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Posted: 10/11/2002 8:12:33 AM EDT
I see a lot of people are slamming Glocks on this site. It seems like either you love them or you hate them. I own a Glock and have no complaints. I've tried to keep an open mind and understand what people could possibly hate about this gun but am unable to come up with anything significant. It's operation is among the easiest just load the mag rack the slide and pull the trigger. No safety to manipulate or exposed hammer to get in the way. It's so f**king reliable it's not even funny. It field strips in two steps. Give me an example of a gun that field strips easier than a Glock. It's not the most accurate of pistols but is by no means inaccurate (my G27 out shot my P94 and it's barrel is almost an inch shorter). It has a very streamlined design not allowing itself to get hung up on anything and its simple design also gives it a very attractive look (just my opinion). It's been through torture tests that any other gun would have failed miserably. The Glock is like the AK of the pistol world. I am in no way trying to start an argument all I want to know is why you hate them? People who do not like them always just say they suck and never give any explanation as to why. So tell me why?
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 8:19:41 AM EDT
Most of us don't hate anything that reliably goes bang when you pull the trigger. I don't own a Glock, but they certainly go bang every time with very good reliability. I've been a 1911 guy for ever, but I have seriously been thinking about going over to the dark side lately[8D mainly for the lighter weight on my belt. I already have a USPC .45, so I really can't justify it at this point.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 8:53:43 AM EDT
It's a love/hate thing I suppose.

I have a G21 and when I wanted to get an other 45, I picked up a Para Ord LDA 14*45. Why, I liked the trigger of the Glock and wanted a 1911 that had a hi-cap option and a trigger (double action).
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 9:29:56 AM EDT
00_buckshot....what pistol when you rack the slide automatically puts the safety on?...my autos, all I do is rack the slide and pull the trigger also......the glocks are also not jam proof as you would like to think....My next gun will probably be a G20 which I have shot and like.....although the Dan Wesson Pointman in 10MM is getting a look..........
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 9:46:03 AM EDT
I hate the glocks because of the GRIP ANGLE.. other than that.. they are OK.. my HK's are better
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 12:33:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2002 6:22:35 PM EDT by Grock]
Glocks Suck, because when people buy them they stop buying other maker's products. I wanted to buy a Springfield 1911-A1, but seeing another Glock nearby, for almost 1/2 the price, I had to buy the Glock. This really sucks.




edeted kus I kaint speel
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 1:03:06 PM EDT

I don't hate them, dislike is a better term, for those who love them - go ahead - I love my guns too.

I just never liked the idea of the so called safe action where there is a safety in the trigger; the grip didn't fit my hand on the older models and now with the ridged front it is even worse.

To each his/her own!

CZ 100 may field strip faster/easier - but the gun itself while a polymer doesn't have the quality of a Glock.



Those who live by the sword are shot by those who do not.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 1:17:54 PM EDT
While I would get on, if it was for a good price, I don't feel safe carrying a cocked glock with the saftey it has.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 1:52:48 PM EDT
Just cause im an ass, a gun that field strips easier is the beretta 92/96 series ;-)
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 2:00:44 PM EDT
What other REAL gun can you wash in your dishwasher???

Why would you is another issue!
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 6:04:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2002 6:06:40 PM EDT by ED_P]
My main complaints as a former Glock owner- not Glock bashing, but the honest reasons I sold it to seek out other companies products closer to what I felt was a safe gun to handle/shoot.

1. No safety- that little inner trigger is not a safety. It is a hot potato to handle the second there is a round in the chamber. My personal preference is for a design with a trigger disconnect (like S&W semi autos and my new M92)

On other modern designs, you can have a chambered round and bring the gun down to a safer state with a click of the thumb, and a quick flick back up to be in action.

2. I like a traditional DA/SA action where follow up shots have a real short trigger pull. It really helps my accuracy beyond 25 yards compared to long DA style trigger pulls.

3. On a traditional DA/SA, if the round doesn't go off due to a hard primer or light strike, any user will automatically try pulling the trigger again for a second chance ignition- with a hard primer and a Glock, you're down and out of action after one click.

I think it's very intuitve when a gun doesn't work to just try pulling the trigger again for a second chance. Granted- I've only had 1 9mm round fail on me ever, but I like a second chance if my life depends on it.

4. Unlike most people, my G17 did get into a weird stove piping mode. I completely cleaned and lubed it, had others shoot it incase I was limp wristing it. It didn't happen often, but any gun is a mechanical device made by man, and can fail.

5. Lastly, a nitpick as the grip never felt comfortable to me. I owned an older model from 1992, and have fired other doublestack 9mm's, which felt much more comfortable and pointable.

The bottom line for me was, if the gun had just had a manual safety, I probably would have kept it. I do like it's simple design, and fewer number of parts, and 17 rounds in the good old days beat out it's peers for capacity.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 6:30:51 PM EDT
I've seen too many junker Glocks right out of the box . A guy at Ben Avery years ago had a baby 9MM. He couldn't hit a double torso target at 7 yards ! I knew it wasn't him for earlier he was shooting out the centers of a target at 100 yds with an M-16 on full auto with a 100 round Beta mag drum hung under it ! I tried it with same results . Then I looked at the thing with a round in the chamber ... The thing WAS NOT LOCKED UP ALLOWING THE REAR OF THE BARREL TO FLOAT 360 DEGREES UP TO 1/8 " SO THE BARREL COULD BE POINTED ANYWHERE WITHIN THE SLIDE .

Have too many friends in law enforcement that have similar stories . Hell , it took US Customs almost 4 years to get Glock to build them something that would work ! The first shipment of G 17s was 25 in total . 12 of them failed within 50 rounds and several didn't make it 1/2 a mag before failure . The Agents used to refer to them as "jammomatics".
But that has all been fixed now and they are reliable . But my Custom Agents would NEVER BUY ONE OFF THE SHELF because the weapons are all gone thru by their own armorers prior to issuing them.

And the same goes for the FBI. My neighbor is a Special Agent . Their Glocks are done over at Quantico before they are allowed to touch them .If you should happen to purchase one for personal use THEY MUST BE SENT TO THEIR ARMORERS TO BE "FIXED" before an Agent can "keep it".

Now , knowing all that why in the hell would I want a store bought one when the Government LEO wont trust them ?

Link Posted: 10/11/2002 6:47:23 PM EDT
i hate how my glock is so ugly,but i am going to get another one.i have a 17 want a 21 next

its a great gun!
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 6:48:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 6:53:51 PM EDT
00_buckshot--
i agree with you 100%. my first pistol was a glock 21. i loved it. it was the best in every way.

then i shot a buddies 1911 and his pistol broke my heart. it was everything my pistol wasn't. most importantly it had a light weight trigger with a glass rod break. since i shot that gun, every gun i pick up i have to check the trigger and if it's not a target trigger i put the gun down. all my AR-s have JP single stage triggers and all other guns have the triggers tuned by a gun smith. i will never own a glock because i just don't like the trigger.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 7:01:59 PM EDT
I wouldnt get a Glock, because I usually carry my pistol in the front of my pants. I value my reproductive organs, so I like DA pistols. Sometimes I carry in the back of my pants though.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 9:36:57 PM EDT

I see a lot of people are slamming Glocks on this site. It seems like either you love them or you hate them. I own a Glock and have no complaints. I've tried to keep an open mind and understand what people could possibly hate about this gun but am unable to come up with anything significant. It's operation is among the easiest just load the mag rack the slide and pull the trigger. No safety to manipulate or exposed hammer to get in the way. It's so f**king reliable it's not even funny. It field strips in two steps. Give me an example of a gun that field strips easier than a Glock. It's not the most accurate of pistols but is by no means inaccurate (my G27 out shot my P94 and it's barrel is almost an inch shorter). It has a very streamlined design not allowing itself to get hung up on anything and its simple design also gives it a very attractive look (just my opinion). It's been through torture tests that any other gun would have failed miserably. The Glock is like the AK of the pistol world. I am in no way trying to start an argument all I want to know is why you hate them? People who do not like them always just say they suck and never give any explanation as to why. So tell me why?


Any Sig.

Most autoloaders out there are just as reliable.

Specifically, to which torture tests are you referring? The Maryland state patrol ran a bunch of pistols through testing for their own use, not some gun rag writeup. In their tests, the Sig had 0 failures, the Glock had 1 failure, the Ruger had 1 failure, the HK had 0 failures. So where is the torture test that 'that any other gun would have failed miserably'?

The term 'AK of the pistol world' term has already been applied to the Rugers.

One reason you hear people bashing Glocks is someone always comes on with "I heard about the torture tests", blah, blah, blah and they have never actually read any kind of test results, other than some gun rag. Tell me why the SEALS use Sigs and HKs, instead of Glocks and why the standard US military sidearms are the M9 Baretta and the M11 Sig?
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 10:01:41 PM EDT
I don't like Glock because of the masses, and I am not saying that everyone who has a glock is classified as this, that see glocks used in movies or talked about in songs, and then they want only that.

On that remark, I had a good friend tell me once that he wanted a Glock. I asked him, "Why Glock?" His response was because it was what they used in most movies. My response, "Lotta good a rubber dummy gun will do you!" -=0)
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 1:18:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2002 1:20:12 AM EDT by NORTH556]


But that has all been fixed now and they are reliable . But my Custom Agents would NEVER BUY ONE OFF THE SHELF because the weapons are all gone thru by their own armorers prior to issuing them.

THEY MUST BE SENT TO THEIR ARMORERS TO BE "FIXED" before an Agent can "keep it".

usa]


sniper1az,

What "FIX" are you referring to? What did Customs do to "FIX" the Glocks and what is "FIXED" by FBI Armorers?
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 3:16:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2002 3:19:48 AM EDT by redray]

Originally Posted By sniper1az:
I've seen too many junker Glocks right out of the box . A guy at Ben Avery years ago had a baby 9MM. He couldn't hit a double torso target at 7 yards ! I knew it wasn't him for earlier he was shooting out the centers of a target at 100 yds with an M-16 on full auto with a 100 round Beta mag drum hung under it ! I tried it with same results . Then I looked at the thing with a round in the chamber ... The thing WAS NOT LOCKED UP ALLOWING THE REAR OF THE BARREL TO FLOAT 360 DEGREES UP TO 1/8 " SO THE BARREL COULD BE POINTED ANYWHERE WITHIN THE SLIDE .







i own several Glocks. could you explain what you said here? you arent making any sense.

oh, and that firing an M16 full auto, 100 yards, shooting out the centers of the target, sea story......you just made that up didnt you??
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 4:42:29 AM EDT
Glocks suck ass!

Not really, I love em. Wish I had every model actually. I'm thinking of selling my 1911 for a G-21.
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 6:38:36 AM EDT
For a mass produced out of the box hand gun, I guess the Glock is OK, however I hate the price big time. They are way over priced for what you are getting and for the most part get the impression you are buying a name or image. It kind of reminds me of the Colts in the late 70's. You buy it then take to the gunsmith to make it work right. If it wasn't for that I would probably own one.

The Glock gained it's popularity from it's revolutionary use of plastic that dramatically reduced the overall weight. I can remember that everyone thought it would flop due to the image of cheap plastic but we were wrong. People found the reduced weight as a service weapon to be a major plus. If my memory serves me right the first modified service semi auto was a Smith which modified the old 39 to a 39-2 aluminum frame to reduce weight. By the way, the old 39-2 third gen 39 is one hell of a pistol, acuarate, light, and will feed anyting. After 3 mods they should get it right.

If plastic is your thing, try a new Ruger 9mm, 40 S&W, or the beloved 45. They are reliable, fun to shoot, acuarate (for an out of the box), and half the price. You can get them with SS metal so low low maintainence.
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 8:57:24 AM EDT
00_buckshot...reread your post.....will quote..
"It's operation is among the easiest just load the mag rack the slide and pull the trigger. No safety to manipulate or exposed hammer to get in the way".....Now, I repeat, what other semi-auto has a safety or exposed hammer that gets in the way when you rack the slide and pull the trigger?.......I have several and they don't get in the way when I rack the slide.....
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 9:39:21 AM EDT
Well, I tried to like it. I tried to carry a G19 for a few months, and shot it every couple of days. I bought a G17 to go along with it, thinking maybe it was lonely and needed company to be happy. I sold them both and won't buy another. I never had a jam, nor any problem with the performance of the Glock. I quit them because I didn't like the grip angle, which I found the HK/Sig grip angle to be more natural for me. I also didn't like the little trigger thingy (trigger safety) either. While it's rare, I have simply stuffed my CCW piece into my waistband, and doing that with a Glock can be dangerous. Most anyone familiar with Glocks will state they have to be carried in a holster, or your clothing might catch on the trigger thingy and the gun might go off while you stuff it in your waistband. OK, waistband may not be the best way, but I USE my gun. Sometimes it gets stuffed. Those were the only two negatives I had. They were enough for me to simply buy something else that didn't have those negatives.

Never had a problem with them and anyone who owns one is well armed, they just aren't for me.

As for why the Glock is not the official US military sidearm, the reason is simple: It was never considered. Part of the requirement was for an external safety/decocker, or decocking lever that would completely decock the pistol. The Glock doesn't do that, so no Glock for the US. It had nothing to do wtih performance and everything to do with design requirements by the DoD.

"The AK of handguns" is beyond a doubt the Makarov!

Ross
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 10:45:12 AM EDT
Bought a G21 a while ago. Didn't like "Feel"

of it. Sold it and bought another 1911, a

Springfield V-12. A friend of mine has several

of the glocks and swears by them. His carry is

the G20.
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 11:14:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jem375:
00_buckshot...reread your post.....will quote..
"It's operation is among the easiest just load the mag rack the slide and pull the trigger. No safety to manipulate or exposed hammer to get in the way".....Now, I repeat, what other semi-auto has a safety or exposed hammer that gets in the way when you rack the slide and pull the trigger?.......I have several and they don't get in the way when I rack the slide.....



You didn't ask the same question in both of your posts. Your first post asked:

00_buckshot....what pistol when you rack the slide automatically puts the safety on?

Your second post asked:

Now, I repeat, what other semi-auto has a safety or exposed hammer that gets in the way when you rack the slide and pull the trigger?


If you read what you quoted from 00_buckshot's first post, he states that there is no external safety to manipulate. There is also no external hammer to "get in the way." There was never a statement that said a safety was automatically engaged.

On a side note, I have a Ruger P85, and with the safety ON (with firearm unloaded), I slap a mag in, rack the slide, and then TURN THE SAFETY OFF to fire the weapon. This is the type of situation (IMO) 00_buckshot was talking about.

-Gloftoe
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 7:50:33 PM EDT
Gloftoe....would you like me to put a comma in between the two sentences...the way it was written it appears that a safety or exposed hammer would be in the way when you rack the slide.......Actually, I was just joking around like I thought he was when he asked this silly question that seems to be asked every 2 or 3 days on just about every gun forum website I have been on......after listening to him whine about the safeties, I am thinking of taking them off all my hunting rifles and shotguns, and 3 of my hunting handguns, who needs them?....hahaha....If I did that and my buddies saw it, I would be hunting by myself...
Link Posted: 10/12/2002 8:23:44 PM EDT
Glock 23 C for duty.
Glock 27 for back-up and CCW.
Kahr K 40 Covert for deep concealment.

Glock firearms work out of the box no problems. And get better the more they are fired. And I enjoy the 3.5 triggers and all the light weight replacement parts.
Striker
Drop safety.
Harts recoil rod.

Sure wish others could do the same on their firearms.

I just received a box of pistols from Kahr.

No, they do not like me that well. I returned two 9 MM's and two .40's.

Three now work. One .40 s & w still may need to go back. I will put another 100 rounds thru it at the range to see if it starts to become reliable.

I use Glock 19 C to train CCW and Security Officers and Glock 22's to train LEO's.

Other firearms almost do not interest me. I wish they still do. Always lookilng for something better; but no luck yet.

steveb
Link Posted: 10/13/2002 6:09:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2002 6:09:29 AM EDT by sig_230]
I hadn't noticed any GLOCK bashing. What was it that you saw and objected to? I have always thought that GLOCKs were fine pistols. Personally, their grip angle isn't what I feel comfortable with, but that is entirely subjective and YMMV.

One of my favorite semi-automatics is my HS2000. In many ways it is similar to the GLOCK but with the same grip angle as a SiG or 1911. It just feels better and points better in my hand.
Link Posted: 10/13/2002 7:15:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Green_Furniture:
They aren't safe.




Speaking of which, what ever happened to that G26 you hated so much?
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 8:05:36 AM EDT
I own several Glocks but there are some gripes I have:

- the trigger can't be made safer without also making it uncomfortably heavy.

- the frontstrap finger grooves are a solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist.

- no second-strike capability.

- trigger is not placed correctly for the grip angle, resulting in either a contorted or abraded trigger finger (the Steyr got it right on this point)

- the chambers are tighter than most other semi's.

- you're not supposed to shoot lead rounds through them.

- lastly, their tendency to kB! (not that I'm that concerned about it)
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 8:08:03 AM EDT
I would like to extend my thanks to the majority of people who gave their honest answers/opinions on why they dislike Glock pistols. Thank you for reading and fully understanding what I was trying to ask.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 10:24:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 10:27:28 AM EDT by darm441]
>And the same goes for the FBI. My neighbor is a Special Agent . Their Glocks are done over at Quantico before they are allowed to touch them .If you should happen to purchase one for personal use THEY MUST BE SENT TO THEIR ARMORERS TO BE "FIXED" before an Agent can "keep it".<
That is not a Glock issue. ALL firearms issued/used by the FBI and every other Federal LE agency go through a complete armorer's inspection before they are put on the street for use. All the S&W's they used, all the custom 1911's the special teams use, all the HK subguns, EVERYTHING has to be checked and aproved by an armorer first.

>Now , knowing all that why in the hell would I want a store bought one when the Government LEO wont trust them?<
Perhaps because the Glock was the most popular non-issue handgun chosen by so many Government LE officers? Sort of strange that, whenever they were given the option, they would overwhelmingly pick a gun that they won't trust.

Link Posted: 10/14/2002 11:49:03 AM EDT
darm441;

This is not a new policy, nor does it have its' roots in the Bureau's adoption of the Glock. They also did it with revolvers. Many, many agencies have this policy, and a good one it is, too. You learn very quickly not to trust ANY firearm without examining and testing it first. Basically, armorers "blueprint" the gun to be sure it is correctly within spec and works as it should. That's all...no conspiracy to see here...move along.
Link Posted: 10/14/2002 5:50:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2002 5:54:30 PM EDT by sniper1az]
Well , since you asked , the US Customs and FBI armorers both replace the guide rods , recoil springs and the trigger assemblies .Then they are tuned for a 4.5 lb trigger pull .Neither my FBI neighbor or Customs friend know where or what source the "fix parts" come from .They are rather secretive about such things .


And no , I'm not making it up about the dude with the M-16 . I even remember he had on a T-shirt that read "excuse me for breaking your concentration " from PULP FICTION .


We have real SHOOTERS out west in Arizona where we carry weapons ALL the time .
Link Posted: 10/15/2002 10:32:00 AM EDT
>>This is not a new policy, nor does it have its' roots in the Bureau's adoption of the Glock. They also did it with revolvers.<<
That was my point, that the concept is nothing new nor does it denote anything unusual.
Link Posted: 10/15/2002 10:43:48 AM EDT
1st, I don't own a Glock (yet) but I had a meeting with the instructors for the Tucson PD, and they are replacing all of their USPs with GLocks next year. They went on and on about problems with their HKs, but I suspect their biggest problem is with Sterling VA's customer service than with the guns. Either way, the largest municipal PD user of HK is switching to Glock 22s and 23s.
PS, I do own an HK Mark 23, Tac (both suppressed) and a USPC .45. So I have no pro-Glock agenda. I am getting a model 32 with a .40 spare bbl just to see if I like it. I've always like the .357 Sig, and finally decided to get one.
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