Chambered or Not - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Chambered or Not (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:53:29 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
All I have to say is to each his own. I know that I WONT be the one in prison with the REAL criminals when the prosecution proves that I did not explore ALL options before I killed a man.

No you will be the one bleeding out on the ground gasping in shock at how everything occurred in the blink of an eye and you never had time to react the way you thought you would.

Believe me, with the media the way it is any attorney would LOVE to put someone away for having a CCW and using it to defend himself. All they have to do is prove that there were other options available and if they determine that you pulled your gun out on the man like you were in the wild west with a shoot first ask questions later attitude it would be enough to put you away for homicide......ESPECIALLY if the assailant who you thought was armed had his car keys in his hand.

Don't get me wrong friend - I understand where you're coming from and I'm not here to insult you. The legal liability issue is terrifying. Especially if you live in a state that is unfriendly to gun owners.
But no matter what you do, if you shoot someone you'll be spending a lot of money on a lawyer and going to court.

Read and re-read your state laws and statutes. Be absolutely certain about what is considered a justified self defense shooting there and what is not. Go over possible scenarios in your mind and come up with plans for how you would deal with them. If you ever find yourself in a self-defense scenario you won't have time to think it over.

Bottom line if someone with any level of skill pulls a knife, club, whatever on you and actually intends to do you harm you will not have time to dial 911. You will not have time to talk them out of attacking you. You probably won't even have time to rack the slide. You'll only have time to react.

There are some excellent books you should read on legal implications of CCW as well as strategy. Gabe Suarez, Mas Ayoob, etc, etc. Let's see if folks can suggest some good ones for you. You should also consider taking a course.

Posted: 10/19/2004 7:54:36 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
<Sigh> It is sad to have to bring facts and reality into discussions like this, because it tends to get so many people so excited, but let's at least try it, OK? Let's look at history first. Historically chamber empty carry has been advocated by an overwhelming number of authorities/agencies in some pretty hostile areas, and there has not been much of a problem with it. In fact, until fairly recently, chamber empty carry was the normal, common way to carry an autoloading pistol, and there was not much of a problem with it. Some firearms (particularly but not exclusively older models) actually lend themselves to a more effective use with chamber empty due to atrocious trigger pulls, poorly designed safeties, etc. Depending on a persons lifestyle, in some circumstances it can make more senese to carry chamber empty. I find it sort of funny to see all these folks talking about how the gun is useless when carried chamber empty when there have been so many instances of the gun, carried with an empty chamber, having been used effectively.
For those who are so concerned about speed of presentation, as mentioned before that is going to be far more dependant on things like the holster design, where the gun is carried, and other factors nobody seems to get so worked up about. In reality for the chamber empty carry to matter the incident has to happen in an extremely short timeframe. If the incident occurs before you can draw and fire, it doesn't matter what the chamber condition is. If it happens after you have had the time to draw, chamber, and fire, it doesn't matter what the chamber condition. So the only time it will matter is if the incident occurs in that tiny fraction of time it takes to actually chamber the round. Let's assume that you can draaw and fire in 2.0 seconds. Let's assume it takes you 1/4 second to rack your slide. So any incident that occurs before a 2.0 second time the carry condition does not matter. Any incident that occurs after 2.25 seconds the carry condition doesn't matter.
The other argument, that one might not have both hands available, has a bit more credence, but only a bit. It is a fairly rare event that will start with only one hand available, and learning how to rack the slide one-handed should be as much a part of a gun carriers skills as shooting strong-hand only and weak-hand only.
So, while there is little need to carry chamber empty for most, given today's modern firearms designs, the person who chooses to do so does not put themselves at much, if any, disadvantage in real life.

Chamber loaded carry has indeed been mandated by military and LE forces the world over.

ALWAYS to the objection of the people on the front lines who have to deal with it.

Chamber condition DOES matter. Go to any good training facility in this country and convince the guys there in LE and military units that having an unloaded chamber is no big deal.

You won't get very far.

A fight is a situation where you cannot predict what will happen. Thus it makes heaps of sense to have the weapon you depend on to save your bacon in a ready to use condition.

Posted: 10/19/2004 8:20:13 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
An empty gun is nothing more than a club.

Posted: 10/19/2004 12:45:42 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
<Sigh> It is sad to have to bring facts and reality into discussions like this, because it tends to get so many people so excited, but let's at least try it, OK? Let's look at history first. Historically chamber empty carry has been advocated by an overwhelming number of authorities/agencies in some pretty hostile areas, and there has not been much of a problem with it. In fact, until fairly recently, chamber empty carry was the normal, common way to carry an autoloading pistol, and there was not much of a problem with it. Some firearms (particularly but not exclusively older models) actually lend themselves to a more effective use with chamber empty due to atrocious trigger pulls, poorly designed safeties, etc. Depending on a persons lifestyle, in some circumstances it can make more senese to carry chamber empty. I find it sort of funny to see all these folks talking about how the gun is useless when carried chamber empty when there have been so many instances of the gun, carried with an empty chamber, having been used effectively.
For those who are so concerned about speed of presentation, as mentioned before that is going to be far more dependant on things like the holster design, where the gun is carried, and other factors nobody seems to get so worked up about. In reality for the chamber empty carry to matter the incident has to happen in an extremely short timeframe. If the incident occurs before you can draw and fire, it doesn't matter what the chamber condition is. If it happens after you have had the time to draw, chamber, and fire, it doesn't matter what the chamber condition. So the only time it will matter is if the incident occurs in that tiny fraction of time it takes to actually chamber the round. Let's assume that you can draaw and fire in 2.0 seconds. Let's assume it takes you 1/4 second to rack your slide. So any incident that occurs before a 2.0 second time the carry condition does not matter. Any incident that occurs after 2.25 seconds the carry condition doesn't matter.
The other argument, that one might not have both hands available, has a bit more credence, but only a bit. It is a fairly rare event that will start with only one hand available, and learning how to rack the slide one-handed should be as much a part of a gun carriers skills as shooting strong-hand only and weak-hand only.
So, while there is little need to carry chamber empty for most, given today's modern firearms designs, the person who chooses to do so does not put themselves at much, if any, disadvantage in real life.

Posted: 10/19/2004 12:50:10 PM EDT

[#5]

I love how some of these guys think that a deadly force incident is something that occurs so slowly that you can negotiate your way out of it.

How many of you have actually had a gun pointed at you? I have. I promise you if I'd tried to call 911 or pull out a gun and rack the slide or any of that other silly bullshit, I'd be dead right now. The action took place at body contact range, and was over before any slide rackage would have been possible, even if I'd had a free hand to do it with.

Stupid, stupid, stupid..

Posted: 10/19/2004 12:56:22 PM EDT

[#6]

I still have the same avatar and plan to keep it.

God bless America for the freedom to choose an Avatar that I liked.

Posted: 10/19/2004 2:30:27 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do. Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself.

If a situation were to develop I would think/hope that I could talk the person out of attacking me. I would first of all call 911(I always carry my cell phone), while I am doing that I would be telling him to stand down and that I am armed. By doing this whoever is on the other end(dispacher) will be able to record my conversation of attempting to talk the person down. ONLY if the person refuses to cooperate would I pull my weapon out, and then rack the slide as a last chance for him to change his behavior and see that I am serious and have the power to stop his attack. To me, racking the slide and him seeing that I NOW have a round chambered would be the same as firing a warning shot in the air only better because firing a warning shot may not be a good idea in a certain situation.

So you don't have a CCW? Obviously, because you don't know anything about the application of deadly force. Why are you giving advice about something you know nothing about? Do you even carry a firearm, ever?

Posted: 10/19/2004 2:33:15 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
your right, I wouldnt want to argue with a guy who has 24+ posts a day on this website, looks like you may need to rethink about going outside once in a while

OK sniper boy (sniper that wouldn't dream of carrying one in the chamber, in fact), I am now going to have to break out the

tag.

Posted: 10/19/2004 2:37:29 PM EDT

[#9]

He acts like he'd have the balls to put crosshairs on an enemy soldier, who is probably a fine fellow and all around decent human being other than being on the wrong side, but he's all jittery about shooting some crackhead in the face.

Posted: 10/19/2004 2:45:09 PM EDT

[#10]

I carry CCW in my purse. There's no way for me to be able to rack the slide - if, God forbid, I should ever have to use my weapon, I plan to shoot through my purse. Therefore I must carry chambered.

Posted: 10/19/2004 3:30:09 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I carry CCW in my purse. There's no way for me to be able to rack the slide - if, God forbid, I should ever have to use my weapon, I plan to shoot through my purse. Therefore I must carry chambered.

A good plan. This is the reason there is a Smith 442 in my pocket. Because I stand casually with my hand in my pocket and look very nice. Nobody has a clue that the hand is on a .38 revolver that I can blast them with quite quickly should it become necessary.

I wonder too if the anti-chambered guys have ever been in a situation where they have had to defend themselves with a firearm. It seems unlikely.

Posted: 10/19/2004 3:35:29 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do.

Very true, lethal force is your last option. Hopefully situational awareness has kept you out of the attack. But if you are attacked you have already screwed yourself by not being fully aware of the situation. Predatory behavior can be spotted with some training, it shows in peoples overall behaviors, motions, and how they are posturing.

And if you are caught unaware of the situation you must remeber Action beats reaction almost all of the time. By the time you notice the attack, get a plan of action, get the weapon into action the attacker is all ready on you.

Situational awareness should already take care of the notice portion and end it before it starts. Shooting drills will help you react with a plan of action. But you want to have your weapon immediatly ready to put into action. Because your attacker already has a plan and weapon in hand. While you are chambering a round he is squeezing the trigger.

Quoted:
Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself.

Well depending on the DA they may drop charges or go all out at you. If you are attacked your immedate concern is to save your ass. Lawyers can sort out the rest later. There is a old saying amongst gun fighters "Better judged by 12 then carried by 6".

And if the Prosecutors brings up the fact your gun had a round chambered call the investigating officer to the stand and ask him how he carries his gun. He will say he carries it with a round chambered. And you as an armed citizen can make the argument you follow the exelent example for how to carry and judicously use a firearm that is set by the local police department.

And the fact that you racked the slide could be used to discredit the fact you had to use lethal force. If you were in such grave fear for your life you had to shoot why didn't you just shoot? IF you had time to rack the slide you had time to run.

Quoted:
If a situation were to develop I would think/hope that I could talk the person out of attacking me. I would first of all call 911(I always carry my cell phone), while I am doing that I would be telling him to stand down and that I am armed. By doing this whoever is on the other end(dispacher) will be able to record my conversation of attempting to talk the person down. ONLY if the person refuses to cooperate would I pull my weapon out, and then rack the slide as a last chance for him to change his behavior and see that I am serious and have the power to stop his attack. To me, racking the slide and him seeing that I NOW have a round chambered would be the same as firing a warning shot in the air only better because firing a warning shot may not be a good idea in a certain situation.

As stated above using lethal force can only be done if you are in reasonable fear for your life, and some states require you to flee the attacker before you ise lethal force. If you have time to call 911, have a chat with your attacker, and rack the slide the DA will say you had time to leave. And if you really did have time to do all that you should have ran. And if you shoot somone after doing that the DA will make the case you had time to leave before shooting, wheter or not is required by law.

Formal training would be best for you. But I would also like to suggest that you read "In the Gravest Extreme" by Massad Ayoob. That would be a good primer for any other training and give you a realistic view of self defense shootings. It would also be wise to find out what lawyer your local Fraternal Order of Police uses when one of it officers is investigated for a shooting, then buy some of his time and ask any other questions you might have about the legality of lethal force in self defense. After you shoot somone you will have a hard time picking a good lawyer will all the stress and a local lawyer who deals with these sort of cases would know your states laws and could better awnser your questions.

I am not trying to slam you here but you have the wrong idea about using lethal force for self defense and how to carry your gun. The ideas you have will get you killed on the street and if you are lucky enough to survive the District Attorney will rip you a new one in court. Because of instead of leaving you called 911l, had a discussion and shot a person, he will say it was escalation because you hung around. If you did what you described above.

Now I can awnser your questions in IM if you are worried about being flamed and I can loan you a copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" if you cant afford one. Just IM me.

Posted: 10/19/2004 3:50:10 PM EDT

[#13]

I'd like to be able to conceal carry, but I live in Wisconsin.

No concealed carryhanks

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:13:39 PM EDT

[#14]

why place yourself in a position to fail when you need it most.

High stress
Likely poor lighting
fumbling with a holster
drawing and racking the slide quickly.
High STRESS

How many times have you taken your time to rack a slide and eneded up having to give it a bump to go into battery. Try doing it in a panic with shakey hands and a BG in your face. In a valid self defense shoot you are not likely to have the luxery of time or distance to target. Didn't the FBI stats show something like under 7yards for the average shooting in a SD situation? The first round out of the mag is the most difficult to chamber and the most critical. In a shoot situation you do not have time to troubleshoot your weapon.

DRAW

FIRE

MOVE TO COVER

That is ALL you should be having to do if you need to do it.

Carrying a defense sidearm without a round in the chamber is stupid, without valid reason on 99% of modern fireams, and may very well get you or your loved ones killed.

Learn your weapon. Learn to use it properly and TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN.

If you can't trust the gun or yourself in condition one you probobly don't need to carry.

JMHO

mike

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:15:13 PM EDT

[#15]

Condition 1.

Good enough for Col Cooper, good enough for me.

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:19:44 PM EDT

[#16]

how the hell you gonna' chamber a round if your left thumb is in some dude's eye socket as he carves a big chunk of flesh out of you.... don't carry at all if you don't actually have the proper mindset to use it. it will just get you into trouble.

you'll be just as dead as if you didn't have a gun at all... but someone out there will now be in posession of it.

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:20:43 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
All I have to say is to each his own. I know that I WONT be the one in prison...

But all I know is I won't be the one in the dirt cause someone with a knife was able to close with me while I was trying to chamber a round.

Trial by 12> Carry by 6

But on the legal note, does the phrase "brandishing" mean anything to you?

Where I am, if you display a gun for defense in a non-lethal-force scenario, you commit the crime of brandishing.

Since if I pull my gun for any reason other than last line of self defense I open my self to that charge, I believe that carry with a round in the chamber is the way to go (Beretta Brig, 15+1, hammer down, safety off, just as safe, if not safer than, a Glock).

As others have put it so bluntly, I believe in carry with a round in the chamber because if I'm forced to clear leather, someone is going to die.

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:24:40 PM EDT

[#18]

don't feed the troll. Until he gets some valid training and actually learns how his weapon functions and it's proper use it's not worth the wasted effort.

Here is some advise SEEK PROFFESIONAL TRAINING IMMEDIATLY. If not, go ahead and do whatever you want.

mike

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:24:51 PM EDT

[#19]

shooting him could still be the last option you tried without the added time of racking the slide
all calling 911 will do is get your body found a little quicker

Quoted:
I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do. Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself.

If a situation were to develop I would think/hope that I could talk the person out of attacking me. I would first of all call 911(I always carry my cell phone), while I am doing that I would be telling him to stand down and that I am armed. By doing this whoever is on the other end(dispacher) will be able to record my conversation of attempting to talk the person down. ONLY if the person refuses to cooperate would I pull my weapon out, and then rack the slide as a last chance for him to change his behavior and see that I am serious and have the power to stop his attack. To me, racking the slide and him seeing that I NOW have a round chambered would be the same as firing a warning shot in the air only better because firing a warning shot may not be a good idea in a certain situation.

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:28:01 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
why place yourself in a position to fail when you need it most.

How many times have you taken your time to rack a slide and eneded up having to give it a bump to go into battery.

ditto

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:28:27 PM EDT

[#21]

1 in the pipe +1.

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:32:46 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
If I ever have to draw, its going to be seroius and somebody is going to die. If life is not on the line, the gun stays put. I'm not going to bluster, bluff or threaten. If I pull it, I'm shooting and if I'm going to be shooting, I need to be ready. Adding in the step of racking a slide seems like a very bad idea to me.

Bingo....

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:35:11 PM EDT

[#23]

bullshit
even in liberal Erie County in ultra liberal NY won't prosecute lawful use of firearms by CCW holders
one case was about a year ago. store owner shot would be robber. then last month

www.wben.com/newsroom/fullstory.php?newsid=02166

Investigation of Robbery Death Continues
WBEN Newsroom - Sunday, September 26, 2004 08:05 AM

Buffalo, NY (WBEN)- Buffalo Police are still reviewing the circumstances surrounding the Friday Night shooting at an East Side Social Club.

Witnesses say gunplay ensued when two teens kicked in a door at the Smoke Shop on Genesee Street, and then fired their guns for effect.

A patron at the club, licensed to carry firearms, shot back and killed 16 year-old Dwayne Rodgers. It is believed that Rodgeres accidentally shot his cohort, 16 year-old Zontail Warren. He was hospitalized for his wounds.

The only charges pending are against Warren, who faces a robbery rap with perhaps more charges pending. The patron who shot Rodgers will NOT be charged.

caps on NOT added by me

Quoted:
Believe me, with the media the way it is any attorney would LOVE to put someone away for having a CCW and using it to defend himself.

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:36:38 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I still have the same avatar and plan to keep it.

God bless America for the freedom to choose an Avatar that I liked.

and we are also free to think you are a dork.

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:38:37 PM EDT

[#25]

serious question here for you guys that adamantly oppose condition 1 carry.

Where did you get your training and how much experience do you have with your sidearm?

Not trying to get anyone flamed just trying to get a grasp on where some of you got some blatantly bad information.

mike

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:40:38 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
bullshit
even in liberal Erie County in ultra liberal NY won't prosecute lawful use of firearms by CCW holders
one case was about a year ago. store owner shot would be robber. then last month

www.wben.com/newsroom/fullstory.php?newsid=02166
Investigation of Robbery Death Continues
WBEN Newsroom - Sunday, September 26, 2004 08:05 AM

Buffalo, NY (WBEN)- Buffalo Police are still reviewing the circumstances surrounding the Friday Night shooting at an East Side Social Club.

Witnesses say gunplay ensued when two teens kicked in a door at the Smoke Shop on Genesee Street, and then fired their guns for effect.

A patron at the club, licensed to carry firearms, shot back and killed 16 year-old Dwayne Rodgers. It is believed that Rodgeres accidentally shot his cohort, 16 year-old Zontail Warren. He was hospitalized for his wounds.

The only charges pending are against Warren, who faces a robbery rap with perhaps more charges pending. The patron who shot Rodgers will NOT be charged.

caps on NOT added by me

Quoted:
Believe me, with the media the way it is any attorney would LOVE to put someone away for having a CCW and using it to defend himself.

Also worth noting - had the CCW holder not shot so quickly, the gun-toting thugs could have quickly reclassified him from "scared sheep" to "armed threat" and fired. If you CCW, you should only pull the gun when you have already made up your mind to pull the trigger.

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:44:00 PM EDT

[#27]

I will say it again.

If you don't trust yourself to shoot without hesitation and don't trust your sidearm to condition 1. you are NOT ready to carry.

mike

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:44:52 PM EDT

[#28]

Round in the chamber, cocked and locked HK. I feel very safe with it - carrying without a round in the chamber is tactically UNSOUND. If you are worrying about ADs or, forgive the pun, "jumping the gun" to shoot somone, then you shouldn't be packing, need some training or confidence, or need to do something about your mode of carrying (like buy a holster).

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:45:52 PM EDT

[#29]

Cocked & Locked & was mentioned before " Read Cooper "

Posted: 10/19/2004 4:50:21 PM EDT

[#30]

Condition One. Accept no substitute.

Posted: 10/19/2004 5:52:05 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do. Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself.

If a situation were to develop I would think/hope that I could talk the person out of attacking me. I would first of all call 911(I always carry my cell phone), while I am doing that I would be telling him to stand down and that I am armed. By doing this whoever is on the other end(dispacher) will be able to record my conversation of attempting to talk the person down. ONLY if the person refuses to cooperate would I pull my weapon out, and then rack the slide as a last chance for him to change his behavior and see that I am serious and have the power to stop his attack. To me, racking the slide and him seeing that I NOW have a round chambered would be the same as firing a warning shot in the air only better because firing a warning shot may not be a good idea in a certain situation.

When I first read this, I thought it had to be sarcasm... Dude, in your fantasy does the thug have a megaphone and announce his intentions to attack you from a couple of hundred yards away? Perhaps he politely gives you a ring on that cell phone beforehand? If not, I don't possible see how your proposed course of action is even remotely possible. If you have the time to do all of the above, I would suggest that your safety was never in danger in the first place. We aren't talking about situations where some toughguy is giving you the eye cause he thinks you looked at his girl.

And letting a (potential) attacker know you are armed prior to drawing is not a good idea - a person's actions towards easy prey could differ dramatically than when he knows he's confronting a threat. Whereas he may be content to knock "easy prey" over the head and take your cash, by letting him know you are armed, you've basically just keyed into the old fight for flight response, and potentially "forced" him in the direction of lethal force. Of course, the "flight" decision is a possibility, but I'd rather be as ready as possible when flipping that coin. Obviously, you force the same choice if you drew w/o warning, but at least you aren't several steps behind - talking on your cellphone.

Posted: 10/19/2004 5:52:51 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
If you don't carry with one in the pipe, you obviously doubt choice of CCW and/or your skills.

If that's the case, you need to re-think your kit and/or train harder.

If you carry one in the pipe, and can't fathom why anyone wouldn't , you lack training and need to re-think why you rest your hammer on a full chamber.

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:06:51 PM EDT

[#33]

What's the use of carrying if you have to rack the slide before you can get your weapon into the fight?

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:11:23 PM EDT

[#34]

You shouldn't rest your hammer on a loaded chamber if you are carrying a single action. What's your point?

Quoted:
Quoted:
If you don't carry with one in the pipe, you obviously doubt choice of CCW and/or your skills.

If that's the case, you need to re-think your kit and/or train harder.

If you carry one in the pipe, and can't fathom why anyone wouldn't , you lack training and need to re-think why you rest your hammer on a full chamber.

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:15:23 PM EDT

[#35]

Cocked and locked....

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:15:50 PM EDT

[#36]

Condition 1

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:15:55 PM EDT

[#37]

IF YOU ARE AFRAID OF YOUR WEAPON YOU HAVE NO BUISNESS CARRYING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE

If you Aren’t confident and competent then leave the pistol at home.

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:18:30 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Condition One.

That is all.

Yep

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:24:04 PM EDT

[#39]

I cannot believe that this thread has made it to 4 pages !

ffsparky26: Even though it used to be common for people to carry handguns ( I have seen both revolvers AND semi-autos done this way ) with a empty chamber, with todays modern designs there really is no need for the sake of safety.

On the other hand, IT IS DEFINITELY s severe disadvantage to have a empty chamber when confronted by a bad guy VS having a round chambered when confronted by a bad guy.

I DO HAVE A CARRY PERMIT AND I ALWAYS CARRY WITH A ROUND CHAMBERED

Msokol13: If you do not have a carry permit you should not have given any advice on this subject, period. There are many threads on ARFCOM that interest me and sometimes I have a opinion about what I would do but I DO NOT post because I have no real experience with these certain topics.

If I see a topic that I do have experience with ( like this one ) then I will chime in.

Since you have already mentally prepared yourself on what to do know you need to practice these techniques with a friend that will honestly help you discover the errors in your thinking.

REMEMBER ! Make sure unload ALL the rounds from the firearm as well as the magazine just in case someone inadvertently inswerts the mag during the exercise.

Before I close my post may I ask you why you have decided against getting yourself a carry permit at this time ? When do you think you might decide to get a permit ?

LB

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:35:57 PM EDT

[#40]

1911:cocked and locked
Glock 19:cocked and unlocked

S&W 642:loaded
If you trained with drawing and chambering a round it may be ok,but it's not for me.

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:37:43 PM EDT

[#41]

If it ain't cocked, locked AND chambered, I don't carry it.

Posted: 10/19/2004 6:54:02 PM EDT

[#42]

I just have to post after reading all this... If you find the need to draw your firearm, you better be shooting. When you get to that point when you need to brandish force, it's too late, shoot. The goon will not give you a warning. He won't sheath and unsheath his knife, he's not going to let you take out your phone and start calling, so you should give him the same opportunity. If you draw and he stops in his tracks, that might be different. If you decide to carry without a round in the breech are you expecting a guy to run at you screaming like a suicide bomber so that you can pull out your gun? No sorry, doesn't happen. If you think that you can run the self defense flow chart when there's a feigning crack head ready to shank you, I'll send flowers to your loved ones.

Posted: 10/19/2004 7:37:59 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

I have a glock 22. But if I was going to get my CCW I would get a Glock 36, and NOT carry one in the chamber. My reasoning, shooting someone would be the last thing I would want to do. Why you ask? Well, If I am ever brought up on charges for killing someone I will be sure that they don't think that I am a pistol packing lunatic that wants to walk around killing people. There will also be no question as to me using my firearm as a last ditch effort to defend myself. .

Posted: 10/19/2004 7:38:42 PM EDT

[#44]

So, do you guys that carry unloaded guns carry dull blades and a knife sharpener?

Same deal: "Excuse me while I sharpen my knife before I can cut myself out of this rope you tied me up with..."

Posted: 10/19/2004 7:42:29 PM EDT

[#45]

You have a few SECONDS in a real life gun fight.

Take a TACTICAL HANDGUN COURSE from a REAL TRAINER and see what happens.

I took one recently with a combat veteran from this board. (Vietnam LRPP)

He brought a Para double action 1911.

He sold it after the class.

Too slow on the trigger recent. Fast, but not fast enough.

SPEED = LIFE in a gun fight.

Posted: 10/20/2004 5:01:17 AM EDT

[#46]

I work at a hospital in south west florida and the night before last I had replyed no to this subject.
That night I went to work and about 11:30 pm I had a call up on the 8th floor where all the trouma patients are. They said they were loosing vacuum in the system so that usly means they have some open vacuume lines they are not using just laying open. So I started going around to all the rooms checking things out.

I Came into this one room where there was two patients in the room I checked the first one . Every thing was ok. Went around the curtin to check the next patient out and his head was all wraped up in bandages and was bright red in blood. I looked down at the floor and there was a large puddle of blood just under where his head was laying. I went into the hall and told the nurse what I had just seen.

Well this is what she told me.
This boy is 21 years old and he and some of his friends frome work were cooking out with there familys when he brought out hi glock to show his friends. He droped the mag out and handed it to his friend. His friend held it in one hand side ways and pulled the trigger.

The bullet hit the 21 year old boy in the side of the head. I gess he allso forgot he liked his guns with one in the chamber.

They kept putting blood in him trying to save him but it kept somming out as fast as it went in.
He was allready gone when I seen him.

I'm not trying to tell you guys how to keep your guns !
I just ask that if you keep it one in the chamber that you remimber it's there !

Thanks !
Gator

Posted: 10/20/2004 5:25:32 AM EDT

[#47]

what's the point of walking around with an unloaded gun??

Posted: 10/20/2004 6:18:36 AM EDT

[#48]

Darwin at his finest.

If you're too fucking stupid to a) know whether your gun is loaded and b) go around pointing them at people you don't want to kill, you deserve what you get. No sympathy here.

Quoted:
I work at a hospital in south west florida and the night before last I had replyed no to this subject.
That night I went to work and about 11:30 pm I had a call up on the 8th floor where all the trouma patients are. They said they were loosing vacuum in the system so that usly means they have some open vacuume lines they are not using just laying open. So I started going around to all the rooms checking things out.

I Came into this one room where there was two patients in the room I checked the first one . Every thing was ok. Went around the curtin to check the next patient out and his head was all wraped up in bandages and was bright red in blood. I looked down at the floor and there was a large puddle of blood just under where his head was laying. I went into the hall and told the nurse what I had just seen.

Well this is what she told me.
This boy is 21 years old and he and some of his friends frome work were cooking out with there familys when he brought out hi glock to show his friends. He droped the mag out and handed it to his friend. His friend held it in one hand side ways and pulled the trigger.

The bullet hit the 21 year old boy in the side of the head. I gess he allso forgot he liked his guns with one in the chamber.

They kept putting blood in him trying to save him but it kept somming out as fast as it went in.
He was allready gone when I seen him.

I'm not trying to tell you guys how to keep your guns !
I just ask that if you keep it one in the chamber that you remimber it's there !

Thanks !
Gator

Posted: 10/20/2004 6:37:46 AM EDT

[#49]

Food for thought:

recently (some may remember the thread) I pinched a nerve in my left arm.

My left arm still works, but is in varying levels of pain at all times, and is not fully functional....I have 95% of the full range of motion, but maybe 50% of my strength in my left arm/hand.

Try racking a slide in a hurry like that.

Now, ask yourself...what if the 'fight' you're preparing for (hypothetically) were to start out with a crippling blow to one of your arms or hands?

It's a highly likely situation, otherwise, there wouldn't be so many one-handed drills.

I want a defensive weapon to work even if I only have a thumb and forefinger to work it with. End of story.

Posted: 10/20/2004 6:43:37 AM EDT

[#50]

They violated the Basic Rules of Firearms.

I would never drop the trigger on a weapon before I checked the chamber, but I wouldn't have handed over that weapon w/out a chamber check in the 1st place.

Quoted:
I work at a hospital in south west florida and the night before last I had replyed no to this subject.
That night I went to work and about 11:30 pm I had a call up on the 8th floor where all the trouma patients are. They said they were loosing vacuum in the system so that usly means they have some open vacuume lines they are not using just laying open. So I started going around to all the rooms checking things out.

I Came into this one room where there was two patients in the room I checked the first one . Every thing was ok. Went around the curtin to check the next patient out and his head was all wraped up in bandages and was bright red in blood. I looked down at the floor and there was a large puddle of blood just under where his head was laying. I went into the hall and told the nurse what I had just seen.

Well this is what she told me.
This boy is 21 years old and he and some of his friends frome work were cooking out with there familys when he brought out hi glock to show his friends. He droped the mag out and handed it to his friend. His friend held it in one hand side ways and pulled the trigger.

The bullet hit the 21 year old boy in the side of the head. I gess he allso forgot he liked his guns with one in the chamber.

They kept putting blood in him trying to save him but it kept somming out as fast as it went in.
He was allready gone when I seen him.

I'm not trying to tell you guys how to keep your guns !
I just ask that if you keep it one in the chamber that you remimber it's there !

Thanks !
Gator

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Chambered or Not (Page 2 of 4)

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