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Posted: 9/19/2017 4:18:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
So, I've acquired a number of different 9mm guns. Mostly because I like trying new things and I'm somewhat new (bought my first gun ~5 years ago) to shooting. I really value each of them and am reasonably happy with how I shoot all of them. I'm not a great shooter by any means, but I'm getting better and would like to continue to get better. Currently, I own a full size XDM (nightstand gun), 5" S&W M&P Pro (USPSA Production use), a S&W Shield (concealed carry) and a Glock 19 style franken-gun (Lone Wolf Frame, PWS Slide, Overwatch trigger - concealed carry). As I said, I like all of them and none of them are bone stock (though the M&P Pro is pretty close, for obvious reasons). For purposes of this thread, please leave the manufacturer rooting out of it. So, here are my two questions: 1. How much value is there in moving to a single "type" of gun/trigger to standardize my shooting mechanics? I've got very different trigger/grip/recoil impulse experiences going on here. I can't help but think it would aid my improvement as a shooter to try to focus on one trigger feel and really master that. 2. I'd like to run some drills to determine which direction to head, should I decide to standardize. I ran the Dot Torture test for the first time this past weekend and it seems like it would be a good, standard test. I have this 5x5 Drill on my to do list as well. Are there any others I should look at? Thanks 1. I am against only learning to be proficient with 1 brand or 1 handgun model. You never know when you will find yourself in a situation where you may not have your handgun. I think you should be proficient with a handgun not a (insert brand) and be able to pick up X Y or Z and be able to hit a target at 15m. Fundamentals and fundamentals they translate from a Sig to a Glock to a HK to a CZ. 2. Yeah I am better with X brand on a timer but give me a minute or two to adjust to Y or Z and I can get better with each magazine my times will improve. Fundamentals are fundamentals. |
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Posted: 9/19/2017 4:19:25 PM EDT
[#2]
I shoot a little USPSA and I have found that the top shooters shoot best with their preferred gear but are still excellent shooters with most types of quality gear.
IOW, it's not the arrow, it's the indian. Practice more, compete more, and you'll shoot better. |
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Posted: 9/19/2017 5:46:25 PM EDT
[#3]
I used to have a plethora of assorted handguns in every caliber "just because".... (Sig P-series, Berettas, Glocks, M&Ps, FNs, XDs, 1911s, etc.)
One day I asked myself the same question you are asking, and I made the decision to simplify platforms and calibers. Now I train with nothing but Glock handguns chambered in 9mm, which is also what I carry on duty. There is no roll that a 17/19/26 trio can't fill, mags are interchangeable, and the platform is standardized. I like it much better this way 
I still own a few other handguns because of collector value or "fun factor". (1911 Operator, Beretta M9, and many revolvers) Most of these only come out of the safe a couple times a year just to knock the dust off. |
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Posted: 9/19/2017 5:55:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Consider formal training from a reputably source.
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Posted: 9/19/2017 5:59:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to have a plethora of assorted handguns in every caliber "just because".... (Sig P-series, Berettas, Glocks, M&Ps, FNs, XDs, 1911s, etc.) One day I asked myself the same question you are asking, and I made the decision to simplify platforms and calibers. Now I train with nothing but Glock handguns chambered in 9mm, which is also what I carry on duty. There is no roll that a 17/19/26 trio can't fill, mags are interchangeable, and the platform is standardized. I like it much better this way
I still own a few other handguns because of collector value or "fun factor". (1911 Operator, Beretta M9, and many revolvers) Most of these only come out of the safe a couple times a year just to knock the dust off. |
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Posted: 9/19/2017 6:37:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Precision, 50 yard shooter bullseye gun are roles the glock can not fill. There is no one jack of all trades. As my dear old dad used to say guns are like golf clubs one for each different mission. If you want to get good at defensive pistol shooting one platform makes it easier but the really good shooter can pick up anything and run with it Your analogy only works if you're classifying each niche role like a type of club. Defensive autos as putters, USPSA open guns as drivers... etc. Anyway you slice it a putter is a putter, regardless of brand. A Glock, M&P, CZ, HK, etc. all fill the same role, and having several different brands does not really offer an advantage over standardization. |
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Posted: 9/19/2017 8:32:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Pick one and shoot it exclusively for 3 or 4 months. That lets you get familiar with the gun and begin to build up some muscle memory for operating it so that you can concentrate on executing your stage plans.
Pick drills that involve multiple targets, reloads, and draws (in that order), like El Pres and its variations. |
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Posted: 9/19/2017 9:16:02 PM EDT
[#8]
I think you'll shoot better if you go back to stock and take a class from a reputable instructor. All the tweaks you make to get a better trigger are just masking problems with fundamentals. Get good with a DA pistol and you'll see how much better you are with a modified one.
ETA: put me in the camp of fundamentals apply across platforms. |
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Posted: 9/19/2017 10:01:00 PM EDT
[#9]
I have formal training with the 1911, M9, P226, P228, P229, P239, Glock 22, 23, 27, 17, 19, 26, and 34.
I can pick up any of those pistols and shoot them fairly competently. I have been shooting 9mm Glocks exclusively for a good while now and I am much better with those since the training is fresh. I believe it's a good thing to be at least familiar with most common firearms, but you need to really prioritize the guns that you will actually be using. I would rather be extremely skilled only with the pistol in my holster, than half assed with every gun on the market that's hanging around in the safe at home. I'm standardized on Glocks. 19s and 43s. It's the only handguns I own. From the stuff you own, I'd advise stick with the M&P for your fullsize gun and the shield for the deep concealment/NPE gun. |
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Posted: 9/19/2017 10:32:10 PM EDT
[#10]
I have 85+ handguns, rifles, shotguns. I honestly believe that I can pull the trigger on any firearm that I have and hit centermass at any reasonable distance.
Keep your assortment of firearms and enjoy shooting them knowing that you can defend yourself with any of them if need be. |
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Posted: 9/19/2017 11:21:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to have a plethora of assorted handguns in every caliber "just because".... (Sig P-series, Berettas, Glocks, M&Ps, FNs, XDs, 1911s, etc.) One day I asked myself the same question you are asking, and I made the decision to simplify platforms and calibers. Now I train with nothing but Glock handguns chambered in 9mm, which is also what I carry on duty. There is no roll that a 17/19/26 trio can't fill, mags are interchangeable, and the platform is standardized. I like it much better this way
I still own a few other handguns because of collector value or "fun factor". (1911 Operator, Beretta M9, and many revolvers) Most of these only come out of the safe a couple times a year just to knock the dust off. Otherwise I completely agree. Focus on getting good with one type, but own as many as you want for fun. |
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Posted: 9/19/2017 11:32:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Woods carry? Otherwise I completely agree. Focus on getting good with one type, but own as many as you want for fun. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 6:44:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to have a plethora of assorted handguns in every caliber "just because".... (Sig P-series, Berettas, Glocks, M&Ps, FNs, XDs, 1911s, etc.) One day I asked myself the same question you are asking, and I made the decision to simplify platforms and calibers. Now I train with nothing but Glock handguns chambered in 9mm,  ) that wasn't a Glock 17 or a .22. I now only have two glock 17's, one chopped to 19 length, and a new M&P9 for S&G's. There really isn't a point in having tons of different guns if you are a serious shooter IMHO. I realized I am not a collector and prefer to shoot what I own and having a safe full of pistols of various types made absolutely no sense. I can pretty much pick up any gun and shoot it competently as can most shooters, that doesn't mean I need to train with it. A lot of people on here seem to live in a fantasy world where in their minds an apocolypse is imminent and you are going to be faced with situations where you need to scramble to find guns to shoot to survive...as if all your current guns you own disappear or something 
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Posted: 9/20/2017 7:14:24 AM EDT
[#14]
yes you can and will get better if you switch to one platform (or at least one manual of arms) and spend the money you spent on gear on ammo and training. I like variety and had a ton of crap, but started real consolidation. Now I carry/compete/HD with either a 1911 or M&P. they have the same grip angle, similar sights, safeties work the same way, etc. I often swipe the nonexistent thumb safety of my M&P when I pick it up, but who cares? Glock buddies grab my 1911 and it doesn't go bang because they didn't hit it, since they aren't used to it.
you get better from dedicated practice and training. dry fire, reloads, draws from the holster, cardio, etc. all the shit that sucks. it's way cooler to talk about what round for bears or instagram a pic of a Zev Glock than it is to skip a cookie and practice sprints. I could live with a shield, 2011 9mm, and 1911 and be done collecting. shoot them till the finish comes off, refinish, repeat. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 8:17:20 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Woods carry? Otherwise I completely agree. Focus on getting good with one type, but own as many as you want for fun. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 8:22:27 AM EDT
[#16]
JMHO, better to be great with one pistol the good with all.
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Posted: 9/20/2017 8:29:09 AM EDT
[#17]
What are your goals as a shooter? If you are a competitor and only speed and scores are your goal, then clearly, using only one firearm would be preferable and easier. If you are a Warrior......Well, one of the greatest of the Samurai, Myamoto Musashi had this to say about your question nearly 400 years ago-
"You should not have a favorite weapon, or any other exaggerated preference for that matter. To become overly attached to one weapon is as bad as not knowing it sufficiently well. " It seems things don't change much do they? |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 9:18:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Variety is the spice of life.
Even though it's important, there's alot more to gun ownership than practicality. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 9:19:38 AM EDT
[#19]
Thanks for the responses so far.
Can more people address the second question? Providing links to videos or instructions would be great. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 9:24:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the responses so far. Can more people address the second question? Providing links to videos or instructions would be great. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 10:06:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
YouTube is full of videos just start watching and subscribing to channels then more suggestions will keep popping up. Their is no magical test, video, or special drill that will make you a better shooter or tell you exactly what you need to know. Only practice or take some classes with a professional instructor someone to critic you, guide you, and teach you what you desire. And since you brought it up, trainer recommendations would be great. I've been in class with Karl Rehn (KR Training), Massad Ayoob and Integrity FTC thus far, but am always looking for trainers, particularly people in Texas that are easy for me to get to. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 12:49:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Whatever you do, use a shot timer & do some draw / reload stuff.
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Posted: 9/20/2017 1:08:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whatever you do, use a shot timer & do some draw / reload stuff. USPSA Qualifiers are good building blocks for muscle memory. One drill that I like that isn't on the above list is "El Mozambique". Same as the classic El Presidente, but it's two strings of 9 rounds, 18 rounds total. Three shots per target, two to the chest, one to the head. And once you master your chosen drill, do it one handed. Once you've mastered that, do it with your support hand with two and then one hand. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 1:25:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not looking for anything magical. Just suggestions. Youtube has great stuff and crap - I'd just like to get a head start separating the two. And since you brought it up, trainer recommendations would be great. I've been in class with Karl Rehn (KR Training), Massad Ayoob and Integrity FTC thus far, but am always looking for trainers, particularly people in Texas that are easy for me to get to. |
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Posted: 9/21/2017 12:26:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
So, here are my two questions: 1. How much value is there in moving to a single "type" of gun/trigger to standardize my shooting mechanics? I've got very different trigger/grip/recoil impulse experiences going on here. I can't help but think it would aid my improvement as a shooter to try to focus on one trigger feel and really master that. 2. I'd like to run some drills to determine which direction to head, should I decide to standardize. I ran the Dot Torture test for the first time this past weekend and it seems like it would be a good, standard test. I have this 5x5 Drill on my to do list as well. Are there any others I should look at? Thanks 1. A lot. 2. 25 yard Bill Drills |
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Posted: 9/21/2017 8:53:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes you can and will get better if you switch to one platform (or at least one manual of arms) and spend the money you spent on gear on ammo and training. I like variety and had a ton of crap, but started real consolidation. Now I carry/compete/HD with either a 1911 or M&P. they have the same grip angle, similar sights, safeties work the same way, etc. I often swipe the nonexistent thumb safety of my M&P when I pick it up, but who cares? Glock buddies grab my 1911 and it doesn't go bang because they didn't hit it, since they aren't used to it. you get better from dedicated practice and training. dry fire, reloads, draws from the holster, cardio, etc. all the shit that sucks. it's way cooler to talk about what round for bears or instagram a pic of a Zev Glock than it is to skip a cookie and practice sprints. I could live with a shield, 2011 9mm, and 1911 and be done collecting. shoot them till the finish comes off, refinish, repeat. |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 9:20:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is my concern. I carry a 1911 and a G19. I practice my draw with both. Concerned in a panic situation I might draw the 1911 and not drop the safety. |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 8:17:41 PM EDT
[#28]
The handguns you own have several common variables, 1911 grip angle and relatively light weight. You need to try an all steel pistol in the mix. Not always great for carry but will make you a better pistolero (in my opinion).
Look up Ron Avery on youtube and watch a few of his videos. |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 8:27:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The handguns you own have several common variables, 1911 grip angle and relatively light weight. You need to try an all steel pistol in the mix. Not always great for carry but will make you a better pistolero (in my opinion). Look up Ron Avery on youtube and watch a few of his videos. |
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Posted: 9/23/2017 12:05:26 PM EDT
[#30]
There are some 9mm double stack options other that 1911's.
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Posted: 9/24/2017 10:08:58 AM EDT
[#31]
I am absolutely no help to you in this thread. I shoot a M&P Pro for IDPA and carry a Glock 19 with RMR. I have a safe full of pistols from Sig, Taurus, Ruger, H&K, ect ect that I shoot now and then.
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Posted: 9/24/2017 6:06:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Beware the man that only has one gun.
He may know how to use it very well. I had a cousin that can shoot skeet with a .22 RF rifle and beat just about anyone. He even did it once on a unicycle. 25/25. |
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Posted: 9/26/2017 6:48:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Do you shoot USPSA?
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Posted: 9/26/2017 10:13:14 PM EDT
[#34]
My go to guns are the Glock 17, 19 and 26. But I still have a lot of dfferent types and brands. Some fill a purpose others are because it was cheap and others for fun.
I believe as a shooter I should be proficient with any gun in hand. Whereas my friends try one of mine out amd blame their accuracy on the sights, grip and trigger I shoot theirs and most times outdo them. Sometimes I do want to sell all my other stuff for ammo and gear and stick with just my go tos but visiting Mexico where they stare in awe of my modest collection I'm happy to be American and able to be a shooter and collector. Plus life is short not to have fun. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 12:08:18 AM EDT
[#35]
I like shooting lots of different guns. Familiarity with different stuff is useful and shooting more stuff is just fun.
But I really only train with my work/carry gun. Muscle memory and being intimately familiar with what I carry is most important to me. I like the 9 dot drill as a warm up and cool down drill. Mix in holster drills, shooting from cover, different positions, if you don't have dummy rounds put some spent brass in the mag to induce a malfunction. I learned that for me that malfunctions are easier to fix on my block than my cz, because I have big hands and the cz has a thinner slide. I love shooting 1911s, they are amazing to shoot and scream America, but I'm not comfortable with 8 rounds in something I might have to fight with. The more you shoot with good fundamentals the better you will get regardless of the gun, and you will learn what mechanical aspects of your guns you prefer. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 7:17:37 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is my concern. I carry a 1911 and a G19. I practice my draw with both. Concerned in a panic situation I might draw the 1911 and not drop the safety. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 8:42:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot a little USPSA and I have found that the top shooters shoot best with their preferred gear but are still excellent shooters with most types of quality gear. IOW, it's not the arrow, it's the indian. Practice more, compete more, and you'll shoot better. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 9:10:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Beware the man that only has one gun. He may know how to use it very well. I had a cousin that can shoot skeet with a .22 RF rifle and beat just about anyone. He even did it once on a unicycle. 25/25. Everybody should take every opportunity to learn every weapon they can get their hands on you never know the day your Glock 19 will not be there and you are holding a M9\1911\P7\CZ 75\vis 35\P-08\P-38\BHP or who know in your hands. I want to be able to pick up any sidearm and be able to makes hits at 20m on a man sized target... Not be an expert marksman but be more than capable of shooting anything. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 9:51:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Well the good part of that statement is that pretty much all of the modern service weapons are a version of the Glock 19.
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Posted: 9/27/2017 10:09:23 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well the good part of that statement is that pretty much all of the modern service weapons are a version of the Glock 19.  You are going to be loved tenderly for such a statement to some of the fanboys... 
ETA I completely agree they all plug out little piece of lead and copper. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 10:56:05 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Only caveat I'll add is that, as a lifelong Glock shooter that only owns Glocks, I really struggle on the draw with handguns that have funky grip angles, particularly the 1911. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 4:55:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you shoot USPSA? |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 5:27:33 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes Truthfully I'd just pick one and go. The gun is the least important component anyway. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 5:48:42 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Set up a mini stage and run your different guns then. Truthfully I'd just pick one and go. The gun is the least important component anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes Truthfully I'd just pick one and go. The gun is the least important component anyway. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 7:29:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Depending on what I'm shooting the most, I find that:
1) I'm fast with a Glock, or 2) I'm fast with most everything else except for Glock. Solution: I just don't really shoot Glocks seriously that much anymore. If I liked shooting Glocks more than the other stuff I'd do the reverse. When I pick up a handgun and it points well, I pretty much know I can shoot it as well as anything else I currently shoot. Glock isn't one of those handguns. Pick what you want to be proficient with right now and practice with that until you are, then start working in other pistols that point the same for you. If something doesn't point well for you, just screw around with it at the range, because there's no point running timed or holster drills with it. You can always retrain on something else, but there's so many good options out there it's easier to get a handgun that works for you than you having to work to shoot well with the handgun. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 8:45:21 PM EDT
[#46]
I've found that the more I shoot it's less important WHAT I shoot
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Posted: 9/27/2017 8:56:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Set up a mini stage and run your different guns then. Truthfully I'd just pick one and go. The gun is the least important component anyway. |
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Posted: 9/27/2017 11:22:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my experience as someone who's shot competition for a number of years and likes to try out different guns, I've found you can shoot well with almost anything (within reason) if you practice exclusively with that gun for several months. |
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Posted: 9/28/2017 5:19:39 AM EDT
[#49]
Depends on the shooter maybe, however I would say frequency is more important. For a while I shot Bulls eye twice a week (Practice and score) and Combat twice a week (Practice and score). I was using two different guns for Bulls Eye and a third for Combat. I seriously improved my scores across the board with all three weapons. The principle is still the same, sight alignment and trigger control.
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Posted: 9/28/2017 8:26:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Just imagine what happens when you shoot exclusively one gun for several years! |
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