After 2 years I haven't posted enough to pass the text limit...

Just wanted to clarify, grip is extremely important and foundational. It's just not one of the shooting fundamentals. I don't want anyone to think I am discounting grip and the importance of having a solid grip while shooting. It's hugely important.

The only reason that I bring this up is that I am seeing an accuracy complaint and grip recommendations to fix it. That's like fixing leaky sink pipes with duct tape instead of tightening things back up with a wrench. It's going to help, but it's not going to take care of the underlying problem. Grip allows for better gun HANDLING, but it does not impart accuracy. Using a vice like grip can reduce the effects of a flinch, but it won't take care of the root cause. Hence my recommendation is to focus on fundamentals, yet make sure your grip is solid at the same time. Just don't let your grip be the only focus because then you're simply duct taping those pipes.

You're forgetting stance as a fundamental transfer of energy to the ground. Grip is more important than sight picture unless we're talking about bullseye shooting and even then grip is very important. People with a good grip can slap the trigger and get good hits. I've never heard of follow through as a fundamental of marksmanship, but it is something that helps with shooting fast (grip is huge here too). How do you explain the importance of sight picture when firing bent eldow or from a retention position?  I would  suggest a large number of shooting errors can be attributed to the shooter's grip.

ETA:  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=li0rGtXh23I

Stance is a skill. You can't stand your way to accuracy. You're trying to apply the term "fundamental" to foundational skills when it is generally applied to marksmanship specifically. Again, you can't fix accuracy problems with grip. And what you're talking about with slapping the trigger with a solid grip is fixing broken pipes with duct tape. You are discounting the importance of trigger control because you can use a death grip as a crutch.

Trigger control is important, but it is often a bad grip that causes awkward pulls. The grip is established during the draw. If you screw that up it is difficult to correct once the weapon is presented. I don't know how you can suggest that accuracy issues can't be caused by a poor grip. Do you believe equal height, equal light is necessary too?

Are you referring to too much or too little trigger finger? Because that is, again, an issue of trigger press and not grip. Literally nothing you have said has contradicted what I am saying. And again, what I am saying is not something I came up with on my own. This is what you would find taught by most of the well regarded schools out there. Thunder Ranch, Tactical Response, Front Sight Academy, etc... I am only repeating what I have learned.

As for equal light and equal height, if you want to hit what you're shooting at regardless of what gun you pick up and consistently then yes. Especially when you aren't shooting up close. The fundamentals simply are the fundamentals and will make you a better shooter regardless of what you are shooting. Whether you argue against it or not doesn't change anything. The stuff that works, works. Not lining up your sights and trusting your grip to make up for poor trigger control is not a good way to train. It's recommending using techniques as a crutch to make up for other inadequacies. I can't stand by that, and I won't be changing my mind on it. Have a good grip, learn various techniques, but don't use them to replace the fundamentals I listed or you simply will not be as good a shooter as you can be.

Also remember the reason for the difference in fundamentals. It's nothing more than the bare things that will allow you to hit the target every time. EVERY TIME. That means when you're knocked on your back, not in a stance or a position that you get to pick perfectly. That also means when you're shot in the hands because they were in front of you holding the gun and now you can't keep that perfect grip anymore so all you can do is get a limp grip because you have fingers hanging off. What's going to save you? Fundamentals. Not your grip technique or your stance. Trigger press, sight alignment, and sight picture. Somebody ripped the duct tape off your sink pipes. What do you do?

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Train your fundamentals and let your techniques support them. Don't train your techniques in the hope that your fundamentals won't ever need to be that good.

Disregard. OP, focus on trigger manipulation and sight picture so you're not thinking of the gun going off.

I don't understand how you keep reading this into our suggestions.  

You won't hit anything without fundamentals.  Nothing makes up for poor fundamentals (trigger control, sight alignment).  However, there are other factors (some mental, some physical) that can interfere with the application of fundamentals, especially when you try to step outside your comfort zone and increase the speed of your hits.   The OP self-diagnosed an anticipatory flinch and relaxing the trigger hand is one way to lessen its involuntary effect on the shot.

I have borrowed a good post from Brian Enos's site, it has some great tips that may help.

I  figured out the tighter support hand/looser strong hand thing some time ago and it helped me considerably.

This is very sound advice above.

OP,

I am not trying to be a dick, but I am seeing a pattern here......

“I know exactly what I am doing wrong”
“Doesn't matter they all end up low left.”
“It's frustrating because it's as if the more I concentrate to not do something the more likely I becomes I do it.”
“That just reaffirmed what I already know, it's all about anticipation”
“Again it's just very frustrating to know exactly what I am doing wrong and focus with all my mental capacity to not do it......just to do the exact thing I told myself not to do”

Maybe the issue is, you don't know exactly what you are doing or that you are so focused on correcting what you perceive as your problem that you are creating new ones, frustration being one of them (Read as mindset).

If Bullseye shooting has taught me anything about pistol shooting, it is that "accurate" pistol shooting really boils down to 3 basic fundamentals; Grip - Sight alignment - Trigger control. When you master all 3 at the same time and "break the perfect shot" accuracy becomes "Precision". This is also referred to as developing a good mental game. This will translate to all levels of marksmanship no matter whether you shoot Bullseye or Combat, rifle, pistol, or shotgun.
Now your statements about "hitting low left every time". You really don't say how far low left? Your sense of low left may be different than other peoples. If I hit 2" low left on a USPSA target or popper, does it really matter as long as long I get hits? But, if I hit 2" low left on a 25 yard Bullseye target during Rapid or Timed Fire, I just screwed myself royally. This is referred to commonly as Combat accuracy vs. Precision Accuracy. Or something like that. Bullseye shooting for me has helped me to achieve a higher level of accuracy/Precision in other areas of shooting because I have a better understanding of how my grip and trigger control affect my sights.
Much of this is achieved through "coaching". I would highly recommend having a buddy or even your wife or girlfriend go with you to the range. Have them watch you and tell you what they see in your reactions. You can also video tape yourself or have them video tape you. Personally I don't find that to be the answer but it works for some.
Example:
My wife went with me to the Tenn. State Bullseye Championship 2 years ago. This is the first Bullseye match she had ever watched me shoot all the way through. I did not ask her to watch me or give me feedback. But between stages she compared me to the 120lb National Guard Female who was shooting in the lane next to me. She said there was a stark difference in how I reacted to a "Bad Shot" and that this female never reacted at all. She was like a stone wall through all 10 shots. What she was telling me without knowing what she was telling me , was that my mental game was off. I needed to focus on the shot I was taking at the moment and forget about what has already left the barrel. Once it is gone, its gone. Focus on the next shot and make it perfect.
Now this story was on the extreme side of course, but I wanted to explain the fact that when you think you have things figured out, you might actually not. You may be focusing your efforts in the wrong direction.

Damn that was long..... Sorry about that. Hope it helps though.

Personally I think your issue "may" be in Grip and Trigger control. You are so focused on not anticipating the shot that you are pushing the trigger left instead of straight to the rear (common of right handed shooters). You can have the Best Sight alignment in the world but it means nothing if you are pushing the trigger to the left as you break the shot.
Just my $02, hope it helps.
cp

P.S. please don't use that stupid pie chart thing that will likely be posted here very soon. If you start going by that thing you will be going from correction to correction for the next 10 years and achieve nothing. Worst coaching technique I have ever seen....... again. Just my humble opinion...

OP, maybe you anticipate and maybe you don't.

I'd say forget everything you think you know and start with a blank slate.  

The usual low-hanging fruit is grip and trigger control.  

They form a symbiotic relationship in pistol shooting.  Trigger control is the most important element, but a good grip can mitigate trigger control errors in the same way a poor grip can aggravate trigger control errors.

My suggestion is to watch every video Ron Avery (of Tactical Performance Center) has on Youtube.  Every single one.

Jerry Miculek also has a good handgun basics video.

I'd recommend you pick up this book from USPSA 5X National Champ Ben Stoeger.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/1533397716?tag=vglnk-c102-20

Send me an email if you have specific questions, I'm happy to help and I know a thing or two about pistol shooting myself.  

Ok, first suggestion...

PICK ONE. It is now your primary shooter. Let the others rest for a while and use JUST one pistol. Pick the one you like the most. For trigger control issues. I would suggest the 1911. The single action short pull trigger will be easier to correct the behavior. Once you're proficient with it THEN start shooting one other till you're proficient in that one as well.

The other people here have given great advice. The above is my recommendation. Fear the man with one well used firearm. HE KNOWS HOW TO USE IT.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.  I have read and re-read each post and have lots of stuff to digest.  I like the concept of hitting reset and act as though I am about to shoot a pistol for the very first time.  I will watch as many videos on fundamentals as I can find, forget past frustrations, stick with one gun and make myself a student.  Its refreshing to hear I am not the only one with such issues.  In my LGS everyone who works there shoots dime size groups at 100 yards with one hand.  

I know right?

good luck OP
cp

You need a good instructor.  Find one.  

Back in the day when I couldn't shoot a pistol for shit, I sold my semi-auto and bought a single action revolver.  Then I took my time and learned to shoot.  I eventually bought another semi-auto and the fundamentals were then in place.  Sometimes watching a video can help too.  Hit the youtubes. 

I have battled a recoil anticipation flinch forever. I try to compensate for recoil.
When my timing is on i shoot really fast and accurate enough when i'm off i cant hit a 10 inch plate

What i have to make myself do is focus purely on the front sight and grip pressure.

I like how he explains it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li0rGtXh23I

An old saying from Bob Shula (Coach of the Miami Dolphins).  Practice perfection ensures game day performance.

Everyone has the opinions.   But, in the end it you are the jerk (meant in fun) pulling the trigger.  All these incessant
depictions of proper grip amuse me.  70% off hand / 30% or push pull or 100% off hand / 0% trigger hand.
How do you measure those percentages?  What you need some good basic instruction hands on!  The money
you pay for the training will not be wasted reinforcing bad habits by doing a little of this and little of that.
I know what 100% and 100% feels like but nothing in between!
While some don't like it, the MagPul Dynamic Handgun DVD's has section on grip and effects of recoil with various "Grips".
Nothing more can be said.  Proof is on the target!


Good fundamentals transcend any firearm.  
Breath
Relax
Aim
Squeeze/Slap The Trigger


Sort of like reading the back of a
shampoo bottle for instructions.....  
Wet Hair
Massage in shampoo
Rise Hair

I've gone straight to shooting fast and picking up the fundamentals as I go.  

I own a bunch of 1911's, a 686, and a cz p-01.


Managing he trigger on the last two is much easier for me and my group size is much smaller, talking like 3" at seven yards vs 9" for the 1911.  For some damn reason that trigger on the 1911 is much harder for me to master.  With the other two it's a travel and then bang, da on the revolver and say on the cz.   The 1911 there is no travel so I just jerk it.

Somethings I have learned since starting to shoot USPSA.

Grip is important, With out a good/ proper grip, anything else is worthless info.

The phrase "focus on the front site"....its a half true statement. It is more like, Front sight, rear sight, target, front sight.
Is the front in the proper place in the rear notch, is the combo on the target?


If you are having flinching problems, and IMHO, most do, do really slow trigger pulls. I mean take 20 seconds to walk it back.
Do that enough and  the flinching/anticipation will hide for a while.....then when it shows up, do it again.

Where is your finger on the trigger? Too much? too little?
Where is your support hand, is it "as one" with your strong hand?


Hitting left or tight, while two handing hit?
Try shooting one handed, see where the round impacts. Now grip with the support hand, where does the round impact?
If not where you wanted, what changed?


Shooting pistols good or above average is HARD, rifles are much easier.
Master the pistol and everything else is easy.

IMHO, learn with a good set of sights. If you are running OEM Glock, S&W, and all the other med. priced pistols, go get a set of Dawsons, or something...anything but OEM. Except the big dots, they suck.(JMHO).



I am not the best by any means....to be honest, I suck. BUT, If I do my part like I know how to do, I can place in the top 10% of any USPSA match I shoot......well.... one stage any how. the other 5-8....LOL, below the middle.

I have it, I just cant keep it in one sock

One thing I like about the shop I work at is that I shoot before my shift at least twice a week. Members see that and most the other employees shoot too. I think it's a great way to show that we are not 100 yard dime shooters. Exaggerating can only keep customers around so long

Don't worry bout sticking to one gun.

If you are focused on the front sight, pressing that trigger straight to the rear, it won't matter the gun.

+1
Correct
Cp

Explain this "tighter support hand/looser strong hand" method ...
Are you talking about your trigger hand being support hand?

The trigger hand is the strong hand. If you grip too hard with that hand, it's puts tension on the trigger finger.

Thank you couch doggy, you have helped me greatly.

seek professional pistol instruction.

Its been hinted at all through this thread, but the SME's are out there to help you. If you are motivated enough to actually do it and not just post about it on arfcom. 

I'll add in .02¢; coming from a shooter who has been in the same boat. Probably still working my way out of that boat. So, I'll try to lend a hand and pull you out with me, lol.

First, hats off to the members here for truly tying to help. Other places, there's a tendency to disparage and belittle anyone who doesn't shoot one-hole groups or use the right gear. It's bad for the gun community, and is incredibly counterproductive. Well done arfcomers!

There is a lot of great advice in this thread. Of all the really good shooters I've been around, I can definitively say that sight picture and trigger control are where it's at. Regardless of the other elements, good shots can be put on target if those two items are present. Getting great will involve other fundementals, but the foundation is in those two simple things.

Now, in spite of being told the importance of these two things, it's easier said than done. Every shooter process things differently. There are some commonalities, but what makes something "click" in ones' mind will vary wildly.

This is where the bountiful advice in this thread comes into play. I would narrow down a list of suggestions that make sense to you at face value, and then try them one at a time. I'm sure that as you read through the suggestions, certain ones probably stuck out at you. Instances where you read the comment and thought, "Wow, that makes sense." It's important to find a method that aligns with your natural cognitive tendencies. It doesn't necessarily make one suggestion better than another.  Again, it's about finding what works for you.  

For me, I always thought the issue was trigger control. It was to a certain extent, but sight picture really is what put me over the top. I'd always thought, "My sight picture is pretty good. I'm focusing on the front sight.  I just need to quit slapping/jerking/flinching."

I bought a co2 BB gun and decided that I'd really work on my trigger press. It's not the same as a real firearm, but better than dry fire in some regards. There's no recoil, but it does introduce an audible element; and with a comparable timing in relation to firing an actual pistol. The report isn't nearly as significant, but it's better than nothing. It at least conditions the brain to expect a "blast".  

Well, pretty quickly I learned that trigger control was not my problem. I'd always thought that I was focusing on, and tracking the front sight. The BB gun really exposed that as very innacurate belief. In reality, I was actually trying to focus on the front site AND target; more so the latter. What I thought was a flinch or jerk problem was actually me trying to "guide/steer" the round to my target.

So, I switched gears and turned all my attention to the front sight. It was almost a "mind blown" moment when I finally experienced legitimate focus on the front sight. I almost couldn't believe that I'd been doing it wrong for such a long time.

From there, I just kept practicing and practicing until it became natural. Just staring at the front sight and trying to keep it as stationary as possible as I made my way through the firing cycle; never allowing myself to lose focus. The difference is night and day.

I honestly think this problem I uncovered is the true source of frustration for many shooters who believe they're jerking and flinching. But, it's one of those things that's hard to understand until the shooter actually experiences true front sight focus.

How you mentally get to the point of really focusing on the front sight may be different than what worked for me. What I can say is that it's glaringly obvious the minute you figure it out.

Ultimately, this might not be your problem.  But the way you described your situation is extremely similar to how I felt before figuring things out. If it is the problem, it'll be very obvious once it finally "clicks".  

Good luck, and make sure to share your knowledge when you figure it out.

I'm pretty late to this party, and you've already gotten a lot of good advise, but I thought I would throw this in there.

You mention that you have practiced a lot, but what kind of practice do you do?  Something I see all too often at the range is some person dumping boxes of ammo into one target at one range and ending up with something that looks like it came out of a shotgun.  Once you have more then a couple holes on the target, you are getting almost no usable feedback from that target.  Get yourself a couple packs of 3x5 note cards.  Cheapest and best target there is.  Easy to find, just need a little tape, and low and behold, it simulates the hardest target you would ever shoot at with a defensive handgun - the ocular cavity.  Set up 5 or 6 of them on your backer and put them at 3 yards.  Just start with keeping 5 rounds on one note card.  Ok, you can do that.  Cool.  Now go to five yards.  Now seven, etc.  Then start working on strong hand only, weak hand only etc with the same process.  When you can keep them all on there weak hand only at 3 yards, 7 with both hands will feel easy.

One other tip I didn't see - with you vision think about what you are looking at throughout the shooting process.  Sight alignment is pretty well understood.  But most of us naturally close our eyes when the gun goes off (there's an explosion happening in your hands!) and then try to look at the target and see what we hit (referred to as "eye sprinting").  Consciously try to watch the front sight rise out of the rear notch and settle back into it during the firing process.  Maybe even see the spent casing get ejected.  Any time you catch yourself eye sprinting you almost certainly flinched.  Keep your visual focus on that front sight, and your mental focus on the trigger press.