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Posted: 12/12/2005 12:41:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 3:51:47 AM EDT by BLY]
I know you're not supposed to release the slide on an empty chamber but, I don't exactly know what it damages in doing this. Anyone know?

Yesterday, I did it with my GLOCK in order to conserve ammo (ie. not drop it in the snow). I removed the magazine, put it in my pocket and then sling-shotted the slide and caught the ejected round with my weak hand. Pretty neat considering it was my first attempt at such a thing.

ETA: Just to clarify, that was the one and only time I've ever let the slide go on any handgun without a loaded mag inserted.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:11:34 AM EDT
I dont know what damage it will do, I would guess the case cousions the breechface when slamming into the chamber, but............ why don't you turn the gun upsidedown and "stratle" the slide over the ejection port with your other hand to catch the bullet, then "ride" the slide back into battery?
Icon
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:57:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:21:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 11:21:46 AM EDT by VBC]
I've always thought is was a no-no for 1911s but didn't really matter on better designed guns.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 11:23:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
I've always thought is was a no-no for 1911s but didn't really matter on better designed guns.





Better designed guns? Or guns with triggers that are so shitty to start with you'll never notice the damage?
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 1:16:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Morbid_Icon:
why don't you turn the gun upsidedown and "stratle" the slide over the ejection port with your other hand to catch the bullet, then "ride" the slide back into battery?


Years ago there was a post in the Tactics & Training forum of a guy who was taking a class on the west coast. He was in the habit of doing this with his SIG. The chances of it happening were one in a million, but the primer on the live round he was ejecting hit the ejector in just the right place and the round went off.

He had some minor cuts and a bruised hand - certainly not the end of the world - but a good reason to just eject the round into the air with the ejection port pointed away from any part of the body.

Regarding the habit of catching the live round in the air trick - it un-nerves a lot of range/safety officers. At the safety briefing of some matches they'll warn you not to do it. I do it all the time, but if I'm at a big match or shooting in front of an RO/SO I don't know, I'll usually just let the round fall to the ground.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:35:13 PM EDT
To drop the slide on an empty chamber is a bad thing to do, especially on a 1911. What happens is that there is no resistance of from the slide picking up a round and chambering it which causes a "jarring" of the pistol. This can cause a situation called "sear bounce" where the sear can jump out of the full cock notch, the hammer falls, and the sear hits and is stopped by the half cock / safety ledge/notch. This will ruin the mating surface of the sear therfore ruining the trigger job and making the pistol unreliable.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 2:44:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/12/2005 2:51:35 PM EDT by sysop]

Originally Posted By BrianNH:
To drop the slide on an empty chamber is a bad thing to do, especially on a 1911. What happens is that there is no resistance of from the slide picking up a round and chambering it which causes a "jarring" of the pistol. This can cause a situation called "sear bounce" where the sear can jump out of the full cock notch, the hammer falls, and the sear hits and is stopped by the half cock / safety ledge/notch. This will ruin the mating surface of the sear therfore ruining the trigger job and making the pistol unreliable.



Correct and if you slide slam your gun often it can loosen the slide to frame fit in much the same way spinning an open cylinder on a revolver and slamming it into battery will, if done often enough will screw it up. Also, once on a Bushmaster Bullpup a customer in the store I worked at let the bolt slam on an empty chamber and the mag release assembly cracked and the fell out.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 4:00:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
I've always thought is was a no-no for 1911s but didn't really matter on better designed guns.




People tend to sound cocky when all they are is misinformed. The 1911 design, young one, is the foundation for 99% of pistol designs today. Been around for almost 100 years and is still going strong.
Link Posted: 12/12/2005 6:10:18 PM EDT
Any sort of spring-assisted extractor, which most non-1911 designs are, has no problem with letting a slide go home empty. The spring will absorb the kinetic energy that the empty chamber cannot.

The problem with the 1911 type extractor is that it's so hard, it's brittle. When an empty slide slams home, the extractor will hum like a tuning fork. Nothing there to absorb the kinetic energy, thus it'll oscillate (sp?) like a baby tuning fork. The $64 question is: when is slaming it one more time too many???? One hundred? One thousand? I couldn't tell you, nor could most other folks, IMO. As a result, the slides on 1911s simply aren't dropped empty. Every other gun will most likely include an external extractor, i.e. no worries.

My .o2
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:37:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 5:58:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 6:01:43 AM EDT by VBC]

Originally Posted By effinNewGuy:

Originally Posted By VBC:
I've always thought is was a no-no for 1911s but didn't really matter on better designed guns.




People tend to sound cocky when all they are is misinformed. The 1911 design, young one, is the foundation for 99% of pistol designs today. Been around for almost 100 years and is still going strong.



I know, I know. I was just taking a jab because I know how cocky 1911 lovers are.

The Model T Ford is also the foundation all automobiles after it are based on. Does that make it drive better than a Corvette Z06?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:23:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 8:18:57 AM EDT
This is one reason I prefer to order new guns vice buying one in the glass case. I have seen far too many shoppers let the slide slam home while looking at a gun. I was looking for a SA MC Operator a while back and the local shop that had one in stock was showing it to a customer who more than once locked the slide to the rear then pushed the slide stop down, letting it pound home. I made up my mind there and then I would not be buying *that* particular gun. Realistically, the guy probably didn't hurt the gun, but I am not interested putting a piece of life support equipment through unnecessary abuse.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:05:07 AM EDT
Im still really trying to figure out the need to do that with ANY handgun.


Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:10:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
Any sort of spring-assisted extractor, which most non-1911 designs are, has no problem with letting a slide go home empty. The spring will absorb the kinetic energy that the empty chamber cannot.

The problem with the 1911 type extractor is that it's so hard, it's brittle. When an empty slide slams home, the extractor will hum like a tuning fork. Nothing there to absorb the kinetic energy, thus it'll oscillate (sp?) like a baby tuning fork. The $64 question is: when is slaming it one more time too many???? One hundred? One thousand? I couldn't tell you, nor could most other folks, IMO. As a result, the slides on 1911s simply aren't dropped empty. Every other gun will most likely include an external extractor, i.e. no worries.

My .o2



Ned Christiansen tested an extractor to 14,000 cycles without issue.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:21:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 1:21:52 PM EDT by VBC]
Yeah, you'd think if it was really an issue, 1911s would have a warning roll marked into the slide that says NO SLAM HOME EMPTY
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:24:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
Yeah, you'd think if it was really an issue, 1911s would have a warning roll marked into the slide that says NO SLAM HOME EMPTY




Then you've never had a 1911 with a precision fitted hammer and sear and then abused it.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 1:27:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 1:28:04 PM EDT by VBC]
I haven't. The only 1911 I own and have ever owned is the SA GI .45. And I don't slam it on an empty chamber. Or any of my guns for that matter.

But I heard that's the real reason you don't slam it on an empty chamber. It'll mess up a 1911's custom tuning.



Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:00:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
but the primer on the live round he was ejecting hit the ejector in just the right place and the round went off.



also happened to a friend of mine




Well, shit, tell them to stop doing that!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:10:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 4:11:32 PM EDT by BobCole]

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Ned Christiansen tested an extractor to 14,000 cycles without issue.




Clearly he & Mr. Murphy aren't as close friends as Murphy & I are then????? Seriously, just because someone got 500,000 miles out of a fill-in-the-blank vehicle doesn't mean *I* will get it, or everyone will, or even close to it, IMO. I have been told by folks who understand the engineering behind it put it in layman's terms, which I probably poorly executed here. As with everything else guns, we pays our money, we takes our chances. And that's what makes gun debate fun, no?

Bu­t I'm still believing the slide harming the extractor theory until someone convinces me otherwise.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:23:00 PM EDT
I wont do it to my metal framed gun like CZ75, Beretta, or 1911A1 etc..., but I have no problem doing it to my Glock 17. I think Glocks can handle it better than other guns based on the way the barrel locks up.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 4:57:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 4:59:05 PM EDT by VBC]
Honestly, I think with today's guns and metallurgical advances, slamming the slide on an empty chamber probably doesn't hurt a thing. Aside from a 1911 of course.

Just like a long time ago dry firing was a no-no because it would commonly break the firing pin. Thus the reason for snap caps or dropping the firing pin on spent cartridges. Nowadays everybody dry fires because firing pins are no longer made out of pot metal.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:04:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 9:16:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 9:21:46 PM EDT by sysfailur]
Hmm good thing I read this thread, I've done this a few times with my new 1911--the only time I do it is if I'm done shooting at targets, let the slide release and holster it.

So, if I were to want to do that I should give retention on the slide so it doesn't slam? Or carry it back with slide back until I load up more mags?

I think I've done this about hmmm 15-20 times :( I wasn't aware it was bad to do! *Cringe*

EDIT: Does this affect external extractors as well like on my SW1911PD? Or is it simply the internal ones?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 11:23:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 4:34:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:

Originally Posted By effinNewGuy:

Originally Posted By VBC:
I've always thought is was a no-no for 1911s but didn't really matter on better designed guns.




People tend to sound cocky when all they are is misinformed. The 1911 design, young one, is the foundation for 99% of pistol designs today. Been around for almost 100 years and is still going strong.



I know, I know. I was just taking a jab because I know how cocky 1911 lovers are.

The Model T Ford is also the foundation all automobiles after it are based on. Does that make it drive better than a Corvette Z06?




Shhhhhhh. You are not supposed to think for yourself. Just get in line and drink your Kool Aid.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:20:51 AM EDT
If the US Military, SWAT and FBI was still using the Model T i would have to seriously take a look at why because maybe just maybe the are doing it for a reason.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 6:24:57 AM EDT
It's not a good habit to get into.

Still, a few times here and there won't hurt anything except maybe on guns with match triggers like a Gold Cup.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 7:52:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MaddMan:
If the US Military, SWAT and FBI was still using the Model T i would have to seriously take a look at why because maybe just maybe the are doing it for a reason.



Are they?


Only some select special forces members opt for 1911s and LA SWAT. FBI uses .40 cal Glocks.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:41:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:

Originally Posted By MaddMan:
If the US Military, SWAT and FBI was still using the Model T i would have to seriously take a look at why because maybe just maybe the are doing it for a reason.



Are they?


Only some select special forces members opt for 1911s and LA SWAT. FBI uses .40 cal Glocks.




All of Delta uses 1911s. USMC DET-1 uses 1911s. The USMC MEU(SOC) uses 1911s. Just because LAPD decided to mega-publicize their Kimbers means they're the only ones that use it. And I don't think FBI SWAT and HRT would take too kindly to their Springfield Armory Professionals being called Grocks But hey, when the best of the best is still driving around in Model Ts.......
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:44:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
I've always thought is was a no-no for 1911s but didn't really matter on better designed guns.



Are you saying there is a 'better designed gun' than a 1911?


Popcorn in microwave.

Link Posted: 12/14/2005 11:49:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 11:52:25 AM EDT by VBC]



Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:

All of Delta uses 1911s. USMC DET-1 uses 1911s. The USMC MEU(SOC) uses 1911s. Just because LAPD decided to mega-publicize their Kimbers means they're the only ones that use it. And I don't think FBI SWAT and HRT would take too kindly to their Springfield Armory Professionals being called Grocks But hey, when the best of the best is still driving around in Model Ts.......




My brother in law is a FBI agent in the Newark office and he's issued a .40 Glock. So when somebody says the FBI is using 1911s, that sounded wrong to me.

If you also notice the original poster said "US Military" That's the whole kit and kaboodle to me and they use 9mm.

And I said some select special forces use 1911s.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:35:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:



Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:

All of Delta uses 1911s. USMC DET-1 uses 1911s. The USMC MEU(SOC) uses 1911s. Just because LAPD decided to mega-publicize their Kimbers means they're the only ones that use it. And I don't think FBI SWAT and HRT would take too kindly to their Springfield Armory Professionals being called Grocks But hey, when the best of the best is still driving around in Model Ts.......




My brother in law is a FBI agent in the Newark office and he's issued a .40 Glock. So when somebody says the FBI is using 1911s, that sounded wrong to me.

If you also notice the original poster said "US Military" That's the whole kit and kaboodle to me and they use 9mm.

And I said some select special forces use 1911s.


HRT, Firearms instructors and some other Fibbies use 1911s. They have some custom guns, a bunch of Springfields and some Les Baers. A lot of other fed LE types have 1911s too.

Also, per Scott Reitz, the three units in LAPD that average the highest number of shootings per officer all issue .45 caliber 1911s.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 1:47:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/14/2005 1:50:06 PM EDT by VBC]
Why doesn't the rest of the gun community get on the ball then if the experts are so in the know?

I think it's just personal preference. The .45 makes people more psychologically confident IMO and that can make all the difference in the world because it takes a cool collected confidence person to hit someone with a pistol. Also many people grew up with the 1911 so it's in their blood.

Doesn't mean it's the best pistol platform. Just my opinions. Don't shoot me.

Most fights are won and lost in the mind. The guy who hesitates or second guesses is going to lose. The guy who KNOWS he's going to win, wins. If a .45 gives you that psychological edge over a 9mm, then it's going to be more deadly in your hands.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 2:02:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
Most fights are won and lost in the mind. The guy who hesitates or second guesses is going to lose. The guy who KNOWS he's going to win, wins. If a .45 gives you that psychological edge over a 9mm, then it's going to be more deadly in your hands.



Finally something truely intelligent in this thread!
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 2:49:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:
Why doesn't the rest of the gun community get on the ball then if the experts are so in the know?

I think it's just personal preference. The .45 makes people more psychologically confident IMO and that can make all the difference in the world because it takes a cool collected confidence person to hit someone with a pistol. Also many people grew up with the 1911 so it's in their blood.

Doesn't mean it's the best pistol platform. Just my opinions. Don't shoot me.

Most fights are won and lost in the mind. The guy who hesitates or second guesses is going to lose. The guy who KNOWS he's going to win, wins. If a .45 gives you that psychological edge over a 9mm, then it's going to be more deadly in your hands.



Because a 1911 isn't a pistol design than you can be proficient with the instant you get it. Look at it like this. For the sake of argument, we'll use WS6 Trans Ams to represent Glocks and an FIA WRC rally car to represent 1911s. We'll let "average guys" represent Glock shooters and their level of training and trained WRC drivers to represent someone (such as an LAPD SWAT officer) who is trained on the 1911. An average guy off the street can jump in the Trans Am and be relativly fast in it. It'll brake and handle well and be pretty easy to work on. Put the same guy in a WRC car and he's gonna get real dead real fast. Plus he won't be able to work on it. Throw the WRC driver in there and he's gonna do things with the car that most people don't even think are possible. Glocks are fine for someone who is only interested in guns as far as "I'm a cop and have to qualify whenever the rules say so" while 1911s are more geared towards people with the time, money and motivation to get the training they need to shoot their gun better than anyone else can shoot theirs.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 2:57:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Finally something truely intelligent in this thread!



Sorry, I won't let that happen again.


Originally Posted By Zakk_Wylde_470:

Because a 1911 isn't a pistol design than you can be proficient with the instant you get it. Look at it like this. For the sake of argument, we'll use WS6 Trans Ams to represent Glocks and an FIA WRC rally car to represent 1911s. We'll let "average guys" represent Glock shooters and their level of training and trained WRC drivers to represent someone (such as an LAPD SWAT officer) who is trained on the 1911. An average guy off the street can jump in the Trans Am and be relativly fast in it. It'll brake and handle well and be pretty easy to work on. Put the same guy in a WRC car and he's gonna get real dead real fast. Plus he won't be able to work on it. Throw the WRC driver in there and he's gonna do things with the car that most people don't even think are possible. Glocks are fine for someone who is only interested in guns as far as "I'm a cop and have to qualify whenever the rules say so" while 1911s are more geared towards people with the time, money and motivation to get the training they need to shoot their gun better than anyone else can shoot theirs.



Interesting analogy. But as an owner of '99 Z28 6-speed, you can do some amazing things in a 4-gen LS1 f-body too and get yourself just as dead too. It takes practice and a lot of seat time to wring out anything near the performance envelope of the car. And I prefer Sigs to Glocks.



Link Posted: 12/14/2005 3:02:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
Regarding the habit of catching the live round in the air trick - it un-nerves a lot of range/safety officers. At the safety briefing of some matches they'll warn you not to do it. I do it all the time, but if I'm at a big match or shooting in front of an RO/SO I don't know, I'll usually just let the round fall to the ground.

+1 That's the kind of thing I do when I'm alone or with my buddies, not in any formal shooting enviornment.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:05:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Im still really trying to figure out the need to do that with ANY handgun.





Its the Dork at the gunstore gun test. They slam the action shut and then say "Man thats smooth" . If you could not do that how would the Dorks act like they new any thing about firearms.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 7:53:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VBC:




My brother in law is a FBI agent in the Newark office and he's issued a .40 Glock. So when somebody says the FBI is using 1911s, that sounded wrong to me.

If you also notice the original poster said "US Military" That's the whole kit and kaboodle to me and they use 9mm.



Yes, line Special Agents are issued G22s. They can opt for a G23, 27, 26, 19, 17 or 21 as personal weapons. Agents who were issued Sigs (220s and 226s) before the G22 became standard have been grandfathered and can keep them.

FBI HRT and the regional SWAT teams (one at each field office) use Springfield Armory 1911s (very nice ones I might add).

And, yes in the military we issue a 9mm currently (except SOF as you noted), but the RFP has already gone out to purchase a new sidearm for all of DoD... in 45ACP.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:19:57 AM EDT

Don't slam the slide on an empty chamber.

<­BR>





­



THE END
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:25:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/15/2005 8:26:00 AM EDT by txgp17]

Originally Posted By Tweak:
not the extractor you have to worry about, the issue with the extractor (standard) is if you drop a round in the chamber then drop the slide. The 1911 extractor is designed for the round to come up from underneath not from the front (as is the case with the AR).

I have the same problem with my GLOCKs. I've got some BLACK TALON ammo I kept for a really long time. I had a full mag and one loose cartridge for the chamber. After so many times of removing the BT ammo for practice shooting, I noticed the rim of the "chamber" case was getting pretty darn ugly. This comes from the extractor being forced over the rim, instead of the rim being slid under it, IMHO.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 12:50:15 PM EDT
Took me a little thinking to realize what to do to avoid this during range sessions.

8 Rounds to a magazine for a 1911 right? Shoot 7. Leave the one in the chamber, reload mag, shoot 8, reload mag, shoot 8. Eh... eh? Is that thinking or is that thinking?

That way the slide would never lock back period and there would be no reason to even USE the slide release.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 1:39:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:30:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:
not the extractor you have to worry about, the issue with the extractor (standard) is if you drop a round in the chamber then drop the slide. The 1911 extractor is designed for the round to come up from underneath not from the front (as is the case with the AR).



Ahh thanks for clarifying.
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 2:41:43 PM EDT
So I've been abusing my Kimber TLE/RL for the last year by letting the slide go forward with no round in it. Great, I never heard of that before
Link Posted: 12/15/2005 3:36:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GenghisKhan:

Its the Dork at the gunstore gun test. They slam the action shut and then say "Man thats smooth" . If you could not do that how would the Dorks act like they new any thing about firearms.




+1

Link Posted: 12/15/2005 8:14:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By justice23:
So I've been abusing my Kimber TLE/RL for the last year by letting the slide go forward with no round in it. Great, I never heard of that before hinking.gif



Maybe you should READ your manual page 22 Number 4
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:04:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 4:05:25 AM EDT by TonyW]
Well, I have to admit that I've done this very thing and in a gun store to boot. I guess that makes me a dork. Or maybe I've just never heard that it was bad for the gun. That's what I like about this place, I always learn something new. But then I've always been more of a revolver guy so I've not had to worry about it much. h=85%

Most fights are won and lost in the mind. The guy who hesitates or second guesses is going to lose. The guy who KNOWS he's going to win, wins. If a .45 gives you that psychological edge over a 9mm, then it's going to be more deadly in your hands.


I am looking for a new pistol for when I get my CCW and this has been one the things kicking around my geeky little brain. I know someone who carries a Glock 26 in 9mm and it's a nice shooting little gun, but for some reason the 9mm just doesn't make me happy or confident that it will do what I want it to if things get ugly. Having a .40 S&W or a .45 ACP will just make me feel more confident. And I think you're right - that's half the battle.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 4:06:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 4:20:59 AM EDT by BLY]

Originally Posted By Dolomite:

Originally Posted By Morbid_Icon:
why don't you turn the gun upsidedown and "stratle" the slide over the ejection port with your other hand to catch the bullet, then "ride" the slide back into battery?


Years ago there was a post in the Tactics & Training forum of a guy who was taking a class on the west coast. He was in the habit of doing this with his SIG. The chances of it happening were one in a million, but the primer on the live round he was ejecting hit the ejector in just the right place and the round went off.

He had some minor cuts and a bruised hand - certainly not the end of the world - but a good reason to just eject the round into the air with the ejection port pointed away from any part of the body.

Regarding the habit of catching the live round in the air trick - it un-nerves a lot of range/safety officers. At the safety briefing of some matches they'll warn you not to do it. I do it all the time, but if I'm at a big match or shooting in front of an RO/SO I don't know, I'll usually just let the round fall to the ground.



In response to Morbid_Icon: That's why. (Highlighted)

I have always let the chambered round hit the ground and left it where it lay. The reason is, I have heard of people who chamber a single round multiple times (never specified how many times) and eventually they fire it, and they get a kB. They get a kB because the bullet was set back further and further into the case each time they chambered it and, the explosive pressure increases to an intolerable level.


ETA: Maybe BigBore (was it him?) would be willing to extend the testing of his G21 to include releasing the slide on an empty chamber....many, many times. If he doesn't see this thread and a member who knows if it was him, could IM him this thread and the reason why, maybe he would consider it.
Not to knock on the die-hard 1911 fans but, it would be one more plus for GLOCK if it didn't damage it.
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