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Posted: 12/12/2005 12:13:31 PM EDT
I wanted a certain pistol in .44 mag but it is no longer available. It is available in .45 Colt but I don't know anything about this round other than it is popular with cowboy action shooters. Could someone school me on the .45 Colt round?

How does it compare to the .44 mag balistically, recoil wise?

How about ammo cost/availability etc... etc....

Thanks in Advance!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:24:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 12:34:38 PM EDT by VBC]
.45 Long Colt is like a hot .45 ACP load. You're talking about 450 ft-lbs of energy and about 950 fps velocity for a 225 grain bullet. A .45 ACP will send the same bullet with about 100 ft-lbs less energy and 100 fps less velocity.

A .44 magnum in 180 grain can launch one about 1,600 fps velocity and about 1,100 ft-lbs of energy. A 230 grain .44 mag bullet will go about 1,100 fps and have about 750 ft-lbs of energy.

Considerably more kick and power with the .44 magnum.

.44 mag probably easier to find and runs about $18 to $25 for a box of 50. I would suspect .45 LC runs about the same, or even more, and is not as common at the stores.

Also, the .44 mag is actually a .41" dia. bullet and a .45 LC is a .45" dia. bullet. So .44 is slightly smaller around, until it expands.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:53:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
.45 Long Colt is like a hot .45 ACP load. You're talking about 450 ft-lbs of energy and about 950 fps velocity for a 225 grain bullet. A .45 ACP will send the same bullet with about 100 ft-lbs less energy and 100 fps less velocity.

A .44 magnum in 180 grain can launch one about 1,600 fps velocity and about 1,100 ft-lbs of energy. A 230 grain 240 grain .44 mag bullet will go about 1,100 fps 1350 fps and have about 750 ft-lbs of energy.

Considerably more kick and power with the .44 magnum.

.44 mag probably easier to find and runs about $18 to $25 for a box of 50. I would suspect .45 LC runs about the same, or even more, and is not as common at the stores.

Also, the .44 mag is actually a .41" dia. .429 -.430" dia. bullet and a .45 LC is a .454" dia. bullet. So .44 is slightly smaller around, until it expands.



In a strong revolver (Ruger Blackhawk) the .45 Colt can be handloaded to the pressures the .44 mag. is. In this case it is slightly more powerful than the .44 mag.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 12:56:56 PM EDT
Actually, there are some loadings for the .45 Long Colt that are more powerful than the .44 Magnum. These are obviously not factory loadings but they still are .45 Long Colt loads. However, they are are not suitable for use in any type of orginal colt single action army.

A quick google search will yeild some results. You need to be aware that these are seriously heavy loadings. Corbon offers a pretty heavy .45 LC loading.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:08:32 PM EDT
You can buy plenty hot laods for the .45 colt, just don't shoot them in a SAA or clone (Rugerd DON'T count as a clone except maybe the new ones, they are over built)

I have some loads for .45 colt for my Winchester that beat out all Factory 45/70 offerings that I have found...


Out of my pistols I am pulling around1100-1200 FPS with a 255 gr bullet, enough to knock down a deer, elk, human or bear if I do my part
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:03:17 PM EDT
I have some rounds from Buffalo Bore that are essentially .45 magnum rounds. They are more powerful than a standard .44 magnum, but only suitable for a strong revolver. I use a Ruger Vaquero (old style beefy single action version) stainless 5.5" barrel. It is my sidearm I will take with me when I venture into the woods. The rounds are supposed to be good for dangerous game up to 1000 lbs, so that covers pretty much everything in the lower 48.

I used to live in Alaska, and if I ever make it back there and go in the backcountry for fishing in the Kenai or something I would want a bit more punch. During the Iditarod dog sled race when I lived there, a young woman took part in the race but did not take a firearm. Her dog team surprised a bull moose along the way and the moose charged the sled team, stomping to death several dogs before another racer came along. He had a .44 magnum with him, and the moose didn't drop until the 5th shot. Yes.....I will have more power if I go back to Alaska!
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:16:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:18:48 PM EDT
Handloading aside, to me the .44spl = .45acp = .45Colt.

All have the same 850-1000f/p/s with some sort of 220-240gr bullet travelling with very nice accuracy. Recoil difference is minimal at best if all loads are equal.

Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:31:15 PM EDT
OK I confess...It is not so much the gun as the finish. The gun in question is a Taurus Raging Bull. I like the bright stainless finish of old...(No Pimp jokes please . It is only offered in Matte in the .44 but the 45 Colt is still easily found in bright. Or I could say screw it and go with the .454 Casull

It is gonna be for fun anyway, but could be used for defense since it will be my only pistol.

Can the RB handle the hot stuff in 45 Colt?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:48:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Redman:
OK I confess...It is not so much the gun as the finish. The gun in question is a Taurus Raging Bull. I like the bright stainless finish of old...(No Pimp jokes please . It is only offered in Matte in the .44 but the 45 Colt is still easily found in bright. Or I could say screw it and go with the .454 Casull

It is gonna be for fun anyway, but could be used for defense since it will be my only pistol.

Can the RB handle the hot stuff in 45 Colt?



Get the .454. You can still shoot .45LC in a .454 if you want.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 8:53:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 8:54:48 PM EDT by GenghisKhan]

Originally Posted By Bob1984:

Originally Posted By Redman:
OK I confess...It is not so much the gun as the finish. The gun in question is a Taurus Raging Bull. I like the bright stainless finish of old...(No Pimp jokes please . It is only offered in Matte in the .44 but the 45 Colt is still easily found in bright. Or I could say screw it and go with the .454 Casull

It is gonna be for fun anyway, but could be used for defense since it will be my only pistol.

Can the RB handle the hot stuff in 45 Colt?



Get the .454. You can still shoot .45LC in a .454 if you want.



+1 and it should have no problems with the hot .45LC loads at all. Very versitle I would think. You could shoot any thing from the lowest .45LC low recoil loads to the hottest .45LC and .454 loads. Thats a big spectrum.



EDIT: As long as you do not put on pearl grips and do not gold plate any thing I will not make pimp jokes.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 10:53:32 PM EDT
The 45 Colt can be loaded to 60K chamber pressures and duplicate the 454 Casull, so it is a very strong cartridge. It is more a question of what your going to put it in as to how strong you can load it. In the Rugers I use a 320 cast at 1310 fps in a 5.5 SBH chambered for the 44 Rem Mag, I use a 335 cast at 1320fps in a 5.5 RH chambered in the 45 Colt. Six of one 1/2 dozen of the other (these are both upper end loads in the 6 shot rugers). I have run the same 335 cast loaded in a 45 Colt case over 1600 fps in my Model 83 Freedom Arms chambered for the 454 Casull. I don't know anything about the Taurus chambered in the 45 Colt or it's strength limitations. My only experience with Taurus was a 454 R.B. and we didn't do well together. It found a new home.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:22:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:


I have some loads for .45 colt for my Winchester that beat out all Factory 45/70 offerings that I have found...





There is no way any 45LC load will hit harder then a 45/70, even the weak 45/70's. You are talking over 2 thousand ft-lbs for an average 45/70 and 3,500+ for a hot load.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:12:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 5:12:39 AM EDT by Redman]
EDIT: As long as you do not put on pearl grips and do not gold plate any thing I will not make pimp jokes.

OK, I promise . Wonder if I could get a lanyard loop on it so I can hang a gold dangling cross or some othe anklet type charm from it


I all seriousness, I didn't know you could shoot .45 Colt out of a 454...That really changes things. A little off topic but what other loads, if any, can be shot from the S&W 500 or S&W 460?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:13:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rabon:
The 45 Colt can be loaded to 60K chamber pressures and duplicate the 454 Casull, so it is a very strong cartridge. It is more a question of what your going to put it in as to how strong you can load it. In the Rugers I use a 320 cast at 1310 fps in a 5.5 SBH chambered for the 44 Rem Mag, I use a 335 cast at 1320fps in a 5.5 RH chambered in the 45 Colt. Six of one 1/2 dozen of the other (these are both upper end loads in the 6 shot rugers). I have run the same 335 cast loaded in a 45 Colt case over 1600 fps in my Model 83 Freedom Arms chambered for the 454 Casull. I don't know anything about the Taurus chambered in the 45 Colt or it's strength limitations. My only experience with Taurus was a 454 R.B. and we didn't do well together. It found a new home.




Please tell. What didn't you like about the Raging Bull?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:26:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Redman:
EDIT: As long as you do not put on pearl grips and do not gold plate any thing I will not make pimp jokes.

OK, I promise . Wonder if I could get a lanyard loop on it so I can hang a gold dangling cross or some othe anklet type charm from it


I all seriousness, I didn't know you could shoot .45 Colt out of a 454...That really changes things. A little off topic but what other loads, if any, can be shot from the S&W 500 or S&W 460?



I'm not aware of a .500 S&W 'special', so I dont think there is any other choices for it. Now the .460 XVR can shoot the .460 obviously, but also the .454C and the .45LC as they are all the same case/bullet diameter. So you have 3 choices there with that caliber
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:39:21 AM EDT
I read in a gun rag that S&W has a .500 special now that has lower recoil than the standard round. I believe it said they make a smaller revolver which is chamberd for the special round only.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:45:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 11:17:34 AM EDT by THR-Thumper]
From a 4 5/8 inch .45 Colt Blackhawk:

My SAFE handloads make any factory .44 mag look downright wimpy.

ETA: I can't believe I wasted post 1000 on this.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:25:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Gooch:

I'm not aware of a .500 S&W 'special', so I dont think there is any other choices for it. Now the .460 XVR can shoot the .460 obviously, but also the .454C and the .45LC as they are all the same case/bullet diameter. So you have 3 choices there with that caliber



Yup. Just read it in the latest and greatest biased gun magazines.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:38:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SkagSig40:

Originally Posted By TacticalPenguin:


I have some loads for .45 colt for my Winchester that beat out all Factory 45/70 offerings that I have found...





There is no way any 45LC load will hit harder then a 45/70, even the weak 45/70's. You are talking over 2 thousand ft-lbs for an average 45/70 and 3,500+ for a hot load.




I can push a 300 gr bullet at the same speeds as the same grain bullet from a 45/70, out of my 94 Winchester in .45 colt, I can push it faster out of a modern 92 in the same caliber. that said I do know I could load 45/70 in a strong action faster, I just have not found many actions that lend themselves to pumping a 45/70 really hot.


Hell my cowboy loading for .45 colt has taken bear, so I am not thaty concerned about going hotter and harder, though I have done it. (My Cowboy loads for the Colt are 9.5 grains of unique under a 255 grain bullet, safe for my original Colts as well as all my repros and my rifles. or I dump BP into the case by volume using a schofield case for the measure.)
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:54:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Redman:

Can the RB handle the hot stuff in 45 Colt?





Easily. Your hand, however, is a different matter..................
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 3:57:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:

ETA: I can't believe I wasted post 1000 on this.




I can't believe you count your posts. I really can't believe you went back to edit that you counted your posts.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:48:17 PM EDT
I didn't have a problem with the 454 RB, it's somewhat large and heavy but it shoots pretty soft (probably because it is large and heavy.). This particular gun had a problem with light primer strikes when fired D/A (many of the early RBs had this problem) so I contacted Taurus and asked them to send me some heavier springs, they said I would need to send the gun to them for service (BTW Wolfe doesn't offer springs for this gun.) I sent the gun in and in about 7 weeks the gun came back and it worked fine (for a few minutes) in less than 20 rounds the gun locked up. I sent the gun back and it came back in about 8 weeks at which time I put the gun on consignment and sold it.
When I got this gun I hammered it with upper end loads which I would normally use only in a F/A Model 83 and it had a lot of rounds through it and it seemed to handle it just fine, so I think it's a pretty good gun. Theres no way of knowing but I suspect if they had sent me the requested springs this all could have been avoided. I base my opinion on the fact the gun had no major problem until they "fixed" it. I would say it's a pretty good gun and Taurus does honor their warranty. This was one of those things that just didn't work out.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:37:32 AM EDT
There is one issue with 45LC that no one has pointed out yet. If you hand load for power, use ONLY new, modern manufacture brass as some of the older stuff was of a balloon head design. Back in the day with the original loading, that wasn't an issue, but with modern powders and high pressures, the old style cases can separate when firing.

Like with the 45/70, factory loads are for the lowest common denominator. Factory 45/70 is set up for old trap door Springfields with weak actions. Now move forward to a Ruger #1 or 3 and you can get within spitting distance of the 458 Winmag.

Power aside, there's more to cartridge effectiveness than paper numbers. Look at the 45ACP. It looks pretty anemic on paper compared to the 44Mag, but is very effective on live targets. Same with the 45LC. Heavy bullet + moderate velocity + large caliber = big fight stopping hole in target. The 44Mag, while powerful, as a self defense load is subject to overpenetration hitting stuff behind the target you might not want to hit, like innocent bystanders in the next room or down the street. That's also an inefficient energy transfer. What good is tons of energy if it's expended as continued flight downrange after going through the target?

Finally, if you do have to use the 45LC in a fight, there's about no way for the BG to tell the caliber when you point the business end at him. To him, it's a great big gun. You're not going to take the time to announce to the BG that you're about to pop him with the famous 44Mag.

There's nothing wrong with the 45LC one bit. With handloads it can equal the 44Mag easily but with normal pressure loads is very pleasant to shoot, sorta like a big 22. A 44Mag in a lightweight gun isn't much fun to shoot. Better to spend time practicing with what you can control than flinching each time you pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 9:30:00 AM EDT
You seem to be most interested in a specific pistol rather than a specific chambering. So that would indicate to me that you should go with the .45.
Frankly, IMHO neither of these cartridges is all that wonderful in stock factory form. OTOH, both the .44 Magnum and the .45 Colt are positively outstanding and probably THE most versatile handgun cartridges available when handloaded.
My personal preference is the .44 Mag. It's available in a wide assortment of well made revolvers in both single and double action. It's also the cartridge that motivated me to start handloading.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:30:38 PM EDT
There are available loadings which appeal to those who do not load their own and most of them are 44's. Federal's 300Cast Core load is what sold me on a 44mag. It is the right tool, S&W Mountain Gun with the 300 Federal, for me and why I bought one.
45 Colt shooters by the zillions enjoy a broad spectrum of loads which include powder puff loads to Magnum level hunting loads. They know what pistol to load how hot and how to load them. I don't know squat. I just put factory 300's in my S&W 44mag. and I'm done. For people like me, this is a good thing and has been for a very long time. As to the Colt, it too is a good thing , for a much longer time.
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