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Posted: 11/23/2005 1:54:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 3:32:48 PM EDT by ryann]
I bought a Sig P229 last weekend in 357Sig caliber, and bought an extra .40 cal barrel. Last Saturday, using the new factory mags that came with it, I shot 63 357Sig rounds and 20 UMC "leadless" 180 grn bullets without a problem. I bought two used 229 mags for it, and took it out today to test the used (but in excellant shape) mags, and used up the 30 rounds of 180 grn .40 I had left. I had about 4 failures to go all the way into battery today shooting these 30 rounds. A slight nudge on the slide pushed it on forward.
I haven't cleaned the gun since new, just wiped off the factory cosmoline and fired it. Could it need cleaning, or could the mag springs in the used mags be weak and causing this? This is a duty gun, I haven't qualified with it yet though.
Like I say, it worked fine with the enclosed factory mags thru 83 rounds, so I'm guessing mags? Would it help to load the used mags with one less round?
Thanks
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 3:43:38 PM EDT
I don't think that it would be weak mag springs, to me (and I am by no means an expert, but I do have 3 229's) If the springs were weak it seems that you would get a failure to Feed, not a failure to go into battery.

Failure to go into battery should be dirty, maybe ammo not quite up to specs, or a slightly out of spec. chamber. Knowing Sig like I do, I would not think that the chamber would be the problem.

The first thing that I would jump on would be cleaning, then ammo.

Good luck I think that you will find the Sig line to be great guns, and the 229 especially. I can't say enough about .357sig either.


Stay Safe,
Matt
Link Posted: 11/23/2005 4:56:57 PM EDT
What he said. Clean the shit out of the gun, it should cure your problem, IMO.
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 2:29:52 AM EDT
Cleaning and lubricating the pistol and cleaning the magazines are obviously the first thing to try. SIG’s are often pretty fussy when they haven’t been lubricated.

FWIW, I had a somewhat similar problem with a new P229 in .40.

In my case it was pretty clearly the nitron finish, which is a bit abrasive and caused the pistol to function sluggishly

I very carefully stoned the top inside of the slide (about 3 inches in length) very slightly to make it slide a little easier along the barrel hood during cycling (where I think most the problem was). This didn’t show, it’s not a critical dimension, and the stainless steel slide doesn’t need the protective finish anyway.

This totally solved the problem.

I suspect putting a couple of hundred rounds downrange would have smoothed things out just as well. But I’m just a bit impatient.
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 7:15:41 AM EDT
Thanks for all of the replys
Link Posted: 11/24/2005 3:32:46 PM EDT
I forgot to mention that the P229 I had came with a highly polished breechface – the nitron finish had been completely removed. I suspect this is also an area of friction.

Presumably your breechface has also been polished.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 9:24:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 199:

SIG’s are often pretty fussy when they haven’t been lubricated.





So are women!!!!
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 1:10:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2005 1:55:01 PM EDT by ryann]
Ok-I took this gun out again, after cleaning it well. I don't have a .40 brush, but I cleaned the .40 barrell with a .357 boresnake, and scrubbed with cloth down the barrell with brakefree. Anyhow, I shot 100 rounds of Sig357 WWB, and 100 rounds of .40 WWB.
I had about 4 failures to go into complete battery with the .40 barrel and ammo, but NO PROBLEMS SHOOTING THE 357Sig.
I'm thinking perhaps there's a burr in the barrell, or something wrong with the feed ramp of the .40 barrel thats invisible to the naked eye? Since it functions fine with over 150 rounds of Sig 357, and altogther I'm had probably 8 or 9 failures to go into battery with the .40 barrel, the problem is probably the barrel instead of the gun?
I need to get out and get a .40 cal brass brush and clean the hell out of it I know, but I think I've narrowed it to the barrel. Any advice or thoughts? Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 2:11:08 PM EDT
I think your 40 S&W barrel may have insufficient headspace, or, perhaps a small bur at the throat area of the chamber. I would take a piece of wooden dowel and a small piece of 400 or 600 grit wet or dry sandpaper and very carefully insert it into the chamber. I would then turn the dowel exactly 1 turn of 360 degrees using very light pressure and polish the throat/leade area of the chamber. It would really be best to use a 40 S&W reamer but they are quite expensive. Be very careful and go SLOW. Charles the Gunsmith.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 2:12:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ryann:
... I think I've narrowed it to the barrel. ...


Not sure that’s necessarily the problem.

In my limited experience with .357 Sig, it seems to feed quite a bit easier than the .40 S&W. Thus it may be the cartridge design that makes the .357 work so reliably, rather than any external difference in the two barrels.

You do have the recoil spring on the recoil spring guide correctly – right? (Tight end goes on the guide first: “tight is right”.)

A dirty bore shouldn’t cause this problem; a dirty chamber certainly could.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 5:48:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2005 5:51:14 PM EDT by VBC]
Chamber of the .40 cal bbl probably just needs to be scrubbed free of gunk with the proper sized brush and your favorite liquid helper.
Scrub it good, then swab clean, then look with light. If the chamber is not completely shiny, then repeat until it is free of any blemishes.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 8:07:05 PM EDT
Is the barrel a factory Sig barrel? If you are still having problems send it to Sig, they'll probobly fix/fit it for free. Let us know how everything works out. I have a P229R in .40 and I have thought about getting a .357 barrel. I wonder if I would have the same problem?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:04:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JCG4:
Is the barrel a factory Sig barrel? If you are still having problems send it to Sig, they'll probobly fix/fit it for free. Let us know how everything works out. I have a P229R in .40 and I have thought about getting a .357 barrel. I wonder if I would have the same problem?



I have the spring on right, I haven't even taken it off the guide rod as it came from the factory.
The barrel is a factory Sig, I bought it when I bought the gun. I just bought a funky brass brush called a "tornado" so I'm gonna scrub it out good, then see what happens. I'm a LEO, and we have full time armorers at our range (who are all Sig certified, as Sig is the gun my department issues) so I'll take it out there before I give in and send it back.
I may go shoot again today, I'll post an update.
Thanks for all the interest.

Link Posted: 11/27/2005 9:12:18 AM EDT
Ryann - It sounds like you have a slight Fit problem with your extra barrel.

This is not uncommon even with Factory Sig barrels.

It might wear in after enough shooting.

You can have SIG fit the barrel - ( will need to send barrel and slide to them at least)
or you can do it yourself.

In any event - READ THIS POST from the SigForum.com

sigforum.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/150601935/m/52710933/r/52710933#52710933
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 10:40:53 AM EDT
I'm betting on a rough feed ramp as the culprit instead of the chamber. Wouldn't be the first time a barrel left the factory w/o it being perfect, regardless of brand. I'm tinking a bit of light polishing on the feed ramp will allow a bit smoother flow into the chamber & the slide won't have that bit of resistance to overcome.

Sig, at one time, used two different recoil springs on the .40/.357 combos they made. Would this still be a need today???????
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 12:15:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
Ryann - It sounds like you have a slight Fit problem with your extra barrel.

This is not uncommon even with Factory Sig barrels.

It might wear in after enough shooting.

You can have SIG fit the barrel - ( will need to send barrel and slide to them at least)
or you can do it yourself.

In any event - READ THIS POST from the SigForum.com

sigforum.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/150601935/m/52710933/r/52710933#52710933



Thanks, I bookmarked that thread for a later read.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 12:21:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 12:22:38 PM EDT by ryann]
OK, I took it out again today, shot 100 rounds of Sellier/Bellott ammo. I think it may be breaking in, because I had no failures to go forward into battery this time WHILE SHOOTING. I did experience about 4-6 failures to go into battery when dropping the slide release to chamber a round. I realize that the better way to recharge the gun is to slingshot it, but I often practice reloading by inserting a mag and dropping the slide release in the event one hand was immobilized. Again, that was all the problems I had, shooting it was 100%. I'll take it to my department armorer this week and hear what he has to say about it. It's not the end of the world, our authorized caliber is 357Sig, and I've fired so far 213 rounds without a hitch in this caliber.
I'm really leaning towards a good polishing, as I've said earlier all our armorers have been to Sig schools, they (for cops) are actually damn good gunsmiths.

I'll post what they say.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:55:08 PM EDT
i'm curious as to whether you marked your mags and found the problem to be from a certain mag. You mentioned some used mags were being used. Perhaps they were ditched by their previous owner due to problems.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 3:51:39 AM EDT
Sometimes new SIG barrels and even new barrels already in new guns have a burr on the bottom of the lug where it mates up with the locking block. You can usually remove it with a knife sharpening stone. Don't go crazy on it just use it to smooth down the burr. It will remove a slight amount of the blueing in that area.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 11:43:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sigarkar:
i'm curious as to whether you marked your mags and found the problem to be from a certain mag. You mentioned some used mags were being used. Perhaps they were ditched by their previous owner due to problems.


I discovered the problem shooting a couple of used mags, but I've eliminated the mags as the problem.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 3:41:04 PM EDT
I took this gun to my LEO range yesterday, and showed it to one of the top gunsmiths that's been to Sig Armorers school. Apparantly the problem is the overhang at the top of the barrel where it hangs over the chamber (I'm not sure of the correct nomenclature here).
The RO & gunsmith said sometimes these have to be lightly filed to conform to the gun, but upon inspecting my barrel in the slide he concluded that the gun and the barrel were locking up fine, and I probably broke it in by shooting.
Afterwards, I shot 50 more .40 thru the barrel and it went into full battery every time, even from the slide stop position, confirming what he said (the chamber was fine).
So, I guess sometimes you just have to break some guns in, maybe especially so since the .40 barrel was an extra purchase and not fitted to the gun from the factory.
Thought I'd pass it on..BTW, these guys are full time Range Officers and Armorers on my department, it's what they do and they've been to all the schools, and they're as knowledgeable as anybody on our duty firearms (Glock, Beretta, Sig, Remington and Colt /Rock River AR's).
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 5:12:26 PM EDT
You're describing the barrel "hood", where it fits into the slide. A firm lockup usually makes for best accuracy & maybe that particular Sig fitter left it to "break itself in"????

Link Posted: 12/22/2005 4:18:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BobCole:
You're describing the barrel "hood", where it fits into the slide. A firm lockup usually makes for best accuracy & maybe that particular Sig fitter left it to "break itself in"????




Barrel hood sounds right.......apparantly it left the factory rough? Anyway the gun with the .40 barrel works fine now.......is it possible that since the barrel was a separate purchase that it wasn't fitted to a particular slide from the factory?

Anyway, our range guys seem to know their business, they've looked at literally thousands of Sigs as that's the issue gun on my 3,000 officer agency.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 3:48:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ryann:

is it possible that since the barrel was a separate purchase that it wasn't fitted to a particular slide from the factory?





Possible, if you bought it used. If it's a Sig barrel, I don't know why they would have swapped it out????
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