For those who have their panties in a wad over a DA first shot, the HK USP can be carried cocked and locked just like a 1911 for a SA first shot.

Had a USP 45, decided it was over-rated.  I traded the USP for another Sig and was pleased.

Then one day I bought a Glock and haven't looked back. Then I bought a Glock 20 (10mm) and decided it was the greatest overall pistol available.  

Beauty is a blued Browning Hi-Power.  For everything else there is a Glock 20.

I've had hands-on w/ many models/caliburs from my military/law enforcement days. Always come back to ol' slabsides. Get out there and test them out. Find friends, neighbors, anyone willing to let you try their favorite. Don't make decision based off testimonials alone. Everyone has their own personal favorite.

Glock makes guns?

I thought they only made shovels.  Damn, I learn something every day.

I will invite anyone to meet me in the Ft Myers Florida area and run torture test on personal guns my Glock G21 against anybodys autoloader, if I lose I will buy dinner and drinks.  My G21 has been through hell that would at least equal what one would find on a battlefeild and nevery failed.  If it fails I will publiclly recnt any and all statements I have ever made about Glock handguns, I will not put it up in the accuracy department, not because of the gun, but because of me I havent been shooting on a regular basis and when I dont my pistol shooting declines rapidly.  There is a range in Naples that has private shooting bays that would lend theirself nicely to torture testing. I also know a shooter that I would put money on against anybody on thus board his G17 against any Sig or HK

Quoted: Glock makes guns? I thought they only made shovels.  Damn, I learn something every day.

They make a knife too, great for throwing into stumps.

Quoted: Quoted: Glock makes guns? I thought they only made shovels.  Damn, I learn something every day. They make a knife too, great for throwing into stumps.

My heart!  It can't stand the stress of this illuminating news!   My God; I learn so much from this Board.
Oh yeah:

Stand 30 yards down from my G19 and see what the hell happens, Swiss chesse mother fucker!!

M4SS109,

Sorry for the smartass (hijack) remarks.  I couldn't resist.

The best tactical pistol is first and foremost the one that you shoot the best.
With that established, search for the best quality you can afford.

You have listed 3 manufacturers (Sig, Glock, HK) and one style (1911) of pistols.
Sig, Glock, and HK make outstanding pitsols.
There are many great manufacturers of 1911 style pistols, to include, Hilton Yam, Wilson Combat, Kimber, et al.

Personally, give me a quality 1911; Yam, Wilson, Kimber, et al.
Sigs are great, but I don't like the DA first shot.  And I don't like people telling me to "decock."
HKs are fantastic - I just wish they would build a single stack USP.  I think the HKs are the toughest.  Think not?  Lodge a bullet halfway down the barrel, then fire a live round.  KABOOM??  Not in HKs tests, which are available on line.
I despise Glocks (There's a shock, eh?)  They are great guns, but I can feel the frame flex when I shoot (45), a trigger is only supposed to have one piece, and those "new" finger grooves don't come anywhere near providing comfort for me.

Best of luck in your search.

EDIT: Vote #39 for the 1911.

Quoted: Stand 30 yards down from my G19 and see what the hell happens, Swiss chesse mother fucker!!

HAHA!  The Swiss cheese will be you as I fire up the sewing machine.

EDIT:  The Sewing Machine:

OK. Stop baiting the Glock owners, you know how defensive they get. We'll never hear the end of it.

Quoted: I will invite anyone to meet me in the Ft Myers Florida area and run torture test on personal guns my Glock G21 against anybodys autoloader, if I lose I will buy dinner and drinks.  My G21 has been through hell that would at least equal what one would find on a battlefeild and nevery failed.  If it fails I will publiclly recnt any and all statements I have ever made about Glock handguns, I will not put it up in the accuracy department, not because of the gun, but because of me I havent been shooting on a regular basis and when I dont my pistol shooting declines rapidly.  There is a range in Naples that has private shooting bays that would lend theirself nicely to torture testing. I also know a shooter that I would put money on against anybody on thus board his G17 against any Sig or HK

I take it you didn't think much of the test done by Larry Vickers ?
As I said, I have owned glocks and sold them because of ergonomic reasons not failures.
You have received a ration of shit because you proclaimed that HKs and SIGs "Suck Big Time" and that glocks are of divine inspiriation.
You can rationalize your glock worship any way you choose but don't try and tell us that HKs and SIGs "suck big time".
There are an awful lot of real world operators who use HKs, SIGs and 1911s who would disagree with your assessment.

I've got 3 of the 4 listed... (in .45acp)

prefrence:

1911A1
Sig P220
HK USP45f

Quoted: I will invite anyone to meet me in the Ft Myers Florida area and run torture test on personal guns my Glock G21 against anybodys autoloader, if I lose I will buy dinner and drinks.  My G21 has been through hell that would at least equal what one would find on a battlefeild and nevery failed.  If it fails I will publiclly recnt any and all statements I have ever made about Glock handguns, I will not put it up in the accuracy department, not because of the gun, but because of me I havent been shooting on a regular basis and when I dont my pistol shooting declines rapidly.  There is a range in Naples that has private shooting bays that would lend theirself nicely to torture testing. I also know a shooter that I would put money on against anybody on thus board his G17 against any Sig or HK

If I were in FL I would take this bet, and let you pick whether it was my 226 or 225 that we played with.  Not because I think they are better than a Glock, but shooting all day (I doubt any of the guns would fail) and then getting a beer is fun.  

shooter

You can't beat a reliable 1911.

No cheapo knockoffs, go for the best, and it will treat you right.

Not to mention, you could carry 10 rounders as backup.  I knew a fellow who did that.  (Not that I could with my love handles)


- BG

Quoted: I will invite anyone to meet me in the Ft Myers Florida area and run torture test on personal guns my Glock G21 against anybodys autoloader, if I lose I will buy dinner and drinks.  My G21 has been through hell that would at least equal what one would find on a battlefeild and nevery failed.  If it fails I will publiclly recnt any and all statements I have ever made about Glock handguns, I will not put it up in the accuracy department, not because of the gun, but because of me I havent been shooting on a regular basis and when I dont my pistol shooting declines rapidly.  There is a range in Naples that has private shooting bays that would lend theirself nicely to torture testing. I also know a shooter that I would put money on against anybody on thus board his G17 against any Sig or HK

It seems to me that torture tests are a poor way to select a handgun.

What you want in a handgun is something you can carry a lot, get into action quickly, and then quickly and accuractly hit several targets.

A good drill would be "El Presidente", or, if the shooter isn't into drawing you can modify the drill as needed. With multiple shooters and no timer, one-on-one duels against knock down targets would be good.

I think standard IPSC targets, bowling pins, or relatively large steel falling plates should be used -- we wouldn't want targets that turn it into a presision bullseye competition. The range should be no farther than 10 yards, perhaps 5 yards or 7 yards.

There should be no alibies--if your weapon jams and you loose--you loose. IMO, that's the way reliability should be tested--as a secondary thing. The point of the handgun is having on hand a quick, accurate, and decisive weapon. Reliability is important, but the focus should be on the key attributes, and reliabilty only is an issue when it impacts the key attributes.

Also, I think it would be best to try out new shooters with different handguns, rather than rely too much on old salts. I know that I've done best with 1911s, and due to the grip angle on Glocks I am definitly slower with them. If we had a group of newbys who could compete with the different types and we could time it accuratly, that would tell us something. In any case, shooters should switch and use different types of handguns.

For the individual, the goal would be to see how well he would do. From a bigger perspective, the goal would be to see what handguns tend to win the most often.

In a way, it would be like ISPC in the old days, except kept simple and basic to test the most basic skills and tools. I'd suggest no courses of fire requiring more than six rounds, just so revolvers can compete on an equal field. If you can shoot El Presidente better with your Python or your S&W model 25 than with your Glock or 1911, then you are probably better off with the revolver than the auto, despite the extra rounds in the mag.

Edited to add: all pistols would have to start in a proper carry condition. For DAs that can't be carried cocked and locked, that means hammer down.

But Sigs and HKs really do suck big time   I will concede they are quality made firearms, but they're are not as well suited for rapid fire engagement, multiple hits on multiple targets In my opinion (which is all that counts right?) The finish on a Glock is far tougher than a USP I know this for a fact having seen the results with my own eyes....... to protect the innocent (or stupid) we will call the two participants in this story Dumb Ass1 and Dumb Ass2

In the HK incident Dumb Ass 1 was climbing into Dumb Ass 2s car when there was a very loud clanking sound rang out, Dumb Ass1 had failed to secure a thumb strap on a loose fitting shoulder holster and his brand new HK USP 45 had fallen out onto the sidewalk, which produced several large dings and a numerous scratches HK was 72 hrs old.

In the Glock incdent Dumb Ass2 was riding in the back (butt hanging out over the side fender) of his own Jeep as Dumb Ass1 was driving, Dumb Ass2 had failed to snap the thumb strap down on a cheap uncle mikes belt holster Dumb Ass1 ran over a large pot hole on a gravel road the resulting bump shook Dumb Ass2's G21 out of the U M Sidekick and flung it down the gravel road at a rate of 45 MPH,  Dumb Ass2 set and watched his G21 skitter and bounce down the road wondering WTF fell out of my Jeep until he relized his holster was empty.... anyways the G21 was all scuffed up with white marks and covered in dirt but after whiping down with an oily rag the damage was barely discernable.  The G21 suffered no mechanical damage and little damage to appearance and the loaded round in teh chamber did not discharge.

In the Event I ever decide to fire 2 bullets out of my handgun at once I will make certain I buy an HK USP for this. If I wanted a large offensive handgun to be used primarily with a supressor and NVDS I wouldnt mind a MK23 Mod O

And if I could afford a Sig P210 and it didnt have a heal catch for a mag release I would own one

These conversations are always interesting Not too long ago I was in a similar perdicament. I was torn between USP and Sig 226. I decided to go with the USP full size and haven't been disappointed. I liked the fact I could carry it cocked and locked. Its a darn good gun and much more accurate than I am. All those guns listed in the poll are quality. Find a dealer and feel of them all and shoot them if possible, you'll find a winner.

Quoted: these are the pistols Im interested in buying. Im leaning toward a Sig226R in 9 or 40 but wanted more input.

That is an EXCELLENT choice for a full-sized combat pistol.  I am assuming you are looking for a combat pistol, not a Concealed Carry Weapon, yes?

Get the P226 in 9mm. You wont regret it. Ammo is easy to find/get; it is accurate right out of the box; It's a Sig, what else do I need to say?

Buy a glock. Make up the difference between the price by buying a few thousand rounds of ammo!

I have narrowed it to two pistols;
Sig226R (stainless) in 40 cal and 9mm replacement barrel
1911 SA, Kimber or Wilson

I dont like polymer guns so the glock and HK are out.
Also the Sig and 1911 fit my hands better then the HK or Glock.

What 1911 is recommended and what mods should be made?

anti-polymer gun lover............

Springfield 1911 "loaded" models.
forged frame and slide
features that total hundreds of dollars are "standard"






Kimber's are over-rated.

Edited to add over-priced as well.

Quoted: Kimber's are over-rated. Edited to add over-priced as well.

On 6 Oct 01, I boughtt my Classic Custom NIB for $577.00 (plus tax) from A.J.C. Sports, Clute, Texas, 1.979.265.4867.  

I would take it to war.

Yes, I have the receipt right here...

In a 1911 all you really need is a good trigger and a robust adjustable sight, not to big for precision
not to small for speed.  Maybe find what style of grip safety fits your hand, and a flared magzaine well cant hurt anything.  Other than that leave it alone.

My gunsmith told me to buy a Glock. He is mostly right. I cannot point one but would only own Glocks if I could fire one without hitting the ceiling at our range. If you can pick one up, point it at your target, look at the sights [ ] and if it is pointed where you pointed it, this is your best tactical pistol. G-17 to start, you will not go wrong. If this does not work, Sig 225 / 228 will work. I do not reccommend HK's, that would be someone elses suggestion, and obviously there are many on this topic. For me it is overpriced 1911's, if they were cheap, they won't be by the time they will compete with the above.

glocks are good except i dont like the way it feels like a 2x4 and the kaboom stories.

i have a uspc .357sig and i love it

sigs are like the caddy's of tac pistols imo, very nice but not for me

the nice 1911's are very classic and work well, but i cant justify paying over a grand on a pistol.

They're all good weapons. Although I don't like the H&K's trigger at all.

There's nothing like a 1911 .45

She's been me sweetheart for a long time.

Hey VF143Falcon ...

Totally understandable on your thoughts of "over a grand" for a pistol.

My $400.00 Colt 1911 .45 with ever so slight mods has served me well for 19 years now.

However ... My Les Baer TRS (over a grand) is something I'd feel very comfortable with.

The way I think of it is ... when is it too much money for a weapon to have a "high degree of probability" to function all the time?

Most important ... you pull the trigg ... it goes BOOM!

No pun intended

haha yeah,

the way i think of it is a 100 dollar 9mm will kill someone just as good as a usp or kimber 1911 or sigp229, but the question is how good you want to look doing it... and how comfortable you are practicing with it.


meh, i love my usp except for the pinapple grip starts to get my hand raw after the fourth box of ammo. but other than that its accurate and fits me well. no complaints...

I haven't seen any mention of the STI or SV weapons here...any reason as to why?  They are a wide body, three piece construction.  I have a couple of them, and they are the best 1911 (actually 2011) weapon that I have used.  They are concealable, and have the capability to have double stack mags.  I know a lot of operators (mostly independent ones) that trust their lives to these tools as well.

YMMV.

IO1

ETA:  There's nothing wrong with the BOLCK Tupperwear line of guns...I am still looking for the G28 (er...that WOULD be a full auto compact...if they made one).

They are all good.

I am hoping Glock will come out with a sub compact 50 BMG Glock 50C model (you would have to have a compenastor on a 50 bmg pocket gun)

In the spirit of continuing the controversy, may I suggest the Walther P99 in .40 S&W.  Great ergonomics (especially for a left hander), adequate stopping power, reliable (3000+ rounds with no malfunctions), natural pointing, accurate (as in IPSC production class), and an overall nice weapon.  I guess its in the eye of the beholder, and how well you shoot it!

DB

Quoted: I am still looking for the G28 (er...that WOULD be a full auto compact...if they made one).

Actually, the 28's just a blowback .380.  Practically non-existent in the States, though.

Quoted: Quoted: I am still looking for the G28 (er...that WOULD be a full auto compact...if they made one). Actually, the 28's just a blowback .380.  Practically non-existent in the States, though.

Heres your full auto sub-compact glock 26.

Quoted: Probably because the doublestacks are mostly well over a grand, and hi-caps are still rare & expensive.   Their single stacks are nice but there is an awful lot of competition in that niche. Quoted: I haven't seen any mention of the STI or SV weapons here...any reason as to why?  They are a wide body, three piece construction.  I have a couple of them, and they are the best 1911 (actually 2011) weapon that I have used.  They are concealable, and have the capability to have double stack mags.  I know a lot of operators (mostly independent ones) that trust their lives to these tools as well.

I still place STI single stacks up higher on the totem pole than most other 1911's in its class.  I can get them for around $1k.