...and someone who gets butt-hurt will claim you said something you didn't.  I in no way, shape, or form EVER said or implied the Berretta was a POS.  I said I don't like them and wouldn't buy one.  I also recognize everyone is different and what I like or dislike is preference, not rule.

As to the bore axis issue; it reminds me of the people who run to the doctor after reading an article on some health issue- they will it into being.  You aren't going to get me to believe anyone can tell the difference in bore height between any of the modern semi-autos.

Pretty sure I misinterpreted your first post.  I was under the impression you didn’t like the Beretta’s high bore axis but liked the Sig.

I agree bore axis is blown way out of proportion.

It's sometimes fun to read these "Which one would you choose" threads. Fact is that is it just personal preference and nothing more

I have tried to like Sigs, having bought and sold four of them over the years. I have had a P228, P229, P220 and most recently a P320. I have tried hard to like them. But, I just can't. I don't like the feel of them in my hand, nor the thickness of them, nor how the shoot.

I kept the P320 for 18 months and shot hundreds and hundreds of rounds through it. It had to go back to Sig since it shot waaaaayyyyy silly high out of the box. They replaced the sights under warranty and it then shot fine. Mine was an early model and the trigger would pinch a big bloody blister on my trigger finger in less than a box of ammo. I fixed that with an Apex flat trigger. And I continued to pump hundreds of rounds through it, trying to like and get used to it. I eventually came to realize that no matter how much dry fire time or live fire time I spent with the gun I just didn't like it.

So I sold it, just a couple of months before the whole uproar occurred over the 320 firing when dropped.

I can't say much bad about the four Sigs I've owned except they just aren't for me. On the other hand I've bought three Berettas since 1991 and still own all three.

For me, the choice is easily the Beretta as the best gun. For me. Your own choice may be different and that's OK. It's just personal preference and nothing more, no matter what the Sig fans or Beretta fans may argue. Pick one and enjoy the shooting.

The finish issues on the Legion really concern me, and based on the posts (some backed up with pics that look real hard to fake), I feel it's real.

It's not just the finish issues, but rather SIGs QC in general these days. Current production SIG firearms are not held to the same standard as they were 10 years ago.  Back when SIG was actually concerned with producing a quality product instead of offering the same product in 20+ different finish options to appeal to the skinny jean wearing sexually confused hipsters...

All the manufactures are doing this now because everyone wants different colors.  You know the guys who are all "MUH FDE"....  I just wish the makers would stick with nitriding the steel, anodizing the aluminium, and if you want a special hipster color cerakote over it.  But what do I know all my pistols are either stainless steel or black I know I am boring when it comes to color.

Exactly.

I flew cargo jets all over the world for my 20 in the Air Force and the biggest thing I learned was different isn't wrong, it's just... different.  There are some cultural oddities out there that would make your skin crawl, and we have some they don't understand.  The whole thing about these preference threads is how some people take it as an insult if you don't agree with their preference (not you in particular, but how they generally go).  Back in the late 70s early 80s I'd see kids on the school bus wanting to start a fist fight because some kid didn't like their favorite rock band.  Somewhat reminds me of how people react to preference threads.

Anyway, I like the Legion series, and right now I'm weighing the pros and cons selling off my S&W 1076 and dozen mags to preorder the P220 Legion in 10mm.  Berretta does nothing for me unless I happen to watch Blackhawk Down; then I think I might want an M9, but an hour or so afterwards it wears off.  

Neither the beretta nor the Sig will be everyone's cup of tea.

TLDR:If you have not put a ton of rounds through a Sig P series gun I would skip the legion and get the brigadier.

I always carried plastic striker fired guns but about a year and a half ago I fell in love with the Sig m11a1(basically a p229) and it became my everyday carry gun. A few weeks ago I picked up a p229 legion as my second sig and it is a significant improvement over my m11a1, but unless you have spent allot of time and put a bunch of rounds through a sig p series gun you probably won't notice the subtle changes that make the legion guns great nor benefit from those changes.

The trigger is excellent for DA/SA even compared to the already great sig SRT. The Legion trigger guard and frame undercuts coupled with the low profile legion grips and p224 slide release give me an excellent grip and remove the slide lock issues I have had with full size sig slide releases. Front slide serrations have never been my thing but the legion serrations seem to work well to manipulate the slide from the front. The legions sights seem to be sig night lite sights with an added daylight visible front sight. Another plus for me is the p229 legion taking the same magazines as my m11a1 so I didn't have to buy 20 more magazines.

If you have not put a ton of rounds through a P series gun I would skip the legion and get the brigadier. The legion benefits will be insignificant or non existent to someone not intimately familiar with the base model sig guns, that coupled with the price and finish issues would keep me from recommending Legion guns to anyone who has not already invested allot of time and rounds into the sig P series platforms. If you have a ton of time and rounds through the p226 and are willing to prototype the Legion PVT finish then I would say get the legion as they have made excellent but subtle improvements that will make it worth it.

Just get the wolf INS trigger spring mod, no more broken trigger return springs.

They've made quite a few SAO/Thumb safety guns over the years. This one was a few hundred more than a Brig Tac, but has a steel frame and enhanced checkering to go along with the single action and thumb safety. Plus they only built 1915 of them.

Attached File

I should have specified an SAO beretta that wouldn’t get me 1.5 STI’s

Am I correct in thinking that the standard 92FS is an aluminum-framed gun while the 92G Brig. is a steel-framed gun?

Heavy profile slide, still an aluminum frame.

Is there a steel framed version?

The only all steel 92s to my knowledge is the special edition Centurion models.

Are you really wanting an all steel 92?  The alloy frame production models are already very soft shooters...

Many of the special edition models like the Centennial shown above, the Billenium and the appropriately named Steel had steel frames, otherwise standard production models all used aluminum frames. The Brig Tac frame is aluminum.

Love my Inox Beretta but the SAO Legion is pretty amazing. This one has zero finish problems and the trigger is superb out of the box. No grittiness or hitches in the pull and the reset is unreal for not being a 1911.

Third magazine ever out of the Legion SAO at 15yards, 15 rounds one hole. This thing shoots lights out and this is with winchester white box.


Five rounds slow fire, this was out of the second mag shot through this gun.


Running it pretty wet so it looks blotchy.

Just not sure I'm sold on that Legion finish.

My cabelas had one last night and believe it or not it was cheaper then my local shop that had one a couple months ago. Is a grand about right these days? I was tempted.

They also had gen 5’s for 600. Actually not crazy priced.

Honestly if my finish peels off I like everything else about the gun enough I would just cerakote it, bead blast the slide, or Robar NP3+ finish. I didn't buy this gun to be pretty but I don't want it rusting.

I think it's just a bad batch of them that got out.  I have read that the Legion PVD is supposed to exactly the same as Sigs nitron finish with grey coloring instead of black.

The M9A3 is on my short list.  Especially after seeing that one guys post after Beretta fixed it up for him and shot the 25yard test target.

[Deleted]

"That's real retarded sir"

I love my Berettas, but bought a 229 Legion for my 40th bday present.  The day I went in to buy it, the shop had just received three WC 92 BrigTacs.    I held both in my hand and it was so hard to not go with the Beretta, but I wanted something a bit different.  I love my Legion.  So far, 960 rounds with no failures.  I keep it in my safe with a dehumidifier and have carried it, briefly, exactly one time, and it gets cleaned after every range trip.  Haven't noticed any rust, but I've been taking care of it.  I'll be following this stuff closely now though!  

92G.

My M9 with g mod and d spring is my best shooting pistol.

Sig quality has really gone downhill in recent years. I have no interest in a new Sig.

This is a tech forum take your trolling to GD

The Wilson 92G has a stainless barrel, correct?

Yes

What?  Reality has gone on vacation.

Has it?

From what I see the standard P226 with SigLite night sights are roughly $875 and the Legion is $1,225.  That’s a $350 price increase, which translates to 40% additional cost for the Legion features.

Depending on what your looking for (cosmetics vs utility) the value is questionable.

PVD finish - Mostly cosmetic with well documented QC issues.
Extended bevertail - Not needed with the high bore axis, side bite is a non-issue.  Added footprint with no real gain.
Front serrations - Personal preference
G10 grips - A definite improment over OEM panels, but still thicker than E2s
Gray guns trigger - Definate improvement over the standard trigger, not so much over the short reach.
Low profile controls - Personal preference

In the end only the buyer can make the decision if it’s worth it or not.  Same thing goes for the Wilson 92G.  I kinda lump the Legion series in with the Zev “Gucci Glocks”... They look cool and are expensive, but don’t really do anything special.

If it were my money, I would choose the Wilson Combat 92G over the Legion in a heartbeat.  I would rather have pistol worked over by a reputable smith like WC than a factory semi-custom offered by a quality control train-wreck like Sig.

YMMV

Unless something has changed, Wilson does not touch the Brig tac unless a trigger job or magwell thing is added. The Brig tac is built by Beretta to Wilson's specification. The WCR did say that the Brig tac gets additional fitting spent on it that the standard 92's don't get.

If you are going to get a Legion the only one worth the extra coin IMO is the SAO the rest are just like you say Gucci-ed up Elite models.  Honestly if I am getting a DA\SA Sig the Elite\Enhanced Elite has all the cool features.  If the cool features are not needed the MK25 is a better deal all around.

Does anybody know if Wilson offers additional rear sight options?

Not 100% sure I'd like the style rear sight they put on as standard, it looks like a low light sight?

They offer the Battle sight in 4 different heights, but its the same sight.  Not sure if they have anything else.

Attached File

The sights these come with are fantastic. Mine has a fiber optic front. The Brig Tac has a tritium front. The rear is a u notch and works extremely well at helping you pick up the front. 

I would get the Beretta in a heartbeat.

Update:

Ended up ordering a Beretta / Wilson 92G!

Should have it in a couple weeks.

Congratulations on your choice. Let us know how it turns out for you.

How could you have made such a bad choice?!



Post the pics when it comes in and let us know how it shoots!

Take that shit to GD.

Beretta/Wilson 92G Brigadier Tactical.