This is intended to be a technical post on whether a red dot is an advantage on a conceal carry handgun in general.

Just to be clear, I plan to practice often and take classes with either sighting system. I will not be substituting training with equipment.

Please correct my assumptiins if I am wrong, and share any relevant information please.

Assumptions:

- From very close, such as 5-10 feet, there is little difference between red dot vs iron sights

- In an active shooter situation, the red dot would assist in more accurate shots from a longer than typical distance for a CC shooter

- When handgun hunting, the red dot would assist with accurate shots out to a farther distance than iron sights

- A red dot is easier to use in low light

- At medium to long range, a red dot allows for faster target acquisition

Thanks

Aaron Cowan of sage dynamics just posted a very detail oriented paper on justifying mrds for duty use. Some 60+ pages

Check it out

Sagedynamics.org

Awesome, will do!

I'd like to get one but haven't found one that's faster than irons, up close.  This could change if someone comes out with an optic that has a large window like the Trijicon MRO.

Your assumptions are pretty much spot on. I train with carry guns that have red dots and and guns that don't have red dots.

Here are the two advantages of the defensive red dot pistol for me:

-Quicker and more accurate follow up shots
-My first shot also tends to be quicker and more accurate

It just take less time to line up a red dot than it takes to line up iron sights. Having a front and rear sight you need to align adds another dimension to the equation. The simplest way I can explain it, it is 2 dimensional with a red dot, it is 3 dimensional with irons. With the red dot, you just lay the dot on the target and pull the trigger. With irons you put the front sight on the target, make sure the rear sights are somewhat in line with the front sight, then pull the trigger. The latter is just a little slower.

It is also kind of fun using the red dot.

Many people I know are slower at the beginning of getting a red dot.  It takes training yourself to sight align with the red dot and not your irons to get used to it.  I have only shot a RDS pistol a few times each time I got faster and faster as I remembered not to bring the pistol up as high each time.  On a timer you will see it improve as you adjust and get used to a red dot but they are faster I know this much.

I have to wear glasses to see things clearly within a few feet of my face.

If I lose my glasses, I can no longer see the front sight.

If I lose my glasses, the RMR has a fuzzy dot - but I can still put a fuzzy dot on a clear target.

My P07 has dual illuminated RMR on it, from now on.

What he said, until you get a mastery of muscle memory they will be slower, at first quite a lot slower. I shot USPSA years back with a RDS and recently a friend got an RMR on his G17. I am a LOT quicker with my G34 with Dawson FO sights than with his RMR dot, but I haven't shot with a dot in years, also consider in rain. Rain drops on the projector lens could be drama with a dot while it wouldn't affect iron sights. Also the gun will be taller and the holster larger.

IMO no.

I've seen red dots go belly up in matches and wouldn't want that to happen in a defensive situation.

Learn to shoot with your irons first.

My dad is currently making the transition to RDS equipped handguns due to vision problems.  I tried his M&P C.O.R.E. / Vortex Venom and Glock 22 / Trijicon RMR handguns and can tell you I absolutely hated the RMR equipped variants.  

I found the RMR versions to be much slower than using irons, and I had no noticeable increase in accuracy.  The RMR dot was much slower to acquire than the iron sights, and the lens gave a fish-bowl effect to the target.

To me, unless you have a vision problem a RMR is a handicap rather than an advantage... but YMMV

RMR - all day long....

You have to be willing to put in the time to get proficient with one. When I got my first one, I wasn't willing to put in the work to get good with one. Once on target I could put a lot of rounds into a really small target very quickly, but getting on target was a problem. I ended up selling the RMR later.

After selling the RMR I discovered I liked taller sights better. I went from Trijicon HD's to TTI sights and found I was much quicker with them.

Later I found a really good deal on a gun that came with an RMR with the dovetail cut forward of the RMR. I had wanted to try this when I had my first gun cut but chickened out because I was afraid I couldn't get used to the RMR and there I would be, Having a 19 with sub 26 sight radius.

Anyway, I instantly fell in love with it this way. It is much faster than with the rear sight behind the RMR. I still turn the RMR off and shoot irons occasionally just because stuff happens, and I don't feel having both sights in front of the RMR impede anything about using the iron sights.

I will never own a gun any other way.

This.  I just spoke to an officer who was involved in three shootings in his career.  He said sights are basically pointless in a real shooting.  He is still alive to tell me that.  Save your $$$ for ammo and practice.

Meh.... i have a FNX tactical and I put a red dot on it. Honestly I don't even like the gun. Not sure if its the dot or the grip. The whole shooting experience with that gun just leaves me unimpressed. I've considered just trading it out.

I've seen enough Open shooters to know that a red dot is indeed faster, once you put in the time to overcome the adjustment gap, which I've seen to be significant.
If you take an average AR shooter with Iron sights and give them a red dot, they will almost immediately be able to shoot faster and more accurately with it.
It's not the same with the handgun likely do to the smaller window held further away from you. I think if the red dot window were larger so you could see the dot easier, it would help tremendously.

It is even much easier with something like an Aimpoint, and that takes time.  The RMRs are not for me, obviously YMMV.

Ill respect that that worked for him, but ive read many tales to the contrary where sights were important.

Id afree of course that a shot to the balls withon 5 feet would be point shooting

I've tried like 5 RMRs, 1 DPP, and 1 trijicon early model red dot (similar to the BURRIS FF).
The clearest red dots that I know are reliable, like Deltapoint Pros, have questionable battery life.
I think RMRs are probably getting to be 100% reliable (my RM01 was), but the tiny window and tiny and magnification/distortion make close-up transitions slower than irons for me.

I have only put 2000rds through with MRDSs, but even though it's fun to shoot them at 10-25Y, I they slow me down on the timer at the most likely ranges of 3-5 yards. But that's just one target (though the group is smaller) OR with one or two transitions as well.  IF they had a "tube" it would be fast to "tube shoot", by the open ones aren't good at that.

I think soon we'll see guns made with a non-reciprocating mid-and-front section that allows mounting of MRDSs.

In the old days you had to accepting claims like this from someone's uncle's, father-in-law's, brother's, cat-sitters neighbors that was a navy seals support staff before he became a cop, because is was hard to prove wrong. Now days we have body cameras that can refute it.


Start at 1:25 if you want instant gratification.

There is also a Massad ayoob video on YouTube, that he mentions this but I can't remember where I saw it.

I really tried to like my rmr Glock but even after months of practice I was still faster with irons and the rmr fogged up when wet or humid.

Good reason to have irons as well. Not a good reason not to use RDS.

I've seen aimpoints go down as well.

I have a couple 320 compacts, one is an RX and I really see the argument for both. If I needed to make a head shot at 25+ yards I'd take the RDS all day everyday. Within 15 years I don't notice a huge difference in speed or accuracy.

The RDS makes shooting at longer distance much easier and faster.

Get both.