazer, Independence, and any other inexpensive ammo I can find. I enjoy telling people that I use Wolf, because ALL of my weapons function just fine with Wolf, and that seems to piss some people off.
Mainly, I use the "cheap" stuff because it leaves me with plenty of extra money to spend on my other toys.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:09:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 10:25:48 PM EDT by tangeant]
The Germans had no problems with steel case 9x19 ammo ........







Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:07:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 5:20:30 AM EDT by Melvin_Johnson]

Originally Posted By tangeant:
Germans had no problems with steel case 9x19 ammo ........



Niether did we with our steel-cased .45ACP.

Check HERE to see the truth about WOLF ammo!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:18:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FreeAmerican:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By FreeAmerican:
What is that extra 35 or even 50 bucks per 1000 worth? How about accuracy? It is physically impossible for Wolf to be as accurate as brass cased ammo such as Win White Box. Why... when the round goes off, the expanding gas pushes out on the brass sealing it to the chamber allowing a consistant push on the bullet down the barrel. Wolf steel case can not do this so they coat it with laquer or now polymer to do the job. The heat expands and melts the paint and it seals to the chamber. This is why test always show a lot of variation on Wolf and the like. So is it possible you burn up a clip or two at target you would have hit with better ammo?

What is your hourly rate. Lets say it is $45 per hour. How long cleaning the crap (vaporized paint) out of you firearm does it take until you have eaten up the money you saved. You could be using that time to reload and make better ammo for less money.

Hey, to me it is like motorcycles.. it is better to ride what you can afford than to not ride because you want a 30k bike. Just don't kidd yourself into thinking you are getting a great deal.



No offense, but I don't think you've ever shot any polymer Wolf.

I've shot 1,500 rounds of .223 at one range session, and there wasn't ANY residue in the chamber other than normal shooting "soot". And, the soft metal of the case DOES expand into the chamber. If it didn't, then gas would blow back by the loose case, sending hot gas into the breech face and into the chamber, which it does not.



I didn't think we were talking about any other round than the 9mm Wolf. If the price diff on 223 is good for you so be it. The fact is the steel case is not as soft as brass and it can not seal as good as the brass. And yes some of it does blow back past the case, that is part of why this stuff is so dirty.



Again, you don't know what you're talking about. It's dirty because of the type of powder used, not because of blow-by. Blow by would be a VERY dangerous condition, and if they used hard steel that didn't properly expand into the case walls, they'd be facing numerous lawsuits for destroyed guns and hurt shooters.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:19:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson:

Originally Posted By FreeAmerican:
It is physically impossible for Wolf to be as accurate as brass cased ammo such as Win White Box. Why... when the round goes off, the expanding gas pushes out on the brass sealing it to the chamber allowing a consistant push on the bullet down the barrel. Wolf steel case can not do this so they coat it with laquer or now polymer to do the job. The heat expands and melts the paint and it seals to the chamber.



Wow! You guys are just going to let this go?



Not a chance. See post above.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:01:18 PM EDT
WOLF ammo has been around for ten years or so but I'm still amazed at the number of people who continue to spout crap about a product they have never tried.

If WOLF ammo was actually bad for your gun we would have solid proof of damage. Yes, some guns won't feed it but I have yet to see pictures, etc of a firearm actually damaged from digesting the stuff. Some people, for whatever reason, just refuse to accept the fact that WOLF ammo is good stuff.

I have been using WOLF on and off for years. I shoot WOLF's 9mm load all the time. I have put over 5,000 rounds of it through my 1911 in less than 6 months. Where are the broken parts? Where are the failures to extract?

Okay. Let's say that WOLF does cause excessive wear. When will the wear become an issue? At 20,000 rounds? At 30,000 rounds? Many poeple claim that WOLF is hard on guns but nobody seems to be able to specify why it's bad or when problems will occur. Even if it does cause excessive wear after 20 or 30 cases, that's still more than most shooters will fire in a lifetime.
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