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Posted: 4/2/2002 3:42:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2002 3:43:27 AM EDT by sig_230]
Although I like my semis jess fine, I feel every bit as comfortable with one of my revolvers and a couple moon clips or speed loaders of ammo. How about the rest of you? Dose a revolver give you that same warm and fuzzy feeling?
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 3:59:21 AM EDT
For plinkin' a single action is great. A DA revolver is a viable defensive weapon in the hands of someone who can speed reload the cylinder as fast as I can swap mags in an auto. I cant imagine I could, in a stressful situation, so I stick to what I'm comfortable with. To me, a magazine is a neater "package" than a speedloader too, IMHO. I've heard die hard auto lovers say..."the revolver became obsolete in 1896" Thats a bit much?
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 4:53:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 5:54:38 AM EDT
In a single word, NEVER. I like them both, but I think research will prove that armed handgun encounters are mostly solved with fewer than six rounds. I carry a 3" model 13 S&W in winter, a 45 ACP in warmer weather. Like em both.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 6:34:27 AM EDT
Unless you`re going to be in a extended firefight......otherwise six rounds of 357 ready to use is PLENTY...........
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 11:37:06 AM EDT
I think I'm going to buy a .357 for carry. I normally carry a Glock 19 with 16 rounds, but I feel fine with a revolver. I carry 16 rounds in the Glock because I can...I didn't buy the Glock for the mag capacity.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 11:45:24 AM EDT
There are not many circumstances where I can't carry my SP101. The same can not be said for a high-cap semi. If I need more than 5 rounds of .357 Hydra-Shoks, something has gone severely wrong. At that point I probably need a long gun anyway.
Link Posted: 4/2/2002 2:13:39 PM EDT
Superior tactics will often overcome Superior firepower.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 10:31:54 AM EDT
People who don't think highly of revolvers probably need to fire one. You always hear debates rage about caliber effectiveness but they're usually about various semi-auto calibers (9x19, 40S&W, 45ACP, etc). I haven't heard too many people questioning the effectiveness of .357 Magnums in their full power loadings. So no, I don't feel undergunned with a 6" Dan Wesson loaded with 125gr. Gold Dots.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 2:10:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 2:47:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:
Superior tactics will often overcome Superior firepower.



Got to ask what this meant? Which side of the discussion does this come down on. Jess curious, you know.
Link Posted: 4/3/2002 3:12:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I am not convinced of the effectiveness of .357 out of a snubby,



And that's why I qualified my reply by stating the barrel length. You chop enough barrel off and just about any handgun cartridge will become ineffective. The Rem. 125gr. JHP is rated around 1400 fps from a 4" barrel. Anyone know what it rates from a 1.5" barrel?
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 4:48:11 AM EDT
I don't feel underguned, and I'll tell you why. First, as it's been already pointed out, you are unlikely to need even the six shots in a revolver to defend yourself. Secondly, as it's also been pointed out, skill is what's important. I compete once in a while in IDPA. One day I shot the competition with a 4" Colt Police Positive and no speedloaders!. I had to reload each round of ammo loose, and carried them in my pocket. I still beat over half of the shooters there. All of them were armed with autos. Sure, I'm not exactly a novice with a wheelgun, but I was mildly suprised that I could beat about 14 folks with a six-shooter and loose rounds in my pocket.

No, I'm not undergunned.

Ross
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 7:20:08 AM EDT
Not to be construed as a revolver put down, I am just more comfy with an auto for companionship. Also working in the less ritzy part of the city where crack dealers frequent, I'd rather not have to open a cylinder when I can still be spittin' lead. Plus, gangs dont always travel in groups of 6 or less. That is why I choose what I do. And regardless of type, I usually hit what is aimed at. OK, nobody shares my opinion, thats all it is, for sake of discussion.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 8:30:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By anothergene:
Not to be construed as a revolver put down, I am just more comfy with an auto for companionship. Also working in the less ritzy part of the city where crack dealers frequent, I'd rather not have to open a cylinder when I can still be spittin' lead. Plus, gangs dont always travel in groups of 6 or less. That is why I choose what I do. And regardless of type, I usually hit what is aimed at. OK, nobody shares my opinion, thats all it is, for sake of discussion.

There are, no doubt...situations where auto`s are a better choice.....sometimes I carry the officer`s....simply because it is simple to drop and reload....but generally...the 66 is what I have....as long as I feel confident with my ability.....
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 1:08:27 PM EDT
Not in any way, the 637 is in the inside coat pocket snuggled in a Kramer pocket holster with Federal Personal Defense in the wheel. I'm using this thing for personal defense not combat in a war zone. Very few gunfight's have gone over 3 round's according to statistics I've read and was taught as a leo. Just my $.02
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 1:38:15 PM EDT
I love my little .357 snubby. Although most of the time I pack around my Colt Defender, when I know I am going to be rolling around in the mud and getting filty I strap on my Smith. Of course I don't encounter many criminal types in my job--both weapons are more than enough to stop the occasional rabid puppy, rampaging antelope, or overly amorous bulls in pursuit of my @ss.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 2:09:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2002 2:10:35 PM EDT by Avalon01]
Revolvers remind me of old people and black and white westerns.

Semi-auto for me.

Av.

Edited for the smiley. Don't want anyone getting offended.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 4:49:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 4:50:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Avalon01:
Revolvers remind me of old people and black and white westerns.

Semi-auto for me.

Av.

Edited for the smiley. Don't want anyone getting offended.



Hey, that's why they make chocolate and vanilla. If you feel good with it, go. I "B" qualified with a custom Caspian, and love (read that really love) autos. However, I know several that will shoot the pants off the auto with a rev. They are not old or western and they are black OR white.
Link Posted: 4/4/2002 6:55:49 PM EDT

First, like many I shoot and enjoy both wheelguns and pistols. In all the years I have been shooting I have NEVER had a wheelgun malfunction, every time I pull the trigger there has been an immediate bang; I have several pistols and I carry an MK9 frequently, but still have have more confidence in my SP 101. the last thing I need in a life threating situation is to have to go through a jam clearing procedure.

Yes, auto loaders have higher capacity and faster reload capabilities, but relability issues are in the revolver's favor.

K.I.S.S.
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 12:31:01 AM EDT
I'll agree that I've never felt "undergunned" when I'm carrying. Anything. Proficiency with each weapon, revolver or autoloader, is key for me.
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 3:28:32 AM EDT
The reason that I started this thread stems from one on another forum. The particular forum may remain nameless but it is a site that caters to folks that own Semi-autos almost exclusively. In fact, almost all of the regular members had never even shot a revolver. The general attitude was like that expressed above, revolvers were for old folk and them that like black and white movies.

I was able to help convince several of them to go out and try one. Every single person that tried one had the same reaction, "Where have you been hiding these things?" and, "Why didn't you say they were this much fun sooner?".
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 3:35:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:
Superior tactics will often overcome Superior firepower.

Why not both? I always keep a revolver handy, just to stay in practice. I am not anti-revolver, but would rather clear the unlikley jam at round count #17 than try a panic reload after #6. Also, what happens if you get a squib? The revolver goes Kaboom, while the auto merely quits.
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 4:17:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By anothergene:

Originally Posted By SGB:
Superior tactics will often overcome Superior firepower.

Why not both? I always keep a revolver handy, just to stay in practice. I am not anti-revolver, but would rather clear the unlikley jam at round count #17 than try a panic reload after #6. Also, what happens if you get a squib? The revolver goes Kaboom, while the auto merely quits.



Why do you say a revolver would go KB with a squib?
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 5:38:42 PM EDT
Placement, Placement, Placement! One well placed shot with my .44mag Vaquero, and not too many things are going to get up and walk away. For old folks, huh? There is a whole new(old) world out there you need to explore! I have found that I can draw and fire twice with my Vaquero, in almost the same amount of time it takes to draw and double tap my 92fs; and the Vaquero is on par with accuracy. You want penetration, and expansion......ya.
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 6:33:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/5/2002 9:51:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2002 9:54:34 PM EDT by DBrewer842]
Gunfight, gunfight, damn, it sounds like your all taking on the whole red army on your own. One question how many people are you trying to shoot. If your just one on one and can't get the job done with a 6 gun, you ain't going to live anyway. And for most of us hand gunners here I doubt could live threw an attack by 3 or more gun men/women anyway. At 25 yards if you cannot speed shoot a 1 or 2 foot pattern you really need to practice with a handgun. I am a bad shot at speed shooting but hell I can get all six into a kill ring on a human body or head at 25 yards. So I feel just as confident in my skills to defend myself with a 6 gun or hi-cap semi-auto. Its a pointless argument, but one that I will bite at and say just because you spit more lead, doesn't always mean you got the advantage.

Dave Dee
NRA/ILA Member
AR15.COM Moderator of Reloading, General Firearm Discussion & Hunting Forum.
A great place to get answers to your reloading & hunting questions.
Or come and take a look at my web page at.
members.aol.com/dbrewer842/dbrewer842.html
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 6:33:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 9:15:56 AM EDT
There is an old trick to a firearm. For serious shooters, it a must. You must become one with the firearm. Pulling the trigger when on target should become reactive. If you have to think about pulling the trigger. Your aim will be affected. Also you should be able to draw your weapon from the holster, blind, meaning that you should not have to look at your gun or holster to get it out. Same goes with your Mag pouches or Speed Loader pouches. Train yourself to keep an eye on your target or down range. I find that myself when I am having bad days at the range is that my mind is not thinking of the basic rules to handgun shooting but is worrying about grip or trigger pull. I shoot much better when I have no one watching me than when I have friends and family watching. Why? Easy I worried not only that I might miss, but more so I worry about safety. So I keep looking to the side and back to make sure no one is getting in the wrong area and endangering themselves. I have watched a duel off between a 1911 person and a SW double action w/ speed loader. They both shot the same score and their time was almost the same. The double action revolver shot just every bit as fast as the semi-auto did. When it came to reloading both looked to be just as fast. The best thing for any person is if you get a chance go to one of the competition shoots. You have a great time, you learn a few things and most of all you start to see first hand were the myth ends and reality take over. Try to go to one that uses stock guns and not race guns. Race Guns are fun, but most of us will probably never own one. Like the old argument which is better a 9 mm or 45 acp, well if you shoot something in the head between the eyes. It wont matter, it will be just as dead with either cartridge. Don't fall into the argument trap of FPS or knock down power. Specially with handguns, because you find with most handgun cartridges to gain muzzle energy with a heaver bullet you lose FPS and when you gain FPS with a lighter bullet you start to lose Muzzle Energy. Remember handguns by nature at close range weapons. Yes, I know you can take a handgun toss on a scope, sight it in at 100 yards and your able to hit with it. But you find many handgun Cartridges was designed around a 25 to 50 yard target engagement. With a scope or adjustable sights you can always increase the range, but on a ballistics chart watch the numbers drop, and they do drop off fast. Remember when reading manufactures notes, they will glorify any and all performance just to sell their product. This goes with both the firearms and the ammo.

Dave Dee
NRA/ILA Member
AR15.COM Moderator of Reloading, General Firearm Discussion & Hunting Forum.
A great place to get answers to your reloading & hunting questions.
Or come and take a look at my web page at.
members.aol.com/dbrewer842/dbrewer842.html
Link Posted: 4/6/2002 11:39:45 AM EDT
Dave Dee

Drop off at just about the square of the distance
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 8:09:37 AM EDT
Hehehehe, my bed gun, (the 29 Smith), easily outguns my carry gun, (10mm Glock).
One is a big frame hand cannon that almost needs wheels under it, the other is a nice compact flame spitter that fits in my purse.
Would take quite a bit to outgun me, whether I am in bed asleep, or out on the street.
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 2:42:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hannah_Reitsch:
Hehehehe, my bed gun, (the 29 Smith), easily outguns my carry gun, (10mm Glock).
One is a big frame hand cannon that almost needs wheels under it, the other is a nice compact flame spitter that fits in my purse.
Would take quite a bit to outgun me, whether I am in bed asleep, or out on the street.

WHEW!......"the most powerfull handgun in the world"............
Link Posted: 4/9/2002 5:04:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2002 5:07:27 PM EDT by sig_230]

Originally Posted By Striker:

Originally Posted By sig_230:

Originally Posted By anothergene:

Originally Posted By SGB:
Superior tactics will often overcome Superior firepower.

Why not both? I always keep a revolver handy, just to stay in practice. I am not anti-revolver, but would rather clear the unlikley jam at round count #17 than try a panic reload after #6. Also, what happens if you get a squib? The revolver goes Kaboom, while the auto merely quits.



Why do you say a revolver would go KB with a squib?


Allow me SGB. If you are involved in a gunfight there is a very high probability that you won't hear or notice the difference when you have a squib load. Which means you will fire again...KB.



Now that makes even less sense than the initial statement. Squibs don't happen with semi'S or semi shooters have better ears, or you can't fire a semi after a squib or ...? Come on.
Link Posted: 4/14/2002 7:20:10 PM EDT
Nope, my primary home, car, summer carry and winter carry pistols are all different revolvers.

If I was going into combat (and didn't have a nice M-4) I would choose one of my semi-autos but if I need to bet my life on the pistol going bang it's going to be a revolver.

My Beretta 92FS and Springfield Armory 1911A1 have never done serious wrong but the .45 wouldn't feed 10 JHP in a row without jamming if my life depended on it. A third generation Smith and Wesson 5904 has been retired after jamming once too many times without just cause.

If you can't get it done with six well placed shots you need more practice or a rifle. The purpose of a home pistol is to fight your way to 911 and a long gun. The primary purpose of a car or carry gun is to make the situation pause long enough to retreat. The pistol is normally a defensive weapon in the hands of a civilian - if I had to choose an offensive weapon it would be an M1 Abrahms tank, or pushed to a handgun a high-cap pistol.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 9:13:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sig_230:

Originally Posted By Striker:

Originally Posted By sig_230:

Originally Posted By anothergene:

Originally Posted By SGB:
Superior tactics will often overcome Superior firepower.

Why not both? I always keep a revolver handy, just to stay in practice. I am not anti-revolver, but would rather clear the unlikley jam at round count #17 than try a panic reload after #6. Also, what happens if you get a squib? The revolver goes Kaboom, while the auto merely quits.



Why do you say a revolver would go KB with a squib?


Allow me SGB. If you are involved in a gunfight there is a very high probability that you won't hear or notice the difference when you have a squib load. Which means you will fire again...KB.



Now that makes even less sense than the initial statement. Squibs don't happen with semi'S or semi shooters have better ears, or you can't fire a semi after a squib or ...? Come on.



Well, speaking from experience, a revolver locks up.

I had a squib load in my S&W 1917 .45 ACP once. The bullet lodged halfway into the forcing cone, and locked the action up tighter than (insert favorite simile here).

It was out of action until I could get it home and knock out the bullet with a dowel.

It was inconvenient but definitely preferable to blowing up an automatic.
Link Posted: 4/16/2002 3:20:25 PM EDT
Ken
you're sure right on there. A squib is totally independant of what your using, if a cartrige is going to sqib it will do so in a revolver or an automatic. That's what surprised me so. If you get a squib in Semi or revolver AND DO make that next shot it will be exciting.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 6:08:17 PM EDT
Maybe I wasn't as clear as I could have been...take any auto and any revolver, take one cartridge without much powder, insert it at random in each, rapid fire both. Guess what just happened? The auto quit with the bullet lodged in the barrel, no recoil to work the action (admittedly out of service) The revolver revolved the next loaded round behind the blocked barrel and fired it (also out of service, but much uglier). I seen it happen, almost, last week. Fortunately, rapid firing wasn't involved. Also check out the topic on AR15 about the Cincy mini riot...that is not a range or bedroom situation, its real as it gets. Shot placement, tactics, blah blah...toss the textbook and induce mass quantities of lead poisoning pronto! Granted, this is a SHTF scenario that may never happen in Hooterville but I'm not in Hooterville. While some will be reaching for the speed loader, I still have 9 or 14 rounds to go, very comforting to me.
Link Posted: 4/19/2002 11:41:23 PM EDT
Well, I know in most states you shoot someone that throws and egg at your car you get 25 to life. LOL some of you really kill me with how fast you desire or make yourself sound like you desire to shoot someone so bad that any little excusse is good enough. And yet you don't even think about what will happen after the fact.

Dave Dee
NRA/ILA Member
AR15.COM Moderator of Reloading, General Firearm Discussion & Hunting Forum.
A great place to get answers to your reloading & hunting questions.
Or come and take a look at my web page at.
members.aol.com/dbrewer842/dbrewer842.html
Link Posted: 4/20/2002 4:31:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By anothergene:
Maybe I wasn't as clear as I could have been...take any auto and any revolver, take one cartridge without much powder, insert it at random in each, rapid fire both. Guess what just happened? The auto quit with the bullet lodged in the barrel, no recoil to work the action (admittedly out of service) The revolver revolved the next loaded round behind the blocked barrel and fired it (also out of service, but much uglier). I seen it happen, almost, last week. Fortunately, rapid firing wasn't involved. Also check out the topic on AR15 about the Cincy mini riot...that is not a range or bedroom situation, its real as it gets. Shot placement, tactics, blah blah...toss the textbook and induce mass quantities of lead poisoning pronto! Granted, this is a SHTF scenario that may never happen in Hooterville but I'm not in Hooterville. While some will be reaching for the speed loader, I still have 9 or 14 rounds to go, very comforting to me.



Okay
Link Posted: 4/20/2002 4:53:12 AM EDT
Well...yeah....if I was comfronted by four gangbangers with (illegaly obtained) hi-cap "nines".....and I had my trusty little mod 36......guess I would feel...undergunned.....
Link Posted: 4/22/2002 10:02:29 PM EDT
DBrewer hits the nail on the head. If you have one or two opponents, a 5 or 6 shot revolver is quite sufficient to do the job. If you have more opponents than that and you can't get to cover, you're hosed, and all those extra rounds you've been lugging around aren't going to do you any good anyway. Undergunned with a revolver?? No way!
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 10:58:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/25/2002 10:59:31 AM EDT by hound]
Do all of you auto-pistoleros feel undergunned?
9-10-15-16?
I have a Ruger P and my two favorite mags both are thirties....get the picture?
I can either shoot all day or use the mag to prop my arm up......
Also this is my first post here Hi yall
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 2:46:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SGB:
Superior tactics will often overcome Superior firepower.



Rather you carry a Revolver with 5 shots or a Pistol with 17, it will be your TACTICS that will be the biggest influence of the outcome.

I am as completely comfortable armed with a revolver as I am with a Pistol as it is only the instrument, I am the weapon.
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 3:14:40 PM EDT
Hey hound, welcome to the fray! You came at a good time, a friendly debate, as you can see. I still think part of "tactics" is having MORE than enough shots to get you out of a bad spot, but that just my opinion.
Link Posted: 4/25/2002 5:31:59 PM EDT
I just like a pistol with magazines better.

I have four revolvers and use them for hunting and target shooting, but in a combat handgun only scenario, I would prefer a semi-auto with a pocket full of magazines.
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 8:32:49 AM EDT
Forgine my ignorance, but what is a "squib"?
Link Posted: 5/7/2002 10:36:09 AM EDT

Forgine my ignorance, but what is a "squib"?


squib = dud. [dud ] (plural duds) noun

1. shell that does not explode: a munition that fails to fire or explode

2. failure at something: somebody or something considered ineffective or a failure (informal)



Link Posted: 5/7/2002 11:31:58 AM EDT
Thanks SGB
Link Posted: 5/8/2002 7:51:45 AM EDT
Not a dictionary definition, I would say anything less than a full charge, for our purpose, leaving a bullet lodged anywhere in the weapon. A dead primer is a harmless dud. A live primer with no powder or little powder meets my definition of squib. I had a Fiocchi 9MM W/O a primer hole in the brass, THAT was a dud, but still locked up the Glock. The primer ignited, backed out, locking up the action. (In that case, a revolver may have been a better bet).
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