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Posted: 12/5/2005 10:16:03 AM EDT

My wife has always shot my pistols and none of them seemed the right fit for her. My G23's handle is too big and my 1911 may not be the right choice for a new shooter to choose as a defensive weapon.

I want to buy her a pistol that she will shoot through all of her up coming training classes and later carry when she gets her carry permit.

I don't really like Sig but I know that they are quality firearms and Glocks are just too fat for her hands. Lesser quality firearms are out also. I don't really trust Khar, Taurus, and Kel-Tec. We looked at a Sig P239 that has a single stack mag of 7rds of .40s&w and the size of the gun is perfect for her. www.impactguns.com/store/sig_p239.html

Does anyone have any experience with this pistol? I'm not crazy about it being a double action auto but she might not have a problem with the different trigger pull the first round. We are going to see if any ranges close to us have any rental Sigs to shoot before we buy but I thought I'd also cheack here for opinions on this weapon.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 10:36:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 11:10:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DixieKnight:
We are going to see if any ranges close to us have any rental Sigs to shoot before we buy


That's a smart move. If she's not crazy about the recoil a compact .40S&W delivers, I bet they'll have one or two different .38 specials she can try.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 11:29:07 AM EDT
I have a Sig P239 in 9mm. I changed out the stock grips to Hogue's, and my wife loves it. .40SW has a sharp recoil, some ladies dont like that.

My 9mm Sig P239 is a great gun, however it is selective in the hollow points that it will feed. Large openings get caught on the feed ramp. I've had rounds jamb when charging manually, but never when shooting. SA/DA takes a bit to get used to since the first shot has a long pull and the following shots are shorter. You just need practice to get used to it. I prefer the same trigger pull on each shot.

I also have a KAHR MK40 Elite, and it has never caused me any problems. I think what you may have heard about Kahr's is from the older polymer framed guns. That has been fixed.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 1:55:32 PM EDT
You described yourwife as a "new shooter".

I think the best choice for carry for a new shooter is a snub .38 spl.

Easy to use/train, totally reliable, easy to pack and easy to shoot (recoil).

My choice is a Detective Special.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 2:02:21 PM EDT
tag...similar "problem" coming up next month when we both get our Ohio CCW.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 2:13:00 PM EDT
CZ RAMI in 9MM.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 5:43:29 PM EDT
id get her the 9mm.hell id get the 9mm myself.lets face it a carry gun should be very handie and she needs to be compfortable with said gun.imho i think the 40 cal is just a bit violent in the recoil department for a carry gun mostly and secondly for a female.
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 5:50:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scooper:
id get her the 9mm.hell id get the 9mm myself.lets face it a carry gun should be very handie and she needs to be compfortable with said gun.imho i think the 40 cal is just a bit violent in the recoil department for a carry gun mostly and secondly for a female.



Yeah, the 9mm holds 10rds also. But as far as recoil I'm not sure if .40s&w would be any more that if you have the pistol loaded with say Corbon +p ammo????
Link Posted: 12/5/2005 5:54:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:............snipped......
The Sig will serve well, but Sigs have the worst possible double action trigger known to man.
While I have no used for any Taurus Revolver, I do like some of thier autos...snipped..



I beg to differ I have a Taurus revolver and an Auto - both their triggers are functional ,
but not conducive to great shooting.

I also have a SIG P226 - and the DA trigger is as good if not better than ANY other Stock
DA Auto. The SIG Factory can also do a trigger job if you desire.

DixieKnight - whatever Fits your wifes hand and is easy for her to operate - that will be her"perfect" gun.

Link Posted: 12/6/2005 10:16:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:


..... but Sigs have the worst possible double action trigger known to man.



Ummmmm......no.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 11:30:45 AM EDT
I have a Sig P228 and it has a very nice trigger pull! If you want the worst trigger pull known to man try a FEG .380 auto, it hurts your fingers.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 1:18:14 PM EDT
The double action pull on my P239 9mm is sweeeeet, the single action pull taint bad either!My gun has been utterly reliable and very accurate.Only drawback has been the cost and availability of the 8rd. mags ,the stupid ten round mags are available everywhere!The pistol seems a little large for a single stack 9mm compared to a Kahr, But I would bet a weeks pay it will not give you a lick of trouble.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 1:22:49 PM EDT
Same pistol I got for my wife. Sweet little handgun. Hate the 8rd mags but it is on the small side compared to the 226 and 220 (239 on the right).

Link Posted: 12/6/2005 10:06:05 PM EDT
My wife has one and it has never hiccupped once. She uses Gold Dot's for protection ammo and they've always fed just fine. I personally don't care much for the gun but it is well built and reliable and that is the most important thing. If she tries one and likes how it shoots, shoots it well, it'd serve her well.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 10:34:56 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 11:26:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/6/2005 11:53:51 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By DixieKnight:
My wife has always shot my pistols and none of them seemed the right fit for her. My G23's handle is too big and my 1911 may not be the right choice for a new shooter to choose as a defensive weapon.

I want to buy her a pistol that she will shoot through all of her up coming training classes and later carry when she gets her carry permit.

I don't really like Sig but I know that they are quality firearms and Glocks are just too fat for her hands. Lesser quality firearms are out also. I don't really trust Khar, Taurus, and Kel-Tec. We looked at a Sig P239 that has a single stack mag of 7rds of .40s&w and the size of the gun is perfect for her. www.impactguns.com/store/sig_p239.html

Does anyone have any experience with this pistol? I'm not crazy about it being a double action auto but she might not have a problem with the different trigger pull the first round. We are going to see if any ranges close to us have any rental Sigs to shoot before we buy but I thought I'd also cheack here for opinions on this weapon.



My Sig P239 in .40 is my most carried CCW.
I also carry a P220, SA XD9 subcompact.

I must admit that the P239 is simply the one I find grabbing and carrying most often. It is comfortable to wear IWB and the butt is so short and low profile, it doesn't protrude. Heavy, yes, but just feels good. On the range, it has never failed to fire for me, not once in about 2500 rounds. I did not buy it new, but it has been 100% reliable and I would feel comfortable going in harms way with this pistol. Some will lament that it is single stack, but my double stack CCW, the XD9, I find is too wide to be really comfortable wearing all day. The P239 is MUCH thinner.

It's the smallest Sig in a real caliber, and one I feel confident will stop any threat I encounter. I always carry Ranger Talon JHP, the P239 is built like a tank and will shoot +P ammo like a champ with no worries. I had bought a Karh MK9, but after 100 rounds of +P the slide cracked in a critical area, and I returned it and got this Sig, I have never looked back.

I put the Hogue finger groove grips on since I have big hands and the grip is small, and that worked great. I also replaced the grip screws with hogue stainless ones since I sweat a lot on it in the summer.
The slide is already blackened stainless. It really doesn't buck to bad at all with +P .40, since it has a good weight to it.

As I said it is my favorite CCW next to my P220, but the big P220 is just too lomg to carry all the time. WIth the P239, a t-shirt, shorts or jeans, and I can carry IWB all day long and my wife can't tell. (She knows I carry 24/7, of course.

You can't go wrong with this little pistol. I would recommend .40 for stopping power, but it's a great pistol in all three calibers. Oh and the .357 barrels and mags swap out from .40 easily if you want two go between calibers. I have found .40 is a good choice for me.


Have her shoot one. A truly fantastic little pistol IMO!


pic taken before I replaced the grip screws with stainless.


ETA Don;t pay too much for these! Some dealers like to charge 1 arm, 1 leg for anything with Sig or HK on it. I found a local dealer (Bachman) that sells new P239s for $450. Look around, and check out the new dealers at the guns shows. You should not pay over $499 for a P239.
Link Posted: 12/6/2005 11:29:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 12:42:16 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:


The Sig will serve well, but Sigs have the worst possible double action trigger known to man.




I feel this is a matter of opinion. I much prefer the Sig triggers to the H&K, Beretta or SA 1911s and most others I have owned.

The first DA pull is not too bad IMO, though a bit long, but the single action is very nice. I don't find the trigger weight excessive. I think every one will have their own preference on this.

ETA - was carrying my P239 today. Although I have no problem with it as a CCW, the thought occured to me that it may be a bit on the heavy side for a petite or medium sized woman. A large woman probably would not have an issue. Not trying to be sexist - but my wife is 5'1"/110lbs and she feels it is too heavy for her to use for anything but the occasional range shooting session.

Definitely a "try before you buy" thing.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 12:28:30 PM EDT
I have a 9mm Sig P239 and IMHO it would make an excellent choice. I've shot it several times in IDPA and it has performed flawlessly. I have Hogue grips on it and it fits my hand well. The 1st trigger pull is long but smooth. The single action trigger pulls are short and crisp. It is my preferred gun for CCW. An excellent choice!

357mag
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 2:11:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 357mag:
I have a 9mm Sig P239 and IMHO it would make an excellent choice. I've shot it several times in IDPA and it has performed flawlessly. I have Hogue grips on it and it fits my hand well. The 1st trigger pull is long but smooth. The single action trigger pulls are short and crisp. It is my preferred gun for CCW. An excellent choice!

357mag



+1
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 6:47:53 PM EDT
There is a new Sig P239 model called the SAS(sig anti snag). It comes with a stainless steel side, black aluminum frame, Sig night sight, wood grips and the new DAK trigger which works like a double action trigger which will give your wife the simplicity of a revolver. The trigger pull is also lighter than the normal police pull. I like it so much Im going to pick one up for myself.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 10:39:58 PM EDT
I'm a total Sig whore.

That said, the P239 took some time for me to warm up to. I've decided that I really want one as backup to my P228. Tips on Sigs: some have amazing factory DA pulls (both P239's I've shot, and my SP2022), and some have really heavy DA pulls (my P228, primary carry gun). But it used, shoot at least 1,000 rounds thru it (two range trips max) and then if the trigger isn't smooth on the DA pull, have the Sig custom shop do an action job for you. This is money very well spent. All the Sigs I've ever shot (lots) had great 4-4.5 lb SA pulls. The P239 is a great size for small handed people.
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 8:35:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/10/2005 8:45:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:37:59 AM EDT
Good pick, try the SAS model too. Dealers here sell them , check the EE. I have shot the 9mm version and 40 cal at the gun shop range I used to work at and found the 9mm version a little more fun to shoot with the lighter recoil. But the 40 cal version was controlable too. I wouldnt buy or trust Kahr either....Moonies.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 2:56:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 6:04:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kpel308:
The only SIG I've ever owned was a 239, and I loved it. I would probably prefer the 245, but that option was not available at the time.

I will say that I hate 9mm out of a matter of personal preference, but out of the 9mm pistols available, I'll take a 239 or a CZ-75. No others.



The P239 is available in the 9mm, .40 S&W and .357 Sig calibers.
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:02:42 AM EDT
The single column Sigs have nice slim grips, but awful triggers.

I'd consider a Kahr in 9mm. Slim grip, reasonable trigger

I would avoid a .40 due to the sharp recoil impulse
Link Posted: 12/16/2005 10:48:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2005 10:53:21 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By a38337:
The single column Sigs have nice slim grips, but awful triggers.

I'd consider a Kahr in 9mm. Slim grip, reasonable trigger

I would avoid a .40 due to the sharp recoil impulse



The new Kahr MK9 I bought three years ago had a horrible double action trigger. Very smooth but terribly heavy DAO.
It developed a crack in the slide after 50 rounds of +P 9mm. I could have received a new one from Kahr, but ironically I let the dealer deal with them and traded it in for my current Sig P239 in .40, which was a used gun, even swap. After 3,000+ rounds of mixed +P and target ammo the thing has no cracks or failures.

The Kahrs are built way to light for anything but occasional practice with anything but target ammo IMO.
The Sigs are built like tanks.

Respect your opinion, but definitely do not agree, based on my experience with Kahr products.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 10:29:56 AM EDT
Sigs are built extremely well. I put over 10k through a P226 before I sold it, and it had no problems with accuracy or reliability.

Too bad about your experience with the Kahr. I was hoping they were better than that, based on feedback from two co-workers who own them.

Did you have any other issues with your Kahr?

The new Kahr MK9 I bought three years ago had a horrible double action trigger. Very smooth but terribly heavy DAO.
It developed a crack in the slide after 50 rounds of +P 9mm. I could have received a new one from Kahr, but ironically I let the dealer deal with them and traded it in for my current Sig P239 in .40, which was a used gun, even swap. After 3,000+ rounds of mixed +P and target ammo the thing has no cracks or failures.

The Kahrs are built way to light for anything but occasional practice with anything but target ammo IMO.
The Sigs are built like tanks.

Respect your opinion, but definitely do not agree, based on my experience with Kahr products.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 10:42:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:

While I have no used for any Taurus Revolver, I do like some of thier autos.




Just be careful with Taurus autoloaders. Some people seem to have trouble with them. I have one that has never had a problem (PT111 Millenium Pro) but I've also been told that some stores won't even stock them because of the high rate of returns. Hell, I'm even planning on getting rid of mine (maybe in the EE?) because I prefer the XD SC.
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 11:42:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2005 12:03:24 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By a38337:
Sigs are built extremely well. I put over 10k through a P226 before I sold it, and it had no problems with accuracy or reliability.

Too bad about your experience with the Kahr. I was hoping they were better than that, based on feedback from two co-workers who own them.

Did you have any other issues with your Kahr?



No other issues. The MK9 was a perfect little pocket pistol, other than the heavy DAO trigger, which was obviously that way for a purpose, and very well made. I got used to the DAO trigger quickly.
It was only when cleaning it after running the first 100 rounds through it that I noticed the hairline fracture on the front of the slide on the piece between the opening for the barrel and the opening for the op rod retainer - a full thickness hairline crack that went all the way back through the slide.
When the dealer saw it, they had no problem doing whatever I wanted, whether it was a new Kahr or an exchange for something else, or a full refund.

When I examined the slide in detail, I noted how thin the stainless steel really was in that area of the slide, really thin, IMO, too thin. It's no wonder it cracked with +P ammo, which is all I use for self defense. It's obvious it was built that way to save weight and be very a compact pistol in a full size caliber.

Other than that the Kahr was a pleasure to shoot and quite accurate for having such a short barrel, no malfunctions. I just would not recommend shooting +P ammo from it, even though it is approved for it by the manufacturer. Since they have a lifetime warranty, replacement would not have been a problem, but I just felt the MK9s were not built solid enough for my intended use.

Your results may vary.

Image showing area of crack (not my pistol)
Link Posted: 12/17/2005 12:00:29 PM EDT
I have a Sig P239 in 9mm that I use for CCW. I keep it loaded with Speer 124gr.+P Gold Dot ammo. It is very reliable, handy to carry and it also happens to fit my wife's hand very well.
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