Dead on accurate AND reliable. The single-stack design fits my hand exponentially better. I do not feel undergunned with a 9mm that shoots like a .22LR with that heavy steel frame.

These have been working for Uncle Sam since they were built in 43-44'.  I had them in Astan in 14'.



Turned in my Glock 19 for this 44' Remington in Afghanistan.


Had this 1916 dated Colt M1911 in Iraq in 2008!


I like my M1911s in .45 although I do have a Colt .22LR Conversion kit, Coonan Model Bs in .357 Mag and a 1944 dated German produced P35(p) ie Radom, Vis35.

CD

I hear you loud and clear, but our friend the OP isn't restricted to ball ammo.  There's no way I'd carry ball 9mm over 45 ball either, but the differences disappear when good ammo is used.

Not quite....

The gap gets closed up a bit, under ideal conditions, but there are still differences.  If the hollow point clogs and the bullet doesn't expand, as often happens in less than ideal conditions, you're right back to ball vs ball.

The OP said it himself:
The physics are undeniable; that kick you feel when you touch off a round of .45acp equates to a bigger punch at the receiving end.  A heavy gun will absorb a little more of that than a lightweight one will, but the physics are the physics.  

9mm is much better today than it was 20 years ago, but it's still almost half the weight of a 230gr .45acp.  There's no magic happening.

9mm vs 45acp for self defense was settled long ago.  Weight has nothing to do with it when the goal is maximum blood loss in the bad guy to make him stop.  As for hollow points clogging up, that's part of testing.  Through heavy denim even a mediocre 9mm JHP makes as big a hole as 45 ball.  The only argument I see for the .45 is that in JHP it gives you a 10-15% better chance of hitting a big artery.  Of course if you're shooting through barriers, different parameters.  But in that kind of gunfight I would rather have the capacity of a 9mm over the penetration of the .45.  

I carry a .45 often hiking and I like it for lots of reason.  But in the real world a 9mm JHP is better than a .45acp FMJ and all things considered, about the same a .45acp JHP.

For me the 1911 is about the platform.  .45's are just a fun thing that goes with.

Yes, it's all about settling.  Various agencies settled for a one-size-fits-all solution; individuals do not need to.  Meh, it's only Newton's third law...  

Let's not derail the thread with a debate; you believe what you believe and I believes differently.  It's all good.

It's actually about scientific data. If you actually read the extensive studies done on the subject of terminal ballistics, and the massive body of testing the FBI did on hollowpoint ammo in all the major service calibers, the debate has been settled. There is no question with modern bonded hollowpoint ammo there is little to no difference in terminal ballistics. I understand in this day and age where ideology trumps facts, scientific research and actual data are frowned upon. It's also just a lot easier to say what comes to mind and rationalize it, like "when you shoot 45acp you feel it more, so it punches the target harder." I'm just one of those people that still believes in facts, and the rigors research and science.

Now hang on, little to NO difference in terminal performance.  So, you're saying 9mm bullets expand to pretty much the same width as 45 hollow points of same design?   I can see the arguments, more capacity, less felt recoil therefore quicker, accurate follow up shots, cheaper training.  But to say there is little to no difference between 9mm and  45 of the same quality bullet design seems like a stretch to me.  

A bigger hole is a bigger hole.  Seems like in some cases it could make all the difference in the world.   Now, I get the argument, more holes are more holes.  That could also make all the difference in the world in some cases.  

To me it seems like some people are painting the 9mm to be actually better than it is, just because of the big switch.  I mean, if you choose a car because it handles better around the corners because that's what you need it for, don't claim that it has more horsepower than a drag car if it actually doesn't have more horsepower.   To be sure the drag car would be a bad choice for taking corners well.  But...... you get the point.  

I don't know maybe the fractions of inches aren't anything.  Just seems like a reach to say it isn't anything.  When in every other area people are always striving for fractions of betterness.  If you get what I mean.  

The research shows The wound and temporary stretch cavities are very similar. Similar enough that the difference is not enough to be significant. There simply is not enough difference to justify the added recoil (which means slower and less accurate follow-up shots) and lower capacity of the bigger rounds (40cal, 45acp) over 9mm.

Put it this way. You have 3 calibers that basically have the same terminal performance and wounding characteristics. Do you choose the caliber that has less recoil and can fit the most rounds in a magazine, or the caliber with more recoil and can fit fewer rounds in the mag? Remember more recoil means it is more difficult to get fast and accurate follow-up shots on your target.

With all other things being equal (terminal performance and wounding characteristics) I will choose the caliber that has less recoil and gives me more rounds in the mag. In the end it is all about getting as many accurate shots on your target as quickly as possible. I want the caliber that does this best. Especially when you are in a situation where fractions of a second count.

Don't get me wrong...MUCH respect to the 45ACP round. It has indeed stood the test of time. I still own a few handguns chambered in 45ACP. I have a S&W Thunder Ranch 22, which is a 45acp revolver. I also have a FN-FNX45 Tactical. Great guns and fun to shoot at the range. But I don't carry them for daily CCW. But if you do carry a 45acp for self defense. That's cool. For me, the 9mm round makes more sense for daily carry and will serve me fine if I ever need to use it.

Almost the same just seems like a very general way to explain the difference.  It might be fractions of an inch difference.  But why does that not matter, when every other area you're talking about fractions of differences.

I realize most people can shoot a 9mm faster and more accurately.  But HOW MUCH faster?  It's really going to depend on the person.  My guess is good shooters aren't going to notice a LOT of differences and I think the platform of the gun might come into play also.  Like, I've never done this test, but from past experience I think I could probably shoot a .45 1911 much faster than a DAO 9mm Beretta.  But yeah,  not really apples to apples but you get the point.  I'm pretty sure I could do 1 second and even probably 1/2 second split times with a .45 well.  I think once you start getting into the 1/4" split times, that's when you probably see the difference.  

Would be an interesting test to do.......  But the point is there are other variables than just the caliber.  

Yes, there are definitely more rounds in a service sized 9mm pistol compared to a .45.  Or .40.  But is it really THAT many?  Obviously the difference between a .40 and 9mm is much closer.  

Anyways....  I hear what you and everyone is saying.  9mm works.  I personally think it's being hyped up to more than what it is because of the official adoption by more LEO.  But personally, I never thought it was a bad round and I always figured it's "good enough".   But from what I can tell, the bigger rounds, make bigger holes and do more damage.  And to me, that means something.  

What's weird is I just got an article from the NRA saying the FBI adopted Hornady Critical Duty, .40 cal......

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/10/20/fbi-selects-hornady-critical-duty-ammo/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=1017

What you are saying is true. How much of a difference? Is it much? It may not be for some. It is subjective no doubt based on experience and practice etc. For me, trying to shoot a 45acp polymer pistol is not a good experience if my goal is to get quick and accurate fire on a target. The recoil throws me way off and I have to really reign the pistol in after each shot to get back on target.

I shoot a CZ P-10C and P-07 (both 9mm) very well. I am able to bring those two guns right back on target shot after shot for quick and accurate follow-up shots. Not only noticeably faster than any polymer 45acp, but my groups are MUCH tighter as well compared to a polymer 45acp. It is two radically different experiences and results.

Now when I take my Kimber 1911 full sized steel 9mm pistol and compare it to my 9mm polymer pistols, WOW, another huge difference. The all steel 9mm 1911 does NOT move in between shots. I can empty the mag as fast I can pull the trigger without even aiming after the first shot and have a 2" to 3" group at 10 yards. Compare that to a polymer 45acp...there is no comparison.

If the Lightweight Commander I have coming in 9mm this week does not give me similar results to the all steel 1911 9mm, I am seriously considering carrying a full-sized all steel 9mm 1911. With a gun that can put up such fast and accurate fire I would have the utmost confidence that i could totally own the 15 yards around me at all times.


As far as the .40cal for FBI; that does NOT surprise me at all. That doesn't mean they haven't switched to 9mm. I'm sure they still have 40cal guns in service.  I'm sure they still have 10mm and 357mag guns in service too and buy ammo for them as well.

I felt bad for the thread drift, but since the OP seems OK with it then I feel better about adding.

Yes, 9mm will offer faster follow-up shots for almost all shooters; but who says that's important to citizen carry (which is very different than police or military carry)?  I can mag-dump my .22 auto very fast, and 10 rounds of 40gr = 400grs on the target....in theory.

Who says you or I (a citizen shooting in self-defense) will get more than one round on the target?  If we assume a single round on the target then follow-up shots are wholly unimportant.  I like to think I'll get more, so I compromise and assume maybe two at best before the dynamics of the situation kick in and everything changes. Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

If you focus your research to citizen self-defense shootings only, you will get different results than you will with the broader brush which includes police LE shootings.  I haven't found many prolonged gun battles against bad guys who stand square to the citizen victim like a block of gelatin, as he/she shoots in self-defense, with no obstacles between.  

I like big booms and I cannot lie.  If I get one round on the target before he's had a change of heart and starts jinking around, then things went as I would expect.  I keep a backup mag in case it does not.  Wound cavities in denim covered gelatin might make the 9mm look impressive, but again, there's no magic involved.  Bigger boom at this end = bigger impact at the other end.  I prioritize that first shot higher than the possibility of getting the opportunity to make follow-up shots.  If you put all your eggs in the follow-up-shot basket, and you never get to make a follow-up shot, then you weren't prepared for that situation.

If you're a cop, then there are different rules altogether; I'm not so I'm not speaking to that.

If you cannot get that first round on target with a .45, then .45 isn't for you; use what you are comfortable with and have confidence in.

OP HERE:

I don't disagree with anything you are saying here. For me, I simply want to know I can hit my target quickly and accurately with the gun I am carrying. Whether you are a CCW holder or LEO, if you are pulling your gun out with the intent of using it, your goal is to STOP the threat. With a handgun, the best way to do that is to get multiple hits on your target as quickly as possible. I'm not saying you WILL get more rounds on your target, but regardless of who you are, if you have pulled out your gun, that is your goal.

The best gun for me to do that with would be my Volquartsen 22lr Target Pistol with a 1lb trigger. But 22lr is not a service caliber. Therefore, I want a gun that chambers a service caliber that mimics the performance of my 22lr target pistol as closely as possible. For me that is a mid to full-size 9mm pistol. And what I have been finding as of late, the more that pistol weighs, the more the recoil is controlled, the more fast and accurate fire I can get on my target. Other shooters may have a different experience, but physics are physics and we all can't shoot like Jerry Michulek. He is the only guy I can think of who's shooting ability pushes the laws of physics to their absolute limits.

Currently I have found that a full-size, all steel 1911 9mm is the pistol chambered in a major service caliber that I can put up the quickest and most accurate fire with. It is NOT the gun I currently carry. Today I pick up the Colt LW 9mm Commander I ordered. We will see how I do with that. But I may well wind up buying a full sized all steel 1911 in 9mm and make it my carry gun. We will see how it all works out. But in all honesty the FN Five seveN I often carry achieves my goal of quick and accurate fire pretty darn well :)

10 rounds at 10 yards offhand - FN Five-seveN with Elite Ammo T6B (2400 fps out of a freaking pistol!)






I'm pretty comfortable with 21 of these (Elite Ammo T6B) on tap, and 20 more on my hip.




And the Five seveN is less than 28 ounces fully loaded! A full mag only weighs 7.5 ounces (A loaded Glock 17 Mag weighs 15 ounces)

OP HERE:

As you may have seen in my other threads, I recently acquired a Kimber TLE II Custom 9mm Full-Size with a Threaded Barrel and all Steel Frame. I liked it so much and shot it so well, I decided I wanted to try a 9mm 1911 in a smaller carry package, to see if it made sense for concealed carry for me. So I ordered a Colt LW 9mm Commander (current production).

Well the Colt LW Commander 9mm showed up today. I ran 120 rounds of Wally World Federal 115gr Brass, 10 rounds of Federal HST 124gr (my 9mm carry load for guns with barrels 4" or less), and 30 rounds of American Eagle 147 gr. I'm going to tell you right up front I like this gun and it ran perfectly. It definitely has more muzzle flip than then the full-sized all steel Kimber 9mm I have. But the recoil really isn't too bad at all. I need to spend a little more time with the gun to finalize my thoughts. I also need to do the following comparisons:

- I need to run it side by side with the Full-sized all steel 9mm Kimber to see if it can put up similar quick and accurate fire.
- I need to run it side by side with my Glock 19 and CZ P-10C to see if it is more controllable.

Once I spend some time doing that, I will see if the LW Commander in 9mm makes sense as a carry gun for me.

Here are some of my initial thoughts on the Colt LW 9mm Commander. As I have made clear in earlier posts in this thread, I am NOT a 1911 guy. The only other 1911 I have any real experience with recently is the full-sized Kimber 9mm that started off this thread.

Let's start with the finish. One of the reason I chose the Colt was because of the nice Polished Blue finish on the slide. That has always appealed to me for whatever reason. I am not a huge fan of Stainless guns or Parkerized pistols. In all honesty I don't care for the Kimber finish at all. I never have. It is a cross between a parkerized finish and some kind of black paint or something. It is not very durable, and it is not really anything to look at.

Moving onto the Fit...The Colt is a freaking rattletrap compared to the Kimber. Nothing moves around or wiggles on the Kimber unless it is intentionally made to move. There is absolutely no rattling at all; it feels like you are holding a solid billet of steel in your hand. Everything rattles around on the Colt; the slide, the trigger, the grip safety, the thumb safety. I was actually super surprised how loose this gun is everywhere! As long as the gun runs reliably, I am ok with loose. Though this gun is looser than I normally like. What is up with the Colt being so loose? Is the idea that the tolerances aren't so tight so it will be more reliable in all kinds of conditions? Would it do better through MAC's Gauntlet than the Kimber which has much tighter tolerances? I suspect if Colt wanted to make their 1911s tighter, it is not a big deal to adjust the CNC machines. I would imagine they are loose for a reason?

As mentioned above, here are the specific parts that are quite loose: The Slide, Thumb Safety, and Grip Safety. Let's look at these parts on the Colt a little more closely in comparison to the Kimber.

The slide on the Colt rattles around on the frame quite a bit. Give the Colt a little shake and the slide rattles around. The only gun I can think of that I ever owned that had that much pay in the slide was a very early Kel-Tec 9mm sub-compact. The tolerances on the Kimber, However, are so much tighter that you can't get the slide to budge in any direction other than the intended rearward direction when you charge the pistol.

The Thumb Safety on the Colt is surprisingly mushy as well. It doesn't click positively into place when making the gun safe. It does however click positively when it is switched to the off position. It also has some play in it. The Kimber on the other hand is rock solid. It snaps up to make the gun safe and snaps down to make it ready to fire. It does not budge unless you mean for it to budge.

Other than the fact that the Colt's trigger can easily rattle around side to side, back and forth, and up and down, and the Kimber's trigger does none of those things, the triggers perform very similarly. They have about the same take-up, break, and reset.

Basically the Kimber kicks the Colt's ass in terms of fit. The Kimber's tolerances are so much tighter, there is absolutely no comparison.

Once last difference I want to mention is the magazine. The Colt magazine is much easier to load, but the Kimber is the superior magazine. On the Kimber mag, the spring is stronger and the follower is tilted up a few degrees more, both of which guarantee more positive feeding and prevent the dreaded 1911 nosedive. When I want to try to induce a malfunction in a 9mm pistol, I pull out a box of American Eagle 147gr flat point FMJs. They are really short rounds and they look funny in the magazine because they are so short. The flat nose also makes feeding more challenging. In my experience, a lot of guns do not care for this ammo. None of my AR-9mm builds feed this round well, and I have seen several pistols have problems with it as well. So I tried to see if I could get the Colt to choke on this round; and I did. I had one malfunction today with the Colt, I got one of the AE 147gr rounds to nosedive, but only with the weaker sprung Colt mag. I ran 25 more rounds of this problem child ammo through the Colt with the Kimber mags, and no problems. The Kimber mag is superior without question. This Colt will feed anything with the Kimber mag.

Despite the differences in fit and tolerance, the Colt shoots just as well as the Kimber. The considerably lighter Colt (alloy frame and shorter barrel and slide) definitely recoils more than the Kimber, but not all that much more it didn't seem. But I really need to do some side-by-side testing, which I will do this week. In the meantime, here are some groups from today. I can easily put up 1.5" groups at 10 yards with the Colt.

Here is one of the first few groups I shot with the basic 115gr Federal Brass ammo I buy lots of at Walmart:




Here is a group I fired with Federal 124gr HST, my carry load:




As you can see, accuracy is not an issue here. Next time out I will compare the Colt and Kimber side by side on the range doing some rapid fire exercises. I will also run the Colt with my CZ P-10C and Glock 19 to see which gun puts up the quickest and most accurate fire.

I've never owned a 1911 (gasp!), but those that I've shot that belonged to my friends were all reliable.  The only issues were when (a) a dude didn't reload his ammo properly and (b) a dude used the wrong mags, and had the gun so dry and dirty that you had to physically push the slide into full battery.  

Harrish, I wouldn't worry about the rattling.  My HiPower rattles slide to frame and it still shoots very well.  But I can see why it might bug someone.  It does seem like it's indicative of possibly lousy fitting.  Or no fitting at all?  I don't know.....   The mushy safety is possibly how deep the little holes are that accept the detent.  It's one thing smiths do to sharpen that up.  Make those indents a little deeper.  But if it's positive when engaging, that is probably all that matters.  Feeling mushy going off might change with time.  And not sure if it matters.  

I just wouldn't use the Colt mag.  I'm assuming it's a mecgar, but I don't know that for sure.  I'm really not up on what 9mm 1911 mags are good.  

I've never had a gun choke on 147 grain.  In fact I just shot a box of that same stuff through my M9 and G26 and nary a problem........  What other guns have you seen jam on that round?

Look how short the 147gr AE round is next two a typical 147gr HP round. Not only is it stubby, it is VERY flat. Not a good combo; just looking for trouble. I shoot suppressed a lot. So I buy 147gr ammo whenever I find a good deal on it. This is my LEAST favorite 147gr ammo, as  have had at least one stoppage in every gun I have ever shot with using this ammo. I have also seen and read about others that have had similar expereinces with it. I shoot a lot, and I shoot a lot suppressed. I usually seem to have this problem more suppressed.

This round won't run at all in my AR-9mm builds. But the Lawman Flat point will. It is a little longer and NOT as FLAT.

Those are my favorite. If I ran out of good hollow points id use them. I've never had a lic of trouble with them and I find them very accurate.

I've always liked flat points for animals. They track straighter and have a larger permanent wound channel.

I will have to take a pic of them loaded into a 1911 mag. With the crazy tipped up follower these rounds look like they are the wrong caliber for the mag! It just looks like trouble.

Harrish, I really don't get what you're worried about.  Both rounds shown have a flat spot on top.  So what if one is shorter?  How would that make it any less likely to feed?  I was thinking it might make it easier to feed.   HP's in general usually have a much different profile than a nice rounded FMJ bullet.  But in most modern guns, it's not an issue.  And even in 1911's countless amounts of 185 grain SWC's are run through them.  Sure, you have to test them all to make sure, but I've never had problems with 147 grainers in any of my 9mm guns.  I'm pretty sure every 147 FMJ has that same profile.  I mean like between companies.  Let's see....  Maybe Federal's are shorter, IDK....  Doesn't really look like it though.  




and the much used 185 SWC's in .45.....

I'm not worried. The only 147gr round I have ever had problems with in more than one gun is AE 147gr. On my 1911, with the slide back and mag inserted with AE 147gr, it just looks like potential trouble. A flat top is NOT the ideal bullet profile for any semi-auto. More likely to hang up than a rounded profile. That's why some guns have trouble with certain kinds of hollowpoints. Ones with wide mouths, or shapes that don't approximate a round profile are the more problematic ones.

Oh and that Winchester 147gr has much less of a flat top than the AE 147gr. The Lawman 147gr as well. Both the Lawman and Winchester 147gr feed 100% in my 9mm-ARs. AE 147gr feeds 0% in my 9mm ARs. It will NOT chamber a single round ever. Hangs up on the feed ramp 100% of the time. It is just not a great design. If it works for you, that's awesome. It Gives me problems.

The 9's are ok for use with available ammo, and cheap plinking. .38 super is so much more fun. 


Also, run the shit out of your 9mm, get used to man handling it, cleaning and stripping things, and I would venture you could go back to any of your old .45 1911's and if you have any problems, make them go away on your own quickly. From my time running a range, people who had problems with 1911's were just... not good with them. But people who were good with them never had issues even with shitty guns other people had problems with. Out rental Kimbers would run like dogs for some people, but shoot 500 rounds with no FTF's for others. 

I've had (4) 1911's... (1) wouldn't chamber the first round, even ball ammo. That went back to the vendor I purchased it from. The other (3)... All run/ran like raped apes! My Springfield "NM" serial numbered (Commander) is my bump in the night/house gun. Even my 70+ year old mother in law can't get it to malfunction. It shoots Wolf, Prvi, Fiocchi, Federal, Winchester, PMC, Geco, Blazer Brass/Aluminum etc.... and has never failed with the 14 magazines all of different makes and capacity either. Every manufacturer puts out a turd now and then. I had a Glock 27 that was the biggest piece of shit I've ever owned and a Kimber that I wouln't see fit to use as a boat anchor. Shit happens. That's why it's imperative to put 400-500 rounds thru a pistol to ensure it's duty worthy. I see and hear of family and friends buying a pistol, loading it, and sticking it in a sock drawer and calling it good. That's the problem right there. YMMV...

Fuck yeah bro! You rock the best weapons without a doubt!

Good to hear the Kimber is working. My 9mm SA RO is a jammomatic. Sent it back once and I think it is now worse.

That's been the problem with Springfield for years. YOU, as a customer, are a member of the Quality Control Dept. They have a great warranty, but it seems way too many people have to use it!

While the Kimber is super tight and works well, I think it is too tight. My Colt may be loose, but I think a 1911 should be a little loose. It ensures reliability; a little dirt or sand won't stop up the works. Plus one of the reason the Kimber is so tight is because of all the MIM parts and castings. It is easy to get MIM parts to be the exact same from run to run with exacting tolerances. Colt only uses 4 MIM parts. It's not that MIM is bad, but it depends who is making them or where they are sourced. Kimber has had a history of sourcing some bad MIM parts. Colt's MIM parts have been put under a lot of scrutiny and it seems they are very well made and of excellent quality.

I bought a new production Colt LW Commander a week ago. I like it so much I just bought an all steel one that will be here Monday. Will probably get a Colt Competition 70 Series as well.

The finish on the Kimber is terrible as well. It almost just wipes off the gun. Mine is a few weeks old and has only been handled at the range. The finish has already worn off the thumb safety, and the slide shows some wear. It is an unattractive finish to begin with. Looks like dull matte black spray paint. The flats on the Colt are a beautiful polished blue. Almost too nice for a carry gun!

Wow, you are on a 1911 roll......  LOL.

OP HERE:

I just got back from the range. I ran another 150 rounds through the LW Colt Commander. That make 310 completely trouble free rounds thus far.

I shot the Colt back to back with my CZ P-10C and my Government sized Kimber 9mm with a Threaded Barrel. The Kimber, as previously discussed, has little to no recoil. Not much to do in between shots except to let the muzzle drop back down a tad and pull the trigger. The LW Colt definitely has more recoil than the Kimber, not a ton more though, and comes back on target pretty easily. The 9mm CZ P-10C has a lot more recoil than both of the 1911s. Think of the Kimber in 1st, the LW Commander a close 2nd, and the polymer CZ a distant third. It is a very different experience going from the 1911s to the polymer gun. Almost like a different activity altogether.

I like the LW Colt Commander, I just ordered an all steel Colt Commander. It should even have less recoil than the LW Commander. I am also seriously considering ordering the Colt Competition 9mm 70 Series. That will give me a nice collection of 9mm 1911s and hold me for a while.

I usually save my 147gr 9mm ammo for Suppressed shooting.But I was done with my suppressor and had a couple of handfuls of 147gr ammo left and decided to run it through the Colt LW Commander. I shot one group with Browning 147gr FMJ and one with AE 147gr FMJ. I couldn't tell the difference in recoil from the 115gr ammo. Felt exactly the same. Both put up a 1.5" group at 10 yards with a mag-full of ammo.



Next time out I will run some rapid fire drills with the Kimber and Colt.

You are a blessed man indeed.

That's never been the problem with Springfield

Truth is, I have had two bad experiences with Springfield's over the last 30 years. But it is the only two experiences I had with them. I bought an M1A many years ago. It went back to IL three times. The second time it came back it had a soft receiver. When I say soft, I could make it flex with my hands. It made mounting a scope impossible regardless of which mount was used. When it came back the third time I sold it before I shot it.

I had a similar experience around the same time with a Loaded 1911 in 45acp. Except I sold it when it came back the second time.

However, I know many people who have had great success with many Springfields. I'm sure they send out lots of good guns.

It just doesn't seem like they actually make much here. The 1911's are made in Brazil. The XDMs are made in Croatia. Most of the cast parts for their M1As are from Korea. So I'm just not a big fan.

It's not like you're thinking. I sold a bunch of guns over the last six months that I hadn't shot in years. Though I have a few guns that I don't shoot much that I would never sell, I'm not looking to collect guns, if it doesn't get shot much, it gets sold. Every couple of years I sell off or trade off guns I don't use and replace them with ones I will use. If those don't get used, they go on the next round. A lot of the guns I buy, keep their value. Some even go up in price! I just sold a few Smith & Wesson revolvers. I got more than I paid for them.

Since I sold off a few guns, I was looking to buy three or four new guns anyway. So far 2 Colts and 1 Kimber. I might pick up one more Colt and that will be it for quite a while. Unless I sell something else.

Essentially the total number of guns I own doesn't change much over time, but the guns themselves change often. An no I don't really regret selling any of them except for one or two. And that is mainly how insanely expensive they are now. Like the two HK P7M8s I had, or the Polytech Legend Underfolder w/ Milled Receiver I had. Compared to the hundreds I paid for them, they are worth a lot of freaking money right now.

Like I said, you are blessed man.  I didn't mean anything bad by it.  You have a nice family of 1911's already and it's growing.  What's not to like?

I didn't want you to think I'm some snob that buys 3 guns a week. It's tough enough making my monthly ammo bill! I shoot 1500 rounds a month minimum. Fortunately it is mostly 9mm. I shoot a fair amount of .38 spec as well, which is NOT cheap. Glad I'm basically out of 45acp. I'm down to 1 45acp, and it is a revolver that uses moonclips. So it is slow going to load up to shoot it. I have a couple of thousand rounds of 45 left, which should last a long time given how infrequently I shoot my S&W Thunder Ranch Model 22 45acp. It is a beauty though, with it mirror polished blue finish.

I used to be a SA fanboy and still sort of am, as they make a fine 1911, I just don't really care for std production guns any longer. That said, SA no longer has anything to do with IMBEL since around 2014 or so. Their 1911's since then have had nothing to do with Brazil.

You might want to update your info.

Their 1911s are made here.

And I think some of them used to be.  I thought I remember hearing the ones with the NM stamped frames were american made ones.  I forget.  

And beyond that their custom shop had a really good rep for good work.  So you could upgrade whatever 1911 you bought as a base and get all kinds of stuff done to it at a decent price and supposed pretty good quality.  


Anyways......  But yeah, Harrish, I wish .38 was as cheap as 9mm.  It SHOULD be.  

Yeah I was thinking that might have changed. Where are they making them now? Oh never mind, I see Here in the US. That's cool. There was a time I was seriously into M14 rifles in the early 2000s. I started my M14 oddessy with a defective M1A and quickly moved up the ladder to custom makers like LRB. Springfield was using mostly cast parts for their M1As since the forged Mil Spec parts dried up. Companies like LRB were making a lot of new forged parts instead of going to castings. I'm trying to remember the name of the company in Taiwan where SA was sourcing their cast parts. Ok, Got it, Wayne Machine Taiwan. The company made lots of cast parts for M14s and 1911s. So if I had to guess, thats where they are getting their 1911 parts now. It was well known in the M14 community that's where SA got their parts.

Here is their website:
http://waynemachine.com.tw/

Click on the product list at the bottom and see all the different parts they make for different guns.

Again nothing wrong with cast parts if they are done correctly. I just get hung up on stuff like that. If the part was meant to be forged, I like it to be forged. There is a reason why a SA M1A cost $1200 back then and an LRB cost $3K. Quality of parts.

OP HERE:

As some of you may heave read a couple of weeks ago I picked up a Kimber Custom II TLE in 9mm with a Threaded barrel and new production Colt Lightweight Commander in 9mm. I liked them so much I decided to order a Colt Combat (Steel Frame) Commander & a Colt Competition 9mm (series 70). They showed up today and I promptly put some rounds downrange!

Before I discuss shooting the guns, it may seem strange that I am buying all of these 9mm 1911s all of a sudden. There is a reason. I am looking to find what I consider an ideal 9mm. Ideal for me is a gun that allows me to put up accurate shots as quickly as possible. The key is recoil, or lack thereof. My FN Five seveN is the master of quick and accurate fire. With 40% less recoil than 9mm, I can put up very fast and accurate follow-up shots with my FN. That's why it has been my main carry gun for four years. I want to have an option in 9mm as well. Though I have been known to carry a Glock 19, CZ-P07, and recently a CZ-P10, I find my lightweight polymer guns, don't come close to the Five seveN in the quick and accurate follow-up shot department. Yes I can shoot them accurately, and pretty quickly too. Just not as quick or as accurately as my Five seveN.

I figured I would try some heavier guns in 9mm; 1911s chambered seemed to make sense. Ranging from the lighter 27.9 ounce LW Commander (w/o mag), to the Combat Commander 9mm in between at 35.5 ounces (w/o mag), to the 39.8 ounce all steel Colt Competition Government 9mm (w/o mag) on the other end. I figured one would be ideal to help me attain my goal. Since I will carry this gun, I am trying to find the ideal combination of weight, accuracy, recoil-control, and speed of follow-up shots. If I can get away with the lightest one, great! If not, I will move up to the next one, and so on until I find the perfect one to achieve my goal.


Colt LightWeight Commander 9mm 27.9 ounces w/o Mag (Colt says it is 29.4 ounces w/o mag)





Colt Combat Commander 9mm (All Steel) 35.5 ounces w/o Mag (Colt says it is 33.0 ounces w/o mag)





Colt Government Competition 9mm (All Steel) 38.2 ounces w/o Mag (Colt says it is 36.0 ounces w/o mag)





It is going to take me a few months of shooting and spending time with these guns to figure it out. I already have 360 rounds through my LW Commander with all kinds of ammo; different weights, hollowpoints, FMJs etc. It has run perfectly and flawlessly. Today I put some rounds through the 2 new 9mm Colts. I picked them up, broke them down and lubed them up. Then I ran all kinds of different ammo through them. I put 130 rounds through the Government size Colt Competition 9mm, and 100 rounds through the all steel Combat Commander. Let's start with the all steel Commander. Here is the first group I shot today with some Cheap Walmart Federal Brass 115gr. Shooting was at 25 feet. My aim was a little low on the first shot so I decided to keep my POA the same for the subsequent shots.


9 Rounds at 25 Feet





I'm not ready to get into a major review of the Combat Commander or the Competition yet. I need to spend more time with them. But suffice it to say that I was able to control the recoil of the all steel Combat Commander 9mm noticeably better than the LW Commander 9mm. I even emptied a full mag rapid-fire with the Combat Commander and pretty much tore one big hole in middle of the target at 25 feet. For now suffice it to say that this gun ran the 5 kinds of ammo I used today flawlessly, including my carry load the 124gr Federal HST using both the Colt factory mag and the Kimber 9mm mags (which I prefer over the Colt mags).

Let's move on to the Colt Competition 9mm. The one I bought is the 70 Series version. In 2016 the Colt Competition models were series 80, for 2017 they switched to series 70 and dropped the series 80. They also dropped the matte blue finish for the beautiful and classic Colt polished blue finish, which I MUCH prefer! All the flats on the Blued Competition's frame and slide are polished mirror blue. Same goes for the Combat Commander BTW.


Here are the 1st two groups I shot using the same Cheap Walmart Federal Brass 115gr. I used in the Commander's first few mags. Shooting was at 25 feet.




The slide failed to lock back on a number of the mags I shot with cheap Federal ammo, regardless of magazine used. The slide locked back fine with stouter defensive loads. I have been told that 9mm 1911s are way over-sprung, and I believe it. I may put some lighter springs in this one, or break it in a little more. The lighter cheaper Federal loads didn't eject very proudly either. I also had a number of failures to feed with my favorite defensive ammo the 124gr HST. Based on what I saw with the ejection, I am pretty sure some break-in time or a lighter spring will solve this issue. We will see as I put more rounds downrange over the weeks to come. Since it is a 5" barrel I may move to 147gr Gold Dots for a defensive round in this gun anyway.

I should mention that the fit and finish on both of the pistols is EXCELLENT! Exact same beautiful polished blue finish on both. That's all for now. I will keep everyone posted in the weeks to come as I spend more time with these pistols.

Have I told you yet how jealous I am of you?   LOL.  In a good way.  Keep posting.  I'm sure enjoying seeing them.  

FWIW, my HiPower is a shade under 36 ounces loaded.  Just for reference.  It's 32 ounces exactly with a mecgar mag in it.   So it's kind of right in between the LW and steel Commander.  But no way can I shoot it as fast as 1911.  Trigger reset is longer and the slide isn't as heavy.   I don't think.  

Those ponies are beautiful though.  So is the Kimber.

OP HERE
Here are some nicer pics of the two new Ponies:

If it were me, I'd allow the little bit of extra recoil and carry the LW.  If I were to plan to carry it 24/7.   But I'm not overly stout and my body aint what it used to be.  A few ounces make a difference to me.    YMMV

Maybe when I stick this on the LW Commander it will be the perfect solution. I saw an article where they tested the Wilson Bushing Comp and it had a 43% reduction in recoil in 9mm. Not so in other calibers. I ordered it from Wilson, they cut it down and sent it out the same day. It showed up today. It even matches the blueing on my Colt. Polished Flats!

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Yes they do, yes they do! When you combine a heavy for caliber, Hard Cast, Truncated (flat point) cone bullet it's a bad day for thick pelted heavy boned animals. One of the worst wound track/profiles I've seen is from a Full Wad Cutter, in .38Special, loaded to +P specs.

OP, with my SA Lightweight Commander (.45acp) the stock recoil spring is 22lbs. It recoiled just a hair more than my old SA 5" Loaded did. I found just going up a couple of pounds on the recoil spring really helps with the Aluminum Framed Commanders. And going up just a couple of pounds isn't going to affect feeding or reliability on an already reliable 1911. Wolff "Extra Power" magazine springs are a nice ensuring in regards to positive feeding and all my serious use magazines get them installed. The slightly beefed up springs might help your Aluminum framed pistol perform more like the Steel framed 1911's.

The BHP lacks a tactile reset, which is a little weird for me. Has always kept me away. A BHP was the first first semi-auto I ever fired. I was thirteen. It was a friend of my dad's. I got to fire like 4 rounds. Didn't come close to hitting anything.

OP HERE:

Since, as I discussed above, I had some minor issues with the Colt Competition 9mm on its first trip to the range, I wanted to run some different rounds through it today. In the first session the slide often didn't lock back with the weaker Federal Walmart Brass 115gr I was using, and I had a few failures to feed with Federal 124gr HST. When I got home I looked at the profile of the 147gr HST and decided it would probably feed batter than the 124gr in the Competition model.

I brought a bunch of different 147gr ammo with me today and ran a few mags of each through the Colt Competition 9mm. It ran flawlessly. It really seemed to like all the 147gr ammo. Here is what I ran: 147gr Fed HST, 147gr Remington Golden Sablers, 147gr Speer Gold Dots, 147gr Winchester Ranger T, and 147gr AM Flat Nose FMJ. It ate it all! I tired both the Colt and Kimber mags with each type of ammo, and they both worked great.


Here is a pic of the first group of 147gr HST I ran through the Colt Competition today. I shot it quickly to make sure it fed well. And it did. Shooting was 9 rounds at 10 yards. My first four shots were on the red :)




Both the Combat Commander 9mm (Steel Frame) and the LightWeight Commander 9mm (Alloy Frame) have run flawlessly. However, I decided to see how they ran with the 147gr HST. Why not just use the same defensive round for all my 1911 9mms. I put a few mags of the 147gr HST through both guns and they ran flawlessly. So 147gr HST for them all!

I had one very interesting observation from today. Of the 3 pistols, the Combat Commander steel framed 9mm handled the best for me. For some reason it recoils less for me than the Government sized Competition 9mm. The weight different between the two guns fully loaded is only 3 ounces. It is hard to explain but the longer slide of the Government sized gun has different recoiling characteristics than the Commander. Whatever it is, the all steel commander is just easier for me to control from shot to shot, and I can shoot it faster and more accurately then the Government sized model. I will be messing around a lot more over the weeks to follow and see how this plays out. But for now I shoot the all steel Combat Commander 9mm the fastest and most accurately out of the lot.

When I finished playing around with the 1911s today, I brought along one of my hi-cap polymer 9mm pistols, my CZ P-07 Suppressor Ready model. I absolutely shoot the lights out with this gun. It is not uncommon for me to put several rounds in one hole with this gun. Today was no exception, but I was amazed how much more recoil this gun had compared to all three Colt 1911 9mms I have been shooting. The difference is really shocking!

As usual, more to come as I spend more time with my stable of 9mm Colts :)

@CD, interesting choice, when a lot of guys are going double stack, 9mm.   What made you go that route?   Not doubting at all, just want to know the angle.   Take care, thanks.

I grew up on 1911s, first issued in 84' in 5th SFGA.  Flat to carry and no issue sticking in waistband to carry without a holster.  I can run them hard and hit with them.  Granted I'm also a Glock armorer and know that they are extremely reliable.  Only reason I'm back to carrying a G19 right now down range is that they sent the M1911A1s back to SOCOM earlier this summer from Afghanistan  There's a few 1911 still over here but none in my arms locker.  Still prefer a M79 grenade launcher over any of the new replacements (M203/M320/Mk13) but will take a Mk17 SCAR over a M14 or FAL even though I love the older two (better with optics).

CD