I'm looking to add a new CCW pistol to my rotation (along side a Cajun CZ P-01). My Cajun CZ PCR is getting retired as I'm moving to lights on all CCWs after some recent events (will probably sell it on the exchange, PM me if you want to get in early). The requirements are as follows:

1.) Must be able to have the slide milled for an RMR and irons. Irons must be behind the RMR, helps me pick up the dot.

2.) Must be able to attach a light of some variety (even small ones like the Viridian CTL, Olight PL-1 II Mini, Crimson Trace Rail Master, Surefire XC-1, or Streamlight TLR-3, or feel free to suggest more small quality lights) to the pistol.

3.) Must chambered in 9mm, and be able to handle my CCW load of choice the 127gr Winchester Ranger T +p+. The barrel must be 3in+ as well.

4.) Must be $1500 or less for the pistol alone (sorry Ed Brown fans).

5.) Must be at least a semi-compact, not much larger than a CZ P-01 max. Will be carried AIWB roughly 70% of the time, IWB, OWB, and belly band will also happen with some frequency depending on daily work/dress needs, and that is the ideal size.

6.) I'm a bit of a trigger snob on pistols, so basically whichever I end up getting will be sent off to get trigger work done (probably when the slide is milled). The focus is on getting rounds on target as fast and accurately as possible.

With those requirements, I've compiled a list of pistols that seem to fit the bill (I think, not 100% on all of them) as well as some basic information on them. I've gone out of my way to handle and shoot most of them. I've compiled them all into a spreadsheet here:  https://docs.zoho.com/sheet/published.do?rid=1lmj6eed44f25d89b44d38f079d92034f393c&mode=html for convenience. Before commenting you should really check it out, but I'll give a quick list below to make referencing easier:

CZ P1-10 CCZ P-07Grand Power P1Kriss Sphinx SDP Compact AlphaWalther PPQ M2Glock 19 Gen 5Canik TP9SF EliteS&W M&P 2.0 CompactS&W M&P9cSIG P229 LegionSpringfield Armory XD(M) CompactH&K P30 V0 or V3H&K P30SKH&K P2000SKH&K VP9SKRuger American Pistol CompactBeretta Px4 Storm Compact CarrySteyr S9-A1Prime Group/Arsenal/Salient Stryk-BRex Zero 1 CompactSiCo Maxim 9 (not small, but I'd still be interested in trying to carry it)Rock Island Armory TAC Ultra CS 9mm

We really are living in the golden age of firearms, there are just so many good choices! So, sell me on one. Which should I get and why? All comments are welcome, including updating the spreadsheet, and making other suggestions.

P.S. before you comment, yes the P320 compact and FNS/FNX C both qualify. I just don't really like either enough to buy and carry one.

Take a look at a Sig P239 in 9mm. World class pistol.

Always g19

TL; DR

G19. Get 2.

usp compact

p10c

You seem to like the CZs so I say the P07

Thanks for the suggestions so far.  But folks, you fail as salesmen!  Tell me why the pistol you are suggesting is more worthy of my time any money than any other on the list.

If you are going to carry a lot AIWB my .02 is carry something with a hammer that way when you are holstering you can place your thumb on the hammer.  This gives you the capability that if you snag on something as you holster you will feel the force pulling the hammer back so you can stop and clear.

The P-07 with a Cajun job would be IMO the superior pistol.  Also you can carry back up 19/21 round P-09 mags.  I really like my P-09 and will eventually get a P-07 I just want to snag one used for a good price and not buy new.  I did the Cajun job on my P-09 and I must say it is an amazing trigger even with the carry package springs I used.  I can hit a IPSC torso target at 50m with easy.  In all honesty you have a list of really good pistols and you will be served well by any of them.  I daily carry a G19.4 and have no plans to change but if I were it would a a Cajuned P-07.

The ups compact is a great size, built like a tank and can be configured in a variety of ways.  The P10c is just a fantastic gun, some are calling it the glock 19 Gen 6

OP wants reasons?

The G19 is one of the most proven reliable handguns out there.  IT has the perfect size and capacity in a powerful enough round to be effective against two legged predators.

The aftermarket from magwells to sights to triggers etc. for them is nearly endless. The bulk of weapon lights are designed around the Glock 19 (APL-C and XC1).  The fact that they work on others is gravy for the company.  

Mags both OEM and after market (Magpul and ETS, Korean) are all plentiful and cheap.

S&W M&P 2.0 that is coming out and CZ P10c recognized that and copied the size.

Im going with a Glock 19. As it is easy to conceal, 9mm, too many after market things to name to customise it to fit you  perfect, you can get a striker control device to safely reholster, if you need to fix or change anything its simple to do.Access to gssf learn and train. A Glock 19 seema to fit your needs perfect woth all the above listed.

Thanks those have been some great responses.  I agree the G19/CZ P-01 size is pretty perfect.  Although I must say things like the M&P 9c and the H&K SK's seem like ideal compromises between them and the truly compact guns.

S&W is coming out with a 2.0 in the 19 size.

I'd get an MOS G19 and a Ghost Evo Elite 3.5 connector and 5 minutes with a polishing wheel.

Or see what Cajun Gun Works has in the way of already slicked up P-07's.

You can get one of these (assuming they even have any right now) or send in a P-07 to them for the pro package and an RMR cut.


https://cajungunworks.com/product/cz-p-07-9mm-pro-grade-urban-grey-sr/


I've not gotten my hands on one of their worked guns but I've yet to hear one bad thing. Most say the trigger is near perfection for a traditional DA.

G19

I have done the packages to my P-09 and SP-01 it is awesome and best DA/SA trigger outside of the race guns realm.

You buy the kit or have them fit one?

I plan on getting the pro package for my P-01 in the future, after I shoot it enough to where I think it's time. Stock trigger on it isn't bad, it's smoothed out well from just dry firing, but if I can get it better and still be reliable and not to the point of me not feeling comfortable using it for defense, I'm all for it.

Did it myself 75BD -SRS-2, SP-01 full pro package, and P-09 full duty package.  I also did it for my friend on his P-07 and another friends P-01/SP-01  The Omega trigger upgrade is pretty easy.  The 75 trigger is a little more complicated but not impossible if you have the right tools.  The hardest part is putting the decocker spring in on the Omega and getting the trigger reset spring in takes a little patience.  First 75 trigger took some time but learned a lot and the Sp-01 was a little easier.  Lost the lifter spring in my carpet the first time because it is so tiny and it fell off the bench when I tried to pick it up.  Get a magnet and keep the small parts attached to it, prevents you from accidentally losing them.

I found pictures online that showed a step by step with a picture to reference it was easy to do.  IM me if you have questions about doing it.

I sure am happy with my Walther PPQ. it has been perfect in every way.

God, stuff like that is why I need a white rubber floor to work on. I figure it won't be that difficult. I've yet to do a full detail strip on a CZ though. Maybe I'll get bored and do it tomorrow...

If it was me, I'd rally take a good look at the new M&P 2.0 compact.  I'm a fan of the M&P and it seems S&W may have finally gotten the size right.

Didn't read the thread.

Did anyone suggest a Glock 19?

Glock 26 or 19

Inexpensive, reliable and huge aftermarket available for holsters etc. I have done the merry go round on CCW guns over the past several years and have tried a lot of what is on your list and ALWAYS come back to Glock.

The CZs (and I love them) feel a lot larger on the belt than a Glock 19 does.

I got to try a poly framed P07 and P10c the other day, and you are right, they feel larger than the G19.  The P-01, not so much, although it is a bit heavier.  I was extremely impressed with a Steyr L9A1 I shot recently, anyone have any XP with the S9A1?  Seems like a better "glock killer" than the P10c.

Accessories are limited, mags are kind of pricey(like the CZ), and no such thing as killer of any pistol.  The Steyr line up are good pistols the sights are a love hate thing so you either like them or not.  They all do the same thing at the end of the day.  Find something you like train with it and be proficient with it that is what really matters.  The P07/P10 are slightly bigger than a G19 but you have gotten to the point of splitting hairs.

I have a p-01 p10c g19  and the VP9sk that  all get some carry time but the VP9Sk seems to be the most comfortable.  
 I love the p10 but it is a cheese grater against the skin.  I will texture it to something less aggressive soon.   I imagine it will be my primary then.  

   Lots of good pistols in your list but none are any better than the holster you carry it in.

Update is as follows.

Over the last month, I have been going to various rental ranges, borrowing from friends and family, and generally trying out as many pistols from my list (and off it) as possible against my Cajunized CZ P-01 as the constant. This process against reminded me of the massive importance of try before you buy especially with carry guns. Some expected favorites didn't do so well, and others really shined as I will detail below. But I want to make a serious point, that for what I've spent on rentals and ammo in the last month, I could easily have purchased some of the firearms on here and I would have been much worse off for doing so. If you have the means, it is well worth renting and/or borrowing as many possible CCW pistols as possible before you choose. I did the same thing 6 years ago when I went from a G19 to a CZ, and this recent process just reminded me against how important it is.

Alright, enough rambling, onto the notes. Disclaimer: all results are just my personal experience with my hands and training (90% of which is on glocks, steyrs, and CZs). Yours may be radically different, and I encourage you to not take my results as gospel, but try for yourself. Pistols I got to test (9mm unless denoted): S&W M&P9c and M&P 9c 2.0, Ruger American full size, H&K P30 V3, H&K VP9sk, H&K USP .40 full size, Springfield Armory XD(m) Compact 9mm, Steyr M9-A1, Glock 19 Gen 4, Glock 29 Gen 3 10mm, Beretta Px4 Storm Full size .45, Kimber Ultra CDP, Colt LW Commander, Sig P229 Nitron, Walther PPQ.

  Pistols ranked in terms of accuracy at 7m-25m (slow and fast): Kimber>Colt>Springfield XDM>>CZ P-01>HK P30>SIG P229>Steyr M9A1>VP9SK>Walther PPQ=Glock 29>HK USP>Glock 19>M&P 2.0>Ruger American>Px4 Storm>M&P9c.

  Pistols ranked in terms of trigger: Kimber>CZ (cajun)>Springfield XDM>Colt>Walther>Glock 19 (DK Custom)>Steyr>P229>HK VP9>Px4 Storm>Glock 29>HK P30>HK USP>Ruger American>>>M&Ps (2.0 not much better).

   Pistols ranked in terms of ergos under firing, perceived recoil, and speed: Kimber>Colt>Springfield XDM>Steyr>Glock 19>CZ>>M&P2.0>>HK P30>PPQ>VP9sk>Ruger American>Px4 Storm>Glock 29 (no pinky extension in 10mm)>>HK USP.

There are some real standouts here that have helped me narrow my list considerably. First, Kimber has had QC issues for years now that have firmly dropped it out of the "high end" 1911 market. But this one was damn near perfect for hundreds of rounds, and holy shit did it shoot stunningly well in my hands. The officer frame was too small for my hand, so I will get a commander if I get a 1911, but even with that it was printing ragged holes at 15y mag after mag, and just felt so damn buttery smooth in recoil it was almost like I could track the front sight the entire time, making it very fast. Had an amazing trigger too. The Colt LW Commander wasn't far behind but even though it was larger the trigger and barrel (I think) left it lagging behind the kimber most of the time. Both really made the 1911 platform look very attractive even with all the obvious drawbacks like capacity and mags.

The other large standout is the Springfield Armory XDM. When I loaded up 13 rounds and went to shoot, my first five rounds tore one ragged hole in the center of an IPSC target's head at 10m, and that was without the pinky extension! I don't know why this pistol doesn't get talked about more than it does, because the trigger is hands down the best striker fired trigger I've felt. This is even when directly compared with the lauded PPQ, and a G19 with the DK custom carry trigger. It also has a deceptively low bore axis, and wasn't nearly as "flippy" (although none of the 9mms were really flippy, just compared to one another) as say the VP9sk or even P-01. What stunned me even more was the price, these things can be picked up for under $400!

Lastly, I have some general comments about most of the guns I shot:

-    My EDC CZ P-01 with Cajun Pro & CZC grips: I thought it was going to clean house, and it didn't. Was always in the top 5, mostly in the top 3, but still lagging more than I would have thought or liked, and that is after thousands of rounds training. I have almost no time on 1911s and still outshot it, same with the XDM very shockingly. Now has me considering changing up my EDC entirely.

-    S&W M&P9c: Terrible trigger, ergos are great though. I don't know if an APEX would fix this and how well. Also L&M Precision said they've seen high failure rates with APEX triggers in these.

-    S&W M&P9c 2.0: Sand paper grip, I wouldn't ever want to wear this without a T-shirt. Trigger still awful, but not quite as bad as the 1.0s. Again, unsure of how much better the APEX would make it.

-    Ruger American full size: A bland pistol which managed to be middle of the back of the pack in almost everything.

-    H&K P30 V3: Disapointingly heavy and long DA and stage-y. SA is alright but not great. Not sure if Gray Guns would fix this, but 10-12 weeks and $365 for an already expensive gun doesn't make it very appealing. Also "flippier" than others. And the mag release was difficult.

-    H&K VP9sk: Same as the P30 but with more flip. However the VP9sk trigger was better, but not as good as the Steyr or PPQ or XDM. Mag relase somehow even worse.

-    H&K USP .40 full size: Somehow felt less controllable than the Glock 29 10mm with no pinky extension. I'm not sure why people spend the money they do on these.

-    Springfield Armory XD(m) Compact 9mm: See notes above, a real standout and serious contender.

-    Steyr M9-A1: Better than a Glock in every way, but a little top heavy without mag. Great trigger OOTB, again don't know why these aren't more popular. Almost as good as the PPQ trigger. Sadly this and the smaller S9-A1 are disqualified because they cannot mount a red dot on the slide.

-    Glock 19 Gen 4: With the DK trigger this was very pleasant to shoot. Fast as well. But not very accurate. Came away with the same impression I did 6 years ago "why would I own one over a CZ P-01?"

-    Glock 29 Gen 3 10mm: Amazingly good pistol. Even without a pinky extension it was a ton of fun to shoot, more than accurate enough, and felt like a much larger gun than it is (in a good way). Not the best trigger, but plenty of aftermarket for that. Speed was surprisingly good for 10mm, and has me seriously considering one for EDC or just a woods gun. I have no idea why people carry revolvers when the Glock 29 exists.

-    Beretta Px4 Storm Full size .45: A pretty heavy DA trigger, but the SA was great. Not impressed by the felt recoil, which is supposed to be a selling point. The smaller compact carry is also disqualified for being a PITA to mount an RMR to the slide, but I wouldn't have gotten one anyways as these are FAT pistols.

-    Kimber Ultra CDP & Colt LW Commander: see notes above, never thought I'd carry a 1911 but I might now.

-    Sig P229 Nitron, great shooter, but flippier than the CZ and significantly larger. Came away with the same impression as 6 years ago "why would I own one over a P-01?"

-    Walther PPQ: With all the hype I was pretty excited to try it. Trigger let me down a bit (although it is good, the XDM felt better to me) and the "flippiness" let me down more. It is also pretty sizeable, reminded me of the P229 in that respect.

Pistols I didn't get to try but still want to: CZ P10c, Stryk-B, and an M&P with an Apex trigger.

That is it for now, I will make another follow up thread with specifics on my next moves, hopefully after trying the P-10c.

Feel free to ask questions, discuss, and make any comments or recommendations with the above information you want.

Great write up and info!

Nice thoughts but I would never trust a Kimber with my life.  I own two and they have their quirks but because of their hit or miss quality or quirkiness I would never trust them as a daily carry.  To many better options in the same class IMO than Kimber and their support/warranty sucks.

Agreed on Kimber, I wouldn't buy one either.  But it did show me what even a mid range 1911 can do.  Right now I'm considering the Ruger SR1911 6722 (the lightweight commander), Springfield Armory Range Officer Elite Champion, Colt Lightweight Commander, and maybe if I really stretch the budget, a Dan Wesson Valkyrie.  The Colt left a little to be desired and I don't want to spend a fortune on 1911 gunsmithing, but it would work great.  I didn't get to try a SA commander, but I did get to fondle (not shoot) a Springfield EMP and the trigger left something to be desired.  If anyone has any suggestions in the 1911 world, I'd be glad too hear them, I'm much less familiar with them than I am the modern poly guns.

Also for folks reading the above impressions, I forgot to add that these were all one off examples so they certainly do not represent the entire line of pistols.  Some like the Kimber were range guns with god knows how many rounds through them.  Others like the XDM and Colt were friends/family guns which were much newer with fewer rounds.

Dan Wesson and Springfield would be my choices out of your list.  Have you thought about the Springfield EMP line up?

Yeah, the thing about the Dan Wesson is that it is aroound $1250-1300, while the others are all $600-850.  So the question becomes, do I get the Dan Wesson and assume it will be GTG out of the box, or do I get the Ruger/Colt/SA and then pay Wilson Combat or L&M to tune it for me with the extra $400-500?  I don't know what would yield a better firearm in the end.  I know I don't want to wait forever to get my new pistol up and going so the less gunsmithing the better, but obviously if the end result is a much better pistol for the money, I'd go for it.

As for the Springfield EMP, I haven't gotten to shoot one but I handled a brand new one in an LGS.  Felt great, but the trigger felt stiffer than any 1911 I'd tried that day including an RIA which was $300 less.  IDK if break in would solve that or not, but I'd hate to drop $900 on a gun with a trigger that stiff.

One of my friends who I shoot with has an EMP his was kind of heavy to start but after about 200 or so rounds it smoothed out and felt a bit lighter kind of like a CZ as it breaks in.  I would have no issue taking a SA out of the box and running it at the range to test and then carrying as is same with the Dan Wesson.  My TRP has never had an issue from the day I bought it.

I was having the same decision and I'm 90% sure I'm getting an M2.0 Compact.
M2.0 - 450
Apex DCAEK - 150
Milling - 300ish
Sights - 100
RMR type 2 - 500

Total: $1500

Man you people who carry around pistols with optics must live in cold ass places. I carry a Shield 9, and its too big. lol. Your EDC is a full winter parka?

This is going to be my first RMR'd pistol so I'm not sure how much it makes a difference. I can conceal a G19 AIWB with just a T shirt. I'm not even a big dude. I just have a small waist.

AIWB it really isn't bad at all, especially with the right holster (JM Custom Kydex).

As for the Springfield EMP, that is good to hear.

I'm going to do some more shooting over the weekend and will report back.

Nonsense. I can conceal a roland special and a g34 w/SF light with a t shirt.

Quality holster, belt, and posture takes care of it

My EDC is a 5" 1911. No prob with a t-shirt. Same with shorts. A good belt and holster
makes the difference.

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I actually have trouble with rmrs at aiwb. The optic sticks out into the t-shirt to much. I've only breafly tried my wife's. It might work in another holster. I was using a jmcustom aiwb 2.0 with claw

Yeah, if it's not doable, I can always throw the RMR on a G26 or something. A pistol with 5" height is doable, but that RMR adds an extra inch or so, so we'll see.