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Posted: 11/12/2019 12:52:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M: The difference is being inexperienced and panicking when the dot isn't present. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XdyPQ3nCbc 
Yea, that's me. Inexperienced. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 12:54:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Venom is shitty. Go with a Holosun 507/508 if you’re on a budget. I don't want to have to remove the optic to replace the battery. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 12:55:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Unk. We thought it was the battery dying, but the dot would randomly cut out while firing. When we tried to take swap the battery, the screw stripped - making it unserviceable. This is apparently a common issue. When I got to work this morning, another coworker had the same problem recently. It's so common that our local gunsmith has a flat rate fee for it. I've been running the same slide and screws for 2 years now with near 10,000 rounds on one gun. I had a RMR RM01 Type 1 with a Battlewerx Anti-Flicker Plate for 13 months and the rest of the time was with a RMR RM06 Type 2 and Trijicon Seal Plate. No issues with flickering or stripped screws on either. Funny how that works. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 12:55:56 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y:
Yea, that's me. Inexperienced. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 12:56:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Unk. We thought it was the battery dying, but the dot would randomly cut out while firing. When we tried to take swap the battery, the screw stripped - making it unserviceable. This is apparently a common issue. When I got to work this morning, another coworker had the same problem recently. It's so common that our local gunsmith has a flat rate fee for it. Because that fixes 99% of issues. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 12:57:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Not a budget issue. I don't want to have to remove the optic to replace the battery. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 12:58:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M: That didn't answer the question. Since you mentioned flickering, I'm assuming you were using a Type 1. If that were the case, did the gun have a Battlewerx Anti-Flicker plate? Did the screw strip or did the hole strip? I've been running the same slide and screws for 2 years now with near 10,000 rounds on one gun. I had a RMR RM01 Type 1 with a Battlewerx Anti-Flicker Plate for 13 months and the rest of the time was with a RMR RM06 Type 2 and Trijicon Seal Plate. No issues with flickering or stripped screws on either. Funny how that works. Your experience is anecdotal. Your attitude is getting old, though. Fix it. I think it's interesting that our local smith sees this enough that he's put it on his "flat rate services" list, though. That, and two guys sitting 10 feet from me both had the same two issues with the same optic. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 12:58:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: I don’t want to have to pay taxes but it only has to be done once a year. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 1:00:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Does the flat rate fee include swapping to a Duracell and adding the $10 sealing plate? Because that fixes 99% of issues. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 1:00:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M:
Apparently swapping a battery once a year being a burden due to stripping screws because you paid for shoddy workmanship is a common issue. 
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Posted: 11/12/2019 1:02:00 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M:
Seems that way. You've ignored numerous reference materials and base your opinion on your admitted lack of experience with RDS. What is my opinion? I'd like to know. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 1:08:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Not my gun. It was the screw head. Your experience is anecdotal. Your attitude is getting old, though. Fix it. I think it's interesting that our local smith sees this enough that he's put it on his "flat rate services" list, though. That, and two guys sitting 10 feet from me both had the same two issues with the same optic. What specific gun? Milled slide? Who milled it? What screws were used? Was an Anti-Flicker plate used if it was a Type 1 RMR? Was a seal plate used if it was a Type 2 RMR? What you are saying is also anecdotal, so that's a moot point. If you don't want anecdotal, watch the MANY videos that have been posted. Who is your local smith? How many RDS slides come through his shop? If you're only experience with RDS guns is from a few guns that all came from the same place with all the same issues, then your opinion doesn't hold much weight. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 1:09:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: These are factory guns. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 1:17:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M:
Glocks? Sigs? FN? You sure like to point the finger, but you walk and talk in circles. Both Glock MOS, one is a 19 one is a 17. The one that was cutting out on us this weekend was the Trijicon RMR Type 2 6.5 MOA. The other one was a Trijicon RMR Type 2 3.25 MOA. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 1:20:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bcauz3y]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M:
What you are saying is also anecdotal, so that's a moot point. If you don't want anecdotal, watch the MANY videos that have been posted. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M:
What you are saying is also anecdotal, so that's a moot point. If you don't want anecdotal, watch the MANY videos that have been posted. Originally Posted By DAVE_M:
If you're only experience with RDS guns is from a few guns that all came from the same place with all the same issues, then your opinion doesn't hold much weight. Again, fix your attitude. There is zero need to be shitty. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 1:27:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Of course what I'm saying is anecdotal. I'm simply pointing out that your attitude of "well my shit is fine" means no more than the 100% percent failure of Trij optics in the tiny sample size I have. Please, take the time to read and comprehend what's being said. Again, fix your attitude. There is zero need to be shitty. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 1:41:53 PM EDT
[#17]
What's crazy to me is the RMR (type 1) was never developed as a dedicated pistol optic. It was a back up sight for another magnified optic.
The type 2 was redesigned specifically for pistol use. Unfortunately, with the type 1 there are some things that should be done to make it "pistol reliable. A slight bend in the side battery compartment (very slight, very carefully) and an anti flicker plate. Double points for a small square of electrical tape on the bottom of the battery. I can't speak to the the type 2 other than I believe there were manufacturing issues with early run. Stripped screws often indicate over torque or improper thread lock. Using pinpoint heat, like a soldering iron, can be super helpful in removing the screws without stripping the heads. Ensuring proper torque and using proper thread lock is important. If one is worried about removing the optic to swap batteries, then the DPP and ACRO are your best bet. Reportedly, the ACRO has some serious benefits over other optics both in dot acquisition and with NODs, while suffering poor battery life if left on 24/7. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 1:47:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
What's crazy to me is the RMR (type 1) was never developed as a dedicated pistol optic. It was a back up sight for another magnified optic. The type 2 was redesigned specifically for pistol use. Unfortunately, with the type 1 there are some things that should be done to make it "pistol reliable. A slight bend in the side battery compartment (very slight, very carefully) and an anti flicker plate. Double points for a small square of electrical tape on the bottom of the battery. I can't speak to the the type 2 other than I believe there were manufacturing issues with early run. Stripped screws often indicate over torque or improper thread lock. Using pinpoint heat, like a soldering iron, can be super helpful in removing the screws without stripping the heads. Ensuring proper torque and using proper thread lock is important. If one is worried about removing the optic to swap batteries, then the DPP and ACRO are your best bet. Reportedly, the ACRO has some serious benefits over other optics both in dot acquisition and with NODs, while suffering poor battery life if left on 24/7. I agree with the stripped screw issue, that's most certainly an installation/user induced issue. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 2:08:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TCBA_Joe]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y: Good info, I'm looking into DPP reliability now. I'm also having trouble finding holsters with retention that work with RDS equipped pistols. The only reputable one I can find is the safariland, and it's out of stock with a 1 year back order everywhere I've looked so far. I agree with the stripped screw issue, that's most certainly an installation/user induced issue. Long Shadow and OTG come to mind. There's mixed reviews on the DPP. Some have had issues with its durability, others (like USMS SOG) have not. I only have a couple hundred rounds on mine so I can't speak to it long term. The RMR is more rugged, it also has better and more intuitive controls and the best battery life The DPP is more "shootable" and has an externally available battery. The controls suck and its not as rugged while having a shorter battery life. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 2:27:54 PM EDT
[#20]
That's exactly what I was hunting for. Thanks! |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 2:30:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
If you're not carrying it on duty, and don't want to wait for Safariland, then there are all kinds of decent retention holsters on the market. Long Shadow and OTG come to mind. There's mixed reviews on the DPP. Some have had issues with its durability, others (like USMS SOG) have not. I only have a couple hundred rounds on mine so I can't speak to it long term. The RMR is more rugged, it also has better and more intuitive controls and the best battery life The DPP is more "shootable" and has an externally available battery. The controls suck and its not as rugged while having a shorter battery life. The DPP is not recommended for duty use because of durability concerns. Same with vortex, sig, Trijicon SRO, and some others His top 3 are: RMT type 2- I believe he has over 20k on one of these- He has had some break early though, but they seem to be most consistant Aimpoint ACRO- Batterry life is big concern Holosun 507c- Has over 10k on one, also has been testing 508 with good results These 3 are rated for "duty use" by him. He isnt the only guy to take advice from, but i believe he can be viewed as an "Authority" with pistol mounted rds due to his extensive testing and his White Paper White Paper |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 2:31:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y:
I'm looking into DPP reliability now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y:
I'm looking into DPP reliability now. Battery life is horrible, but if it's a range toy or competition gun, just bring spare batteries. I have a pair of DP Pro red dot sights I am running on Glock MOS pistols. They seem to be eating batteries, as in one or more a week. I just hung up with Leupold, and they told me their testing showed the battery to last six days when left on.
I asked how that was going to work on a carry gun. Silence. DP Pro update. In early May, Leupold sent me four new replacement optics, and elected to keep my four broken DP Pro units to evaluate.
I had the first of the four new DP Pro units direct milled onto a CZ P09 slide by Primary Machine. So far, it has run without issue. Best estimate is 3,000 rounds. I also had another P09 slide direct milled with a DP Pro from my existing stash, that I peeled off a Glock MOS. Only 300 or so rounds through that one, but so far so good. Battery failed Sept 15, replaced with Duracell.
The replacement battery failed today, Sept 22. I am getting about a week w Yesterday, my friend who shoots CO just broke his eighth DP Pro this year. The unit would not wake up when drawing from the holster, during his practice session. He shoots a lot, as in just breaking 80,000 rounds of CO this year, so overall that is about 10,000 rounds between failures.
He also just had a detonation in a 320 X5, where the pistol fired slightly out of battery, his second instance this has happened. Blew the ejector out, hurt his hands, but no other damage. That pistol will head back to Sig. I think the RMR is a better carry optic because of size, battery life and back up iron integration. The Pro is a better gaming optic. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 2:35:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Dang.
I was really hoping for a top-load battery, but it looks like there simply aren't any out there that are proven. Fair enough. Thanks for the info. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 2:43:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: At any distance you can make hits with fucked up irons you can also make hits with a fucked up dot. Some may continue to "look" for the dot under stress/Duress vs. take a shot and then adjust from there.. Remember, there are many who advocate Point shooting, which relies on neither irons or a RDS... I'm not in the camp, but many are... as well as the .380 in my pocket crowd.... |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 2:44:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: Venom is shitty. Go with a Holosun 507/508 if you’re on a budget. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 2:50:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y:
Dang. I was really hoping for a top-load battery, but it looks like there simply aren't any out there that are proven. Fair enough. Thanks for the info. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 2:51:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harv24: Not if you keep looking for it.... that's the point many are making at close range... Some may continue to "look" for the dot under stress/Duress vs. take a shot and then adjust from there.. Remember, there are many who advocate Point shooting, which relies on neither irons or a RDS... I'm not in the camp, but many are... as well as the .380 in my pocket crowd.... Every individual needs to figure out what they are capable of. That's sort of... kinda like... um... practice. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 2:55:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 45-Seventy]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harv24: Not if you keep looking for it.... that's the point many are making at close range... Some may continue to "look" for the dot under stress/Duress vs. take a shot and then adjust from there.. Remember, there are many who advocate Point shooting, which relies on neither irons or a RDS... I'm not in the camp, but many are... as well as the .380 in my pocket crowd.... |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/12/2019 3:14:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: If people are going to be slow out of simple retardation that’s on them. They can make the choice to unfuck themselves or not. It has no bearing on the equipment. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 5:27:30 PM EDT
[#30]
The RMR has been a Godsend for my aging eyes. I am not going to waste my time trying to convince anyone since it is still a free country, etc.
The Dueck defense mount makes this all easy peasy!  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 7:27:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: If people are going to be slow out of simple retardation that’s on them. They can make the choice to unfuck themselves or not. It has no bearing on the equipment. There are going to be those who believe a MRDS is a Talisman and will give them a level of skill far and above there actual skill level. Same crowd that figures a small .380 in a pocket is. RDS on a rifle adapted much quicker because there was little to no learning curve...Shoulder the rifle....there's the dot.... every time. Plus there is enough room for error that you were still making good, fast hits. RDS on a pistol...different animal...requires a level of repeatability that only comes from a near perfect draw stroke/Presentation...each and every time....And the majority of shooters are lazy, and won't put in the work. Just the way it is. Handgun RDS's been around since the 70's....but most of us are no Rob Leatham. |
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Posted: 11/12/2019 9:04:59 PM EDT
[#32]
1 hr into the P&S podcast. Will finish it tomorrow.
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Posted: 11/14/2019 5:49:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Fooboy]
[#33]
Replaced my RMR battery I installed last OCT. No signs of running low, just did it proactively.
Screws were witness marked so torqued to same spot. First 3 rounds @ 15Y (verified distance). The replacing battery zero stuff seems like a non issue.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/14/2019 6:52:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fooboy:
Replaced my RMR battery I installed last OCT. No signs of running low, just did it proactively. Screws were witness marked so torqued to same spot. First 3 rounds @ 15Y (verified distance). The replacing battery zero stuff seems like a non issue. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/113559/243AF3AD-93CD-4E04-A190-C25634D913E9_jpeg-1160783.JPG It's only an issue if I over-torque, red locktite and strip the screws.  If you've got a shot timer, hit up the BAER drill next time. I like to run it cold to make it as realistic as possible if I were carrying out and about. |
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Posted: 11/14/2019 11:11:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M:
But you did generalize that everyone sucks at shooting and even said that you won't have a perfect presentation when you're at social and contact distances, so if you can't see your dot, you sure as hell don't see your sights. I can see the front sight on my pistol when the gun is under my chin during the drawstroke. I can make accurate shots at close range with the front sight completely out of the rear sight's notch...circumstances where the dot on an optic isn't visible. To see a dot in the window of an optic you have to have the front sight somewhere in the rear notch. The sights are visible if the front sight is aligned, say, outside the rear sight entirely, but the dot isn't visible. I said most people suck at shooting past ten yards because after twenty years of being involved in training I've noted that most people fucking suck at shooting past 10 yards. There are a number of reasons for this, but their inability to manage their sights is a contributing factor. Try decaf, sport. |
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Posted: 11/14/2019 11:16:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y:
It's only an issue if I over-torque, red locktite and strip the screws. If you've got a shot timer, hit up the BAER drill next time. I like to run it cold to make it as realistic as possible if I were carrying out and about. 
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Posted: 11/14/2019 11:18:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: That specifically? No. However, you’re making far too many generalizations regarding use and capability. From your comments it seems as if you have some issues with your presentation and are projecting those upon others shooters. In addition to open enrollment I and my partners teach LE. I spent all day yesterday on the range with a department working with their firearms instructors and we had to spend an hour working on the gear placement on their vests because every single one of them had a fouled draw with the muzzle catching on their equipment. And that's just standing static. That's not projection, that's the shit that you actually encounter out in the world when dealing with users who aren't enthusiasts. |
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Posted: 11/14/2019 11:23:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: John_Wayne777]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M:
If misaligned irons are "good enough" to fire a shot, then your dot outside of the window is good enough also. If one's irons are misaligned, you can see how they are misaligned. If my front sight is sitting to the right of my rear sight entirely, I can see that as I'm presenting the gun to the target, and with that information I can make an intelligent correction. If I have no iron sights on my pistol and bring the gun out with the exact same orientation, I can't see the dot but I don't have any ready visual cues as to how exactly the gun is misaligned. That is why people who actually know what the fuck they are doing strongly encourage a set of co-witnessing sights and train to use the sights to find the dot when it isn't visible. This is a useful practice, especially on those occasions when your presentation from the holster isn't ideal. I mean, I'm sure you never have an imperfect draw stroke, but I assure you that the rest of humanity occasionally fucks up their draw under stress. Decaf, sport. And maybe spend a little more time listening before you start arguing. |
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Posted: 11/15/2019 9:50:27 AM EDT
[#39]
Just wanted to add.
I've replaced several RMRs to replace the batteries over the years. I haven't had to adjust the poi at all if the mount has lugs built in. Every good mount I've seen has lugs built in. Most recently I replaced my shockwave rmr. I zero at 50 yards with Remington low recoil slugs and did not touch the zero. Removing the sight for PM is probably the most overblown issues with RMRs imo. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2019 9:51:01 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John_Wayne777: No, I witness those issues in other shooters. I've taught a dozen pistol classes this year and every dot shooter I've had in class save one has had significant issues with his presentation. That one guy had trained with someone else who had already done work to help him address those issues...the same way I addressed the issues with the shooters I encountered. In addition to open enrollment I and my partners teach LE. I spent all day yesterday on the range with a department working with their firearms instructors and we had to spend an hour working on the gear placement on their vests because every single one of them had a fouled draw with the muzzle catching on their equipment. And that's just standing static. That's not projection, that's the shit that you actually encounter out in the world when dealing with users who aren't enthusiasts. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John_Wayne777: No, I witness those issues in other shooters. I've taught a dozen pistol classes this year and every dot shooter I've had in class save one has had significant issues with his presentation. That one guy had trained with someone else who had already done work to help him address those issues...the same way I addressed the issues with the shooters I encountered. In addition to open enrollment I and my partners teach LE. I spent all day yesterday on the range with a department working with their firearms instructors and we had to spend an hour working on the gear placement on their vests because every single one of them had a fouled draw with the muzzle catching on their equipment. And that's just standing static. That's not projection, that's the shit that you actually encounter out in the world when dealing with users who aren't enthusiasts. Originally Posted By John_Wayne777: That's utter nonsense. I can see the front sight on my pistol when the gun is under my chin during the drawstroke. I can make accurate shots at close range with the front sight completely out of the rear sight's notch...circumstances where the dot on an optic isn't visible. To see a dot in the window of an optic you have to have the front sight somewhere in the rear notch. The sights are visible if the front sight is aligned, say, outside the rear sight entirely, but the dot isn't visible. I said most people suck at shooting past ten yards because after twenty years of being involved in training I've noted that most people fucking suck at shooting past 10 yards. There are a number of reasons for this, but their inability to manage their sights is a contributing factor. Try decaf, sport. Originally Posted By John_Wayne777: This is also bullshit. If one's irons are misaligned, you can see how they are misaligned. If my front sight is sitting to the right of my rear sight entirely, I can see that as I'm presenting the gun to the target, and with that information I can make an intelligent correction. If I have no iron sights on my pistol and bring the gun out with the exact same orientation, I can't see the dot but I don't have any ready visual cues as to how exactly the gun is misaligned. That is why people who actually know what the fuck they are doing strongly encourage a set of co-witnessing sights and train to use the sights to find the dot when it isn't visible. This is a useful practice, especially on those occasions when your presentation from the holster isn't ideal. I mean, I'm sure you never have an imperfect draw stroke, but I assure you that the rest of humanity occasionally fucks up their draw under stress. Decaf, sport. And maybe spend a little more time listening before you start arguing. Your comments are indicative of someone who hasn't spent much time with a RDS pistol. |
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Posted: 11/15/2019 9:53:20 AM EDT
[#41]
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777: This is also bullshit. If one's irons are misaligned, you can see how they are misaligned. If my front sight is sitting to the right of my rear sight entirely, I can see that as I'm presenting the gun to the target, and with that information I can make an intelligent correction. If I have no iron sights on my pistol and bring the gun out with the exact same orientation, I can't see the dot but I don't have any ready visual cues as to how exactly the gun is misaligned. That is why people who actually know what the fuck they are doing strongly encourage a set of co-witnessing sights and train to use the sights to find the dot when it isn't visible. This is a useful practice, especially on those occasions when your presentation from the holster isn't ideal. I mean, I'm sure you never have an imperfect draw stroke, but I assure you that the rest of humanity occasionally fucks up their draw under stress. Decaf, sport. And maybe spend a little more time listening before you start arguing. You have put into words my thoughts on dots. I want to try them and I will, and I will give it a good shot. But it gets old when I see the same thing posted over and over about everything is predicated to your "Imperfect" draw. and if you only correct that, the Dot will be great. and I get that, but I too live in the real world and having an Imperfect draw is not a question of if.... For me, time will tell... I get one on, I'll spend time with it... and I will decide if it's worth it or not. |
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Posted: 11/15/2019 10:09:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: John_Wayne777]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harv24:
For me, time will tell... I get one on, I'll spend time with it... and I will decide if it's worth it or not. I think it's especially important to get hold of one if you are going to teach. That's why I bought a Gen5 G17 MOS and put an ACRO on it...because I know there are a couple of large organizations who are looking very hard at G17 and G19 MOS pistols with an ACRO on it. |
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Posted: 11/15/2019 10:25:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 45-Seventy]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M: LOL... you are quite pompous. Your comments are indicative of someone who hasn't spent much time with a RDS pistol. He’s parroting all of the most common points I hear from those who are inexperienced with MRDS. |
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Posted: 11/15/2019 10:28:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M:
LOL... you are quite pompous. Your comments are indicative of someone who hasn't spent much time with a RDS pistol. |
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Posted: 11/15/2019 10:29:38 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harv24: I love you man... (No Homo) You have put into words my thoughts on dots. I want to try them and I will, and I will give it a good shot. But it gets old when I see the same thing posted over and over about everything is predicated to your "Imperfect" draw. and if you only correct that, the Dot will be great. and I get that, but I too live in the real world and having an Imperfect draw is not a question of if.... For me, time will tell... I get one on, I'll spend time with it... and I will decide if it's worth it or not. The fact that people who are burning over ten or twenty thousand rounds a year, like myself, are coming to the same conclusions should be what you call a clue. |
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Posted: 11/15/2019 10:33:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bcauz3y]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: You hear the same thing over and over again because they have been found to be true over and over again. The fact that people who are burning over ten or twenty thousand rounds a year, like myself, are coming to the same conclusions should be what you call a clue. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2019 11:10:50 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Exactly this. He’s parroting all of the most common points I hear from those who are inexperienced with MRDS. Then they get angry when you disagree with their uninformed opinion of something they have little experience with. |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2019 11:13:02 AM EDT
[#48]
This is BJ Norris.
This is BJ Norris' Carry Optics pistol. BJ Norris' Carry Optics pistol has no iron sights. BJ Norris is a champion shooter with his pistol that doesn't have iron sights. 
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Posted: 11/15/2019 11:30:27 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DAVE_M:
This is BJ Norris. This is BJ Norris' Carry Optics pistol. BJ Norris' Carry Optics pistol has no iron sights. BJ Norris is a champion shooter with his pistol that doesn't have iron sights. https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/4d860e3fd1c7c1e41799d8341107ccfa/5DE942ED/t51.2885-15/e35/66120362_143794390017710_4812960540578080428_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com&se=7&ig_cache_key=MjA4MzYyMjgwNTUwNDU2ODc1OQ%3D%3D.2 |
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LA, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2019 11:33:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John_Wayne777:
If one's irons are misaligned, you can see how they are misaligned. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By John_Wayne777:
If one's irons are misaligned, you can see how they are misaligned. Originally Posted By John_Wayne777: If my front sight is sitting to the right of my rear sight entirely, I can see that as I'm presenting the gun to the target, and with that information I can make an intelligent correction. Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
If I have no iron sights on my pistol and bring the gun out with the exact same orientation, I can't see the dot but I don't have any ready visual cues as to how exactly the gun is misaligned. Originally Posted By John_Wayne777: That is why people who actually know what the fuck they are doing strongly encourage a set of co-witnessing sights and train to use the sights to find the dot when it isn't visible. Originally Posted By John_Wayne777: I mean, I'm sure you never have an imperfect draw stroke, but I assure you that the rest of humanity occasionally fucks up their draw under stress. |
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