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Posted: 12/19/2005 3:53:51 PM EDT
I am going ot buy one of these fine guns and have done extensive searchs here and other istes about this gun , but would like to hear any info and see any pics you guys have. Are these guns pretty safe to use? my son who is 13 would like to get one also when he goes and shoots with me.

are they pretty reliable? another question i have is the ammo. ive heard there is sub gun ammo i should avoid. so what ammo should i buy that is readily available? is the s7b too hot to use? thanks for all the info you guys can give me.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 7:48:58 PM EDT
anyone?
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 8:01:42 PM EDT
I really enjoy shooting mine. S&B ammo is actually milder than what these pistols were originally designed for and is reloadable. I upgraded to a heavier recoil spring anyway. I haven't tried the FNM ammunition yet. It is supposed to be a little hotter than S&B but still within spec for a Tokarev, which is not as strong of a design. Makarov.com has a lot of information and carries a lot of new production and new old stock parts for very reasonable prices. About the only major safety concern is the decocker. DO NOT use the decocker on a loaded chamber without testing it for safety first. I would recommend not using it on a loaded chamber at all. The firing pins are cast steel and will break if dry-fired. Makarov.com sells new ones, as well as snap caps. I also had one of the locking rollers break, which tied up the gun. A set of new machined steel ones got me back in action again. With the new rollers and the heavier recoil spring my groups also shrank from 2 1/2" to 1 1/2" at 25 yards. This is the only problem I have had with my current pistol in almost 1K rounds. The one I had before had no issues at all and I really regretted selling it (hence the new one).

If your son is not very seasoned with centerfire handguns, it may be a little intimidating. The grip is fairly thin but rather long from front to rear and can be very uncomfortable for people with smaller hands. Recoil is not particularly heavy but muzzle blast is ferocious. Ejection is also very vigorous, throwing empties around 30 feet. I learned the hard way that this is not the best pistol to shoot on an indoor range. The empties bounced off the side of the stall and proceeded to hit me in the head. Hot flying brass with a fair amount of force hitting you in the side of the head is not conducive to accuracy!

Use the pencil test to check the decocker. First, remove the magazine and clear the chamber. Then double check the chamber. Point the pistol up and insert a pencil from the muzzle. You may have to try several to find a pencil that will fit freely down the bore. Retract the slide enough to see that the pencil is all the way through the barrel. (I know I am beating the chamber check to death but better safe than sorry.) Ease the slide fully forward and with the muzzle pointing up, pull the trigger. The pencil should jump and if the fit in the bore is fairly loose it will probably clear the muzzle. Reinsert the pencil, cock the hammer, and point the muzzle up again. Push the safety all the way up (past the SAFE position) and the hammer should drop. Observe the pencil while doing this. The pencil should not move. Repeat this test several times. If the pencil moves at all then there is enough wear in the mechanism to possibly cause a cartridge to fire if there is one in the chamber. If this is the case, you can either replace the sear or just treat the pistol as if it does not have a decocker, a la 1911. If the dealer you are buying from will allow it, test each one in stock until you find one that will pass this test. Then don't trust it anyway, because you can't predict when it will wear enough to become a problem.

I know it sounds like I don't like this pistol, but I really do. I'm even thinking of some custom work like replacing the military sights with some good ones that you can actually see. This is a gunsmithing/machining project and could wind up costing me more than I paid for the gun. Yes, I do like it that much.
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 9:15:05 PM EDT
thank you so much for the info, i look forward to getting one
Link Posted: 12/19/2005 10:11:08 PM EDT
Ii've had one for a long time, (13+ years?)
They are very reliable exept for the firing pin which breaks easily, especialy if you dry fire it (DON'T) without a snap cap. You would do well to get a spare FP.
The smg ammo fiasco was a few years ago. Just don't buy any ammo in pink boxes.
The recoil is nominal, the gun was made to shoot the hotter Czech ammo (1800FPS IIRC) so all regular 7.62 TOK is just fine including S&B.

All in all an excelent pistol, well worth the $$$.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 12:23:21 PM EDT
A very nice pistol. Mine has been reliable and plenty accurate. The down side is poor ergonomics and a stiff recoil. Very well worth the money they cost.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 2:23:50 PM EDT
I enjoy mine a great deal, opne has a new slide stop and firing pin in it, the other is bone stock. Both have had every kind of ammo I coudl find for it through it. The sub gun ammo was aminly a concern for the Tokarev pistols, and was alright to use in the '52 (though I may have heard wrong, it di dnot affect my pistols in any noticeable way, and both have a case through them, it is noticeably snappier though)


YMMV


Oh, I do suggest replacing the pin and slide stop (the slide stop can be replaced with one that actually has a thumb catch on it on you so decide.)


I iwsh I coudl make it not have the european mag catch though....
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:11:41 PM EDT
thanks for al the info guys, i went to makarov.com or what ever it was and they do have lots of parts if it does break, thanks again.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 3:30:39 PM EDT
Checking the chamber religiously is not a bad idea for any gun, but especialy this one. An accidental discharge would be a very bad thing. My friend Stretch and I are both chronic tinkerers. Not wanting to wait till our next range trip to try out a weapon after this or that modification, we have set up a test fire area in his garage (legal to shoot where he lives but we put it in the garage to lessen the disturbance to the closer houses). This consists of a layer of sandbags stacked against the back cinder block wall. stacks of old phone books in case we miss the primary target area and back up the primary target area which consists of multiple level IIA kevlar vests I picked up at a local gunshow for 20 bux each (police trade in, carriers were stained and nasty, panels were like new, should have bought them all instead of the six I did buy). We use this only to test for function of new guns and guns we have made modifications to, as the maximum distance is only about ten feet. Last weekend we test fired a CZ52 I had purchaced at the last gun show. Using what I believe is yugoslavian ammo, we stacked three kevlar panels together in front of a stack of six phone books. First round- nice little round hole in the center of the front panel, barely moving it. Apon examination, the round had completely pierced all three panels and two phone books, lodging about a half inch into the third. Thinking maybe we had hit a spot that had been weakened or perferated in a previous session, we used three never shot panels. One shot, same result. Placing a fourth panel on the stack did in fact stop it, it again pierced three through and through, made it about three quarters of the way through the fourth, putting a huge dent in the top phone book. We came away with a new respect for this "odd" little bottle neck round.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 5:11:20 PM EDT
geat guns,i have two! just replace the fireing pin.
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 6:38:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ky-medic:
geat guns,i have two! just replace the fireing pin.



Is there a strong aftermarket pin, thats out there that i dont have to worry about? or do i need to get several reg firing pins for the parts box?
Link Posted: 12/20/2005 8:25:48 PM EDT
there are strong firing pins available, th estock one is cast and is fragile esepcially towards dry firing, grab a steel or forged one..
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